Wandering if my marriage is over

[Acreativeusername]

Married 20 years.
long term selfish lazy husband- much better over last two years
long term inability to understand my emotions… dismissive, patronising, questioning of them
some effort over last year to spend time together
marrige counselling was pointless as he didn’t take much on board and I essentially paid to bang my head against a brick wall
he acts like a child mostly in a crisis/ argument with teenagers - he sticks up for them / thier view of “it’s not fair”
we argue a lot
he seems to have two personalities
can’t manage his own emotions as in gets angry if other people are arguing , gets moody if someone else is in a mood- rather than helping them
couldnt think of any thing in marriage counselling he wanted me to do differently … until we argue then will throw random stuff at me , like a child “
well you do the same”
so defensive
oh gosh this is awful …. He’s sometimes really sweet and sometimes, sometimes reflective when everything has been exhaustedly explained
will sometimes but me flowers offer me drinks offer meal out
I can’t cope with the push pull
Can’t imagine a life without him … but can’t work out why
he tells me “I’m not going to change”
I have no confidence in some ways …
I wander what life would be like with some one else…. But not sure anyone else would like me or may have a 100 worse qualities than husband
worried worst time ever as have gcse and children
they won’t forgive me for chucking out a lovely daddy
tried just disengaging - works to a point - wandering if achievable over the next 4 years?
please go easy …. This sounds brutal …. But I genuinely need advice or info from those who have been there.

What are you still getting out of this?.

Do you really think your children think he is a lovely daddy?. I would think not, at the very least they are seeing all too clearly how he has and does treats you and in turn them. Apology flowers etc do not cut it at all and is also a tactic in the arsenal of the abusive man.

There is no point whatsoever in you two being together now and trying to further disengage whilst you are all under the same roof is impossible. Make the break sooner rather than later. Another 4 years of this will break you completely as well as further emotionally harming your kids. What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. This is no relationship model to be showing them.

HE is not good enough for you, not the other way round. Stop believing the crap he tells you to keep you in your place. I would also urge you to talk to Womens Aid and seek legal advice because knowledge is power.

If you can bear to stay with him while your children do their GCSEs, perhaps that's what you should do - just on the short term. Then sit down with him and tell him the marriage is dead in the water and it's time to make some big decisions about the future. You've been with him 20 years - do you want another 20 years, even 30, 40 years of this shit?

Thanks for your messages …. Can I ask what makes him sound abusive you ?

I should add I’ve never felt so angry in my life….. I shout at him a lot…. He tells
me to work out where my anger comes from and asks if it was my upbringing …it wasn’t perfect but I think I’m a good enough for sure mum and my anger comes from a teenager speaking rudely and me shouting ( no swearing back … to discipline … not perfect but who is?!) then adding in his tantrum as “ why are you shouting at each other my life’s so shit”
then denies saying it

Hmm
in response to what am I getting out of it …
sloght hope that it may change but think it’s gone too far as don’t feel that attracted to him anymore - which is heart breaking
erm… some predictability if I’m completely honest… scared of unknown and impact on others
scared of making a mistake
scared the issue is me and I’m stubborn
Scared I can’t do any better

You've got just one life, op, don't live it like this. What a waste that would be.

I think he treats you like shit because he doesn't believe you'll end the marriage.

It’s not you, it’s him. Marriage counselling unsurprisingly was of no real use to him either. All this man cares about is him.

Do not get bogged down in your sunk costs.

Your existence with him would indeed be predictable going forward I,e more of the same from him towards you and in turn your kids. Do not do this to yourself and in turn them.

Why would you be scared of making a mistake if you were to leave him?. Feel the fear and do it anyway, the unknown is nothing to be scared of.

Thank you much to think about in all the responses …. Can I ask what other people’s men are like ( sorry to sound so lame) because o gather most are useless?

Firstly, he doesn't sound abusive. People are very quick to throw around that concept. It is very possible to be a bad partner but not abusive.

Secondly, I would absolutely not decide to divorce bang in the middle of GCSEs. It's a pivotal time for your child and I would let them get them out of the way before flipping their world upside down.

No once can make this decision for you. It sounds like you want more than what your husband is willing and able to give. Whether you'll find that or not is obviously a gamble, for some, relationships work out great, for others they struggle to find a compatible life partner.

I don't think you should go into a divorce thinking about wanting a better husband. You should go into a divorce needing to be rid of your current one and accepting that an alternative may be being single for quite some time.

Do you spend a lot of time together?

Do you both work? If so, can you sit down and agree a better split of household tasks? Maybe once he's pulling his weight more you'll start to see more of his positive features.

I personally don't think it's fair to judge him for not liking to hear you scream at your teenager or be a bit moody when others are. Moods are contagious naturally and personally I wouldn't like shouting in my household either. Stern words, raised voices, maybe but no yelling at each other.

Thank you appreciate your time also

I dont think i understand, i hear what your saying about selfishness and lack of emotional support but you said he has been better over the last two years and now you want to leave? Is it because his behaviour changes a lot?

yes I feel I can’t trust him….
one day really nice …
next day fine until there is anything that isn’t perfect, then he becomes unpredictable… swears kicks stuff about … huffs sulks silent treatments

My husband is wonderful and nothing like yours, and there are many, many lovely men out there. My dad is another wonderful man, so I grew up knowing what a "real" man should be like. My bar has always been set very high, and sadly, far too many women have a very, very low bar. Due to your experience, all you can imagine is a man like your husband.

Oh bless you that’s so lovely 🥰 I hope you show him the message you just wrote about him x

Amd I think that the reason why, despite ‘improvements ‘ over the last few years, still emotionally unavailable and quick to blame…. It’s taken a lot to get the progress that has been made… so many arguments and heated discussions tears and heartbreak to get there …. Basically it’s death by a thousand paper cuts and I can’t be hurt any more I think 🤔

So he sounds like a bit of a man child to be honest. But I believe people do not fundamentally change, think back to when you last 'changed' and what prompted that. Some do grow up and develop into different people but underneath it all the same person is there unless they have intentionally worked hard or gone through a transformative experience.

Sometimes there needs to be a line in the sand where you say enough is enough & I think you still need to define where that line lies.

I can understand this OP… I was at the zoo a while ago and saw several double fathers taking kids (they can’t all have been gay couples given the volume of kids), taking them out for the day, no mums in sight. It really struck home. I won’t go into the reasons why but I remember thinking I wonder what it’s like to have a “hands on” dad. Like someone who wants to be with their child, take them places, bath them etc.
And what must it be like to have a nice hug and love from someone when things aren’t great or when things go right not throwing a tantrum to make themselves object of the hour.
fear holds us back - only you can make the change and it sounds like you need to

Thank you…. We have no external support and I used to cry to him to help me have a break, take them out for an hour…. It never happened … I resent him so much

Yeah, I hear you OP!

4 years is a long time if you're miserable every day of it, thats 1460 days of feeling down. Your children will understand and it sounds like they'd benefit from a seperation from him.
He's already tried therapy and hasn't changed enough to improve things.
Read this thread back over a few times in the next few days, try to look at your situation as an outsider would.
Disengaging in the same house is v difficult and will affect you more than him.
Cut free now. I'm in a similar situation, ds doing gcse's next year, but I'm going ahead with seperation as I feel overall, not ideal, but it's better for all of us.
You deserve better.

Sorry to hear you're going thru this. Abuse takes many forms and he uses emotional blackmail alot which sounds exactly like mine. I've been with mine 17 years and I knew from the start it wasn't right but after a succession of awful men, he was the best i could find and he does have some good qualities. But he can be a right arsehole and we've had some blinding rows! We have one DC who's 8 and the triangle we have only works if we really try and tbh if I ignore most things and carry on. The thing that really irks me is he's never wrong and if I call him up on things, he will turn everything back onto me..that causes the blinding rows.
I can't leave him. I even married him! I don't have money for divorce or anywhere to live. I tell myself we're fine and I love him. I have no choice.
I really hope you find a solution and wish you every bit of luck going forward.

My DH is exactly like yours.
This week he's shouted at me to fuck off during dinner, text me to say 'fuck you', told me there's something wrong with me, and said I'm over reacting because I pull him up when he blames me for everything. Feeling hopeless and fed up too.

If you want to leave then when?
Gcse year honestly, compared to the options is not bad - because next is A levels - much more important.
And after that is Uni. Just don't be the dick who waits til their kids have left home then ruins their uni first year by revealing their childhood as a sham and they were just waiting til they left home to divorce. That really does mess people up!

Thank you so much to think about here. Thank you foe sharing your thoughts and sorry to hear some of your experiences.