Divorce- NPD

[Contentmentchaser]

I adore him, we have 3 very young dc, however I’ve been gaslighted the whole relationship, despite therapy for his narcissistic personality disorder it hasn’t changed, I can’t do it anymore. However, I’m a SAHM, no savings, no self esteem and don’t even know where to start. We’re both devastated. On the surface we have a brilliant marriage, good sex life, make time for each other, gorgeous kids, gives me lie ins after a bad night with the baby etc.. But he makes me feel lonely, he won’t admit any hurt he causes, twists everything that I’m reacting out of order etc..

Has anyone else been in this situation where you absolutely love the bones of them but they’re hurting you so badly and making you doubt your own reality the majority of the time?

He wants to try marriage counselling however I can’t help but think it’s just to buy more time because despite his current therapy going well to him it’s only made him aware of his disorder but not actually made any effort to change his behaviour towards me and he’s still as reactive.

Yes
Mine is an alcoholic
Absolutely will not give up the drink
So we are now divorcing when we both don't want to
Life it much less stressful now however and I know it's for the best

I couldn't stay with someone like this.

Thank you both.

I think I feel it’s such a waste of mutual love and adoration, family, mortgage, shared life!

Part of me is so angry, so guilt ridden, so
worried and finally so bloody sad.

Yep
That's what I keep saying to him
Such a bloody waste
But we can't change them
I get pretty angry sometimes too

Ah @fedup078 im so sorry. I’ve never told a soul about our troubles, I have therapy this afternoon (it’s been disguised as PND) and I’m now going to drop the bombshell that I’ve been putting up with this for years in the session, I’m not even sure how to tell her or if I’m even ready to address it but I keep thinking, it’s a safe space and although sad and embarrassing as it is for me, I hope it’ll help.

do you have someone supporting you?

Was his NPD diagnosed by a psychiatrist?

@Contentmentchaser I'm the opposite I tell everyone who will listen
Would it help if you wrote it down and gave it to the therapist at the start of the session rather than having to verbalise it on the spot?

Never go to counciling with a narcissist. Its a well known rule. They will simply twist everything and use the therapist to further manipulate you. He will also know this if he is a diagnosed narcissist. He will likely have been advised that counciling as a couple is not recommended.

See about individual counciling for yourself. Ideally with a woman councilor who has experience of working with domestic abuse victims. It might also be worthwhile for you to do the freedom program. And Google trauma bonding because I suspect that is what you are experiencing.

Op once you truly know what having npd encompasses...you'd realise there was nothing to love. He isn't real. He is just a collection of parts he has stollen from other people. Characters he plays to disguse the fact that he is actually completely empty...Well, besides hate, anger, cruelty and contempt.

You need to stop looking to the person who is causing your pain to heal it. That will never happen. Because he doesn't want you healed. He wants you to hurt. Think about that for a moment, is that someone you should have anywhere near you? Let alone as a partner? Do you want yo kids to grow up thinking relationships should be this way?.A source of pain.

Therapy doesn't fix npd. Often all it does is teach them how to hide it from the outside world better. But you as a partner will always be hurt by him. He cannot be cured because h is not sick. It is not a mental illness. It is a personality type that is so horrific that it has it's own name.

Npd is a side step from psychopathy. If he had told you he was a psychopath, would you stay? Because narcissists are just as rotten. seriously Google the traits, they're pretty much the same.

Sorry op I know tou wanted a happy story. But the only happiness you will find is in escaping this...monster. Because that's what he is.

Speak with women's aid for help to get out.
Good luck.

Yes Via the priory @IrisVersicolor

@fedup078 My sessions are over the phone 😓so I have to mad dash get the youngest two to have their naps and get on the call and spill my heart out, I overshare many aspects of my life but for some reason I’ve never even told my closest friend how bad it’s got, although.. she thinks he’s great too so would probably encourage me to stay.

But he makes me feel lonely, he won’t admit any hurt he causes, twists everything that I’m reacting out of order etc.

Can you give more insight into his behaviour?
How does he make you feel lonely?

@TheVanguardSix We can sit down to try and sort an issue and he won’t participate in the conversation at all, I can cry, beg, tell him how much I’m hurting and he won’t register a thing and turn it around by saying “well how do you think that makes me feel?” “I think it’s terrible that you see me like this after everything I do for us”, “I always thought I was doing the right thing, clearly I’m such an awful person to you and everyone is better off without, if that’s how you feel”.. so I can never point out fault, he could cheat and it would be my fault that I questioned him (he’s not cheated but done suspect things in the past that has crossed boundaries and this was always his reaction- that he couldn’t believe that I didn’t see that his intentions were pure).

@Pinkbonbon i think the hardest part is that I’ve made children with this man, I chose that, I can’t ever get away from him in reality and I also have to keep a close eye on his parenting to guide him on the NPD effecting the DC (I’ve had to pull him up on this a few times- usually met with “how could even say that, you’re making me
out to be a monster, then when I finally hears me out around two days of silent treatment he will admit fault and ensure it won’t happen again and is on the whole more aware however ends up
slipping back). I definitely know this won’t end happy, which is what’s most devastating, he’s come round at the moment to us splitting and healthily approaching coparenting but I know to keep my guard up. Ironically I have attended the freedom program following previous DA/DV, however I confused the ‘lovebombing’ with him being genuine and us having an unconventional sexual relationship (bsdm) where the lines have been blurred (Dom/sub).

A mistake people often make is 'staying for the kids'. Op you cannot protect them by staying with him. Because in staying it teaches them that that is what they are supposed to do when someone treats them bad. And then they continue the cycle, going on to date abusers themselves.

It's better that they have one happy home free from abuse with their mother that that can retreat to. And a mother that can say 'it is not our job to try to win over people who are mean to us. It is our job to get as far away from them as possible'.

You cannot protect them whilst staying with him. And they won't thank you for it when they are adults either. No one wants to hear that the reason their mother stayed with her abuser was because of them.

@Pinkbonbon i think I’m still finding it hard to believe he’s my ‘abuser’, I have been DA since I was 16, escaped that at 23 to fall into it all
again but worse, escaped that, attended the freedom program, was strong, healthy, content, then met DH and from week 1 he destroyed a lot long built self esteem, but, because I still feel very strong mentally and like I will survive (I never felt like this exiting my previous relationships- I was destroyed) I don’t feel like he’s abused me for some reason, I just feel like he’s handled situations badly and I got hurt, I’m really finding it hard to see that I’ve been abused again (probably compete denial on my part though and absolutely blind genuine love for him).

Everything @Pinkbonbon says is correct.

I too was married to (and had children with) a full-on NPD. My experience was 30 years ago and every day I kiss the ground that I found the strength to end the marriage. I had been gaslighted so badly that it took me years to unravel what had happened to me.

He will destroy you, and destroy your children. This is how they operate, every time. NPD's are dangerous, empty people without a single iota of empathy.

No one will ever understand how devastating and dangerous these people can be until they experience narcissistic devaluation.

They leave you questioning basic reality. They make you feel insane.

It's easier to realise that in a sense they are barely human. More a carefully constructed shell. If it helps you escape, look at him and see a 3D moving jigsaw. Not a person.

I have PM'd you, OP... but for anyone else who is interested and considering divorcing a narcissist: open.spotify.com/episode/41gHjJQbkYxhHQm4vG1MMS?si=a10504520df34b21
This is the gift that kept on giving when I was on my dog walks these past few months (still mid-divorce from a narc in prison who amazingly, AMAZINGLY is able to keep the gaslight ablaze outside his cell door. Prison walls do not stem the tide of the narc's agenda, believe me!).

OP, what you have written to me is a carbon copy of my own experience. My ex could have heads on spikes dotted around the living room. He could be a serial killer. If I begged him to stop, his attitude would be, you're being controlling and narcissistic, expecting me to stop doing something that is personally mine to enjoy.
Good ol' narc language! The narc is always the victim. They could be the architect of your misery and crucially, their own, but they are masters at apportioning blame.
I could cry until I am hyperventilating (and I have! Many times!), begging him to stop certain behaviours that are hurting the whole family. But I'd be the bad guy. Nevermind the fact that he may have slaughtered 30 people whose heads were now on spikes in my front room (disclaimer: this never happened. It just feels like it did!), I'd be the one stopping him from having his good time, big, bad me. It's perhaps a melodramatic analogy, but I really want to drive the point home that what you're dealing with is someone with sociopathic tendencies who really doesn't feel badly or take responsibility for his own poor behaviour and choices. He truly doesn't care. And that's the bottom line. He will always have a me first, me foremost, me always approach to living and it cannot ever be changed. Ever. You will always be responsible for his bad choices and he will pin blame on you at any cost, even if it results in the total devastation of your family. Narcs do not own their shit. And that issue will mushroom cloud over the years, rather than diminish. This is very sadly, a given, not a maybe.
What makes it hard is that they can be such nice guys, filling your life with lots of happy memories.
I sit here, going through my divorce, my husband's in prison, and I'll tell you something; I look back through our family photos and they tell an entirely, entirely different story from where I sit now. My divorce gave sight to this blind woman. I see everything I didn't want to see. It's a hard lesson. But it's a good one. And I feel emancipated. It is suffocating and soul-destroying, building your dreams around a narcissist. They consistently crush them.

I suppose it's a bit like rain op. You can jave an umbrella or a mac or perhaps, you could shelter in a shop doorway whenever the rain starts. But it doesn't change the fact that it's raining. And given enough time in the rain, you're still going to get soaked.

It is an intense grieving process to go through. I now feel like I had two lives - the one I thought I had and hoped for and the grim reality. And although we had many happy times even they were actually focused on him and his needs. I realise now that he never even attempted to be a good partner to me. He was an absolute nightmare during the divorce and afterwards though, I felt like I had PTSD at one point.

Sending you strength but once you realise what they are, you have to act.

You see, he’s actually very mature about everything, very rational, practical and already offered the house, everything in it, as little change for the DC as possible and even still offered help around the house if needed, very remorseful etc. It’s actually all very amicable and sad (not my experience with previous extremely toxic narc-sociopath exes). Is there such a thing as low level narcissist?

Where would he live?

He’ll rent, going to to book some viewings this week

When you say he's remorseful, what does he do and say to show this? Sorry to ask so many questions!

So he seems to have a lot of insight into his behaviour. Maybe he's not a narc! I think my whole post may have been misleading and for this, I apologise. My ex narc was actually quite 'nice'... a surreptitious dickhead but 'nice'. I hope that is not your case here and I hope, in a few months' time, he is still in this place of giving and being decent about it all.
Maybe he just needed out... and so did you. Maybe you're both good and kind people who need to be apart in order to be your best selves. Sounds like your divorce is off to a respectful start. Long may it stay that way.

No, don’t be daft, it’s helpful.

So he’s been saying “I am genuinely so sorry that because of me and my awful actions and treating you so bad we’re here”

“I just want you to know that I will always be here for you, to support you and help around the house if you need it or a break”

Thank you. He was never aware of his actions, absolutely obvious infact, the turning point was when I said I leave or he goes to therapy however he attends therapy and learns why he’s like this but any criticism or argument we have he still blows up, deflects and gaslights, however instead of it taking days of gaslighting it now only takes him a day to come round and apologise, so I can see it helping somewhat but I’m still in the vicious cycle of being treated like this everytime I criticise or bring anything remotely negative up.