Ex just referred to his girlfriend as “mummy” to daughter he hasn’t seen for 3 years on video call. I need advice.

[Needadvice83]

I need some advice because I’m fuming right now and heart broken.

Really quick background. Daughter 6 just started supervised video contact with dad for about 6 weeks now, once a week. Not seen for 3 years. This is whilst we wait for proper contact Centre and supervised reported contact with proper staff. Court had asked me to supervise these calls in the meantime.
I’ve been in another relationship for 3 years and we have a baby on the way end of the year.

Today video call. He says don’t you forget you only have one daddy. Daughter says what about my other one. Referring to my partner who she knows is not her dad but he has been in her life for half of it with no contact with real dad. She calls him by his name with us. The one time she said dad I corrected and said no you only have one daddy.

My ex just rose to this and out of the blue says well you have 2 mummies now and a brother coming soon. He then put her on the phone. I asked for this to stop. These 30 min calls are about re establishing the bond between daughter and father. I can’t believe he just told daughter she has 2 mummies. A lady she has never met, never knew existed till now.

Seriously is this ok because I’m really not happy. Daughter has one mummy and then after she spends time with the lady and they build a relationship then a step mum also. To just say 2 mummies to a lady daughter has never met and a father she hasn’t seen in 3 years due to court stopping contact because of abuse. Just because she is having his baby which I suspect is him at his game again doesn’t make her mummy does it?

Daugher will not settle now as just found out one she has 2 mummies and 2 a brother on the way to a dad she not seen in 4 years… I’m also shocked as can tell.

I think you do need to tell Cafcass and the support worker what was said, what has happened and how you've explained it to DD.

They need to know that he still is not putting DDs emotional needs before his own ego. It may mean that the the supervised contact needs to be extended for longer and tbh he needs to have some parenting lessons!!

So true. My children had this experience but i was there for them emotionally.

You dont have to say Daddy is likeva toddler, but you can say things like "if you do not feel loved unconditionally and supported after opening this letter, that's his failing not yours.

I would have liked to have been proved wrong, but she felt shamed and manipulated after reading his letters so i asked her how she felt and she put the labels on how she felt.

When he couldn't manipulate her he flounced off never to be seen agai.

100% this.

Doesn’t matter really what matters is she is now crying and scared of meeting him incase her other mummy she has never met will be there.

Does she know the social worker will be there?
Else she’s going to be confused and think that’s the new girlfriend if it’s a women.

I would be honest and say another person will be there when you meet him and they’re there to make sure you’re happy and if you want to go home or have any problems to tell them.

I wouldn’t say the girlfriend won’t be there just incase she is (I doubt it if there’s a social worker) but say if she is there it will be nice to meet her.

If he does bring her then I’d obviously complain to the social worker as that’s completely inappropriate but I really don’t think he will unless he is a complete idiot.

You're being asked to monitor the calls for a reason so I would definitely report it, sounds like he hasn't changed and you could be in for more of this behaviour so get it documented from the beginning xx

@CallOnMe she won’t be there it is just a first contact for him and daughter. I have explained that a lady will meet me and her and say hello and she will be there the whole time with you and daddy if you need to speak to her

Please read "How to talk so kids will listen, listen so kids will talk" helpful, practical advice for you to develop your skills to help your DC understand, label and manage their emotions.

I will email today the factual content of the call and how it effected her. I won’t mention what I actually think but ask for her opinion on what to do going forward to help out daughter. I can’t manage what he says, he has been on courses and obviously has not learnt a thing. Over the weeks he is so adamant in telling our daughter how everyone loves him at work etc etc. He has his own agenda.

I wonder if you can send him a calm and factual message and explain that his words have caused a lot of confusion and fear and while you have no objection to her (in time) being introduced to his new partner, it has to be done slowly and no more of the 'two mummies' stuff as it frightens her.

But then as other posters have suggested, try and dial it down with your daughter and explain that sometimes grown ups get confused and say the wrong thing. He called this lady a 'mummy' but shouldn't have. You're her only mummy and always will be.

Poor wee lass! I hope you're able to get it sorted and that your DD is feeling safe and secure again soon.

Definitely tell CAFCAS. Your ex is out of line and is not putting your child’s best interests first. Of course she needs to know about his gf and her soon-to-be half sibling but declaring she has a second mummy she has never met is a shitty traumatic thing to do.

Maybe it’s time for some age appropriate sex education? Maybe find a book that explains sperm from dad + egg from mum = baby that grows in mummy’s tummy then is born. So you are her mum and her (shit) father is her dad because she grew in your tummy from his sperm and your egg.
And then parenting in the social sense - so mummy’s and daddy’s and step mum’s and step dad’s (and foster parents and guardians if she asks more questions) are also the people who look after you and love you.
Then explain how all the important people in her life fit into this + dad’s gf and new baby.
So you are her mummy because you grew her in your tummy and she lives with you and you look after her very much.
Step dad (use whatever names suit you all) is a special person in her life a bit like a dad because he loves her and looks after her and they live together.
Dad is her dad because genetics. But she doesn’t live with him and he doesn’t look after her day to day. He does love her and wants to get to know her better which is why video calls and visits are starting.
Dad’s girlfriend lives with dad. If your DD starts seeing dad every week (or whatever) then gf might become a special person in her life too. But she will never be the mummy who grew her in her tummy and at the moment she doesn’t know her or look after her or love her but that might change as she spends more time with Dad (or it might not and that’s ok too).
Explain the same for her new siblings on both sides. Draw her a family tree.

The really important thing here is that she understands you are going nowhere and your role as her mummy is never going to change no matter who dad is dating/living with/married to. Any relationship she might develop with a step mum figure is totally independent to her relationship with you.

• you look after her and love her very much

@ItWillBeOkHonestly we don’t have any contact at the moment that is not via cafcass or court. It would fall on deaf ears and he would probably be happy that he has had an impact enough for me to msg him. I will definitely email Cafcass and see whether they should send a simple msg similar to what you said, it may work out better. I doubt he would be able to see the difference between me having a partner and him. He won’t factor in the 3 years no contact he wants it all done quick. He also does not see the fall out.

@Cocowatermelon that’s very helpful. I wish I could forward to him also.

I would argue she has one daddy and the guy she’s on the video call with is not it. What is the benefit to your child of making her call him daddy and not your partner? I would argue the opposite. It’ll be much easier for your child to call the man who cares for her regularly that she will talk to friends about as “daddy”. She won’t be talking to her friends much about this guy on the video call who sounds like a dickhead.

Don’t bother talking to him about it. Arm your daughter with the knowledge that parents are two kinds of things (genetics/biology + love and care and guardianship) and she’ll be able to make sense of it herself. With you and her dad’s gf having babies at the same time these questions would be coming up even if everything was amicable and he’d been a consistent presence in her life so far.

I'm sorry you are finding this hard and he doesn't sound nice but you don't need to make this into a big upset. You already have the same set up on your side so just explain to her that it's like that. No need for upset. Try and reassure her she has lots of people to love her.

It's all very well you having time to gradually accustom her. He hasn't done that, which would be ideal. She needs to know about her family not keep it a secret.

She described Steven as a daddy so he described his girlfriend as a mummy. He had just said you can only have 1 daddy but mixed it up by saying another mummy. Yes he's an idiot but no need to let him upset either of you.

@Summerfun54321
That would be equally confusing though. She’s meeting her dad and it’s going through the courts so OP does not have a choice. Even if he gets bored and drops all contact, the child still needs to be able to make sense if her relationships with all these people.

@ZenNudist
From an outsider’s view it’s the same set up on both sides. From OP’s daughter’s point of view it’s confusing and scary. She may not have any memories of her dad prior to contact being reestablished. She probably hasn’t quite understood why Steven isn’t her dad despite doing all the things dads do. She didn’t even know her dad had a gf before this call happened. She may have worked out that you can have a dad and a Steven who’s like a dad but isn’t her dad because Mummy and Steven said so, but she may be very scared about how 2 mummies are supposed to fit into her world. Up until the call, Mummy was Mummy and that was the end of it!

What a selfish tool! He's only thinking about himself, isn't he?

I'd contact CAFCASS, give them a factual account of what happened, and see what they say.

@ZenNudist I get what you are saying but he is not behaving like this. He spends all his calls saying don’t forget you have 1 daddy etc etc then when daughter said last night what about “my Steven” he retaliated with well you have two mummies then. She absolutely needs know about her family but not in a traumatic way. She clung on to me this morning and now didn’t want to go to school. He is such an idiot to use her like this.

Obviously he was totally unreasonable to say that. But thinking of my experience with my DSS, I do think at 6 she should be old enough to understand that she doesn't have two mummies/daddies if explained to her, it needn't be that confusing. I would be quite matter of fact with it.

I would be more focused on the baby brother bombshell!

You cannot control what he does. You really cant. He isnt breaking the law. He is talking to his child - of course you wont agree with his parenting style - because he hasnt even been a good parent recently where as you have.
So dont expect to agree with anything he does once contact is established
You take deep breaths and try and smile

"She's not your other mummy, sweetheart. She lives with Daddy, so she's your 'Susie', just like 'your Stephen'.

Don't let it get to you. It doesn't need to be a big deal for her, just because it's a big deal for you.

What he's doing is awful, but you know he's awful. All you need to do is minimise the impact on her. Explain it in a way that makes sense.

Every time you rise to the bait, you are playing his game. Drop the rope.

@picklemewalnuts good advice. I wish I could not be effected, it’s hard when he causing her harm after keeping her safe from him for so long. I’ve tried so hard to stop her being part of his games. Should I email Cafcass about it?

this.
he is an idiot.

I would send a message and say - she is not allowed to call Steven daddy, so she is not to call your girlfriend mummy. She has one mummy and one daddy.