Opinions on male female friendship?

[mangomuncher]

Hi all - asking for opinions on this situation please.

I'm happily married and started a new job about a year ago, which is pretty much my dream job/career. I absolutely love the team and have become friends with them quite quickly. We're often all out for drinks together, group WhatsApp, individual texting etc. There is one man at work who is my age, single and super friendly/smart/funny - overall an enjoyable person to interact with. I do not find him good looking at all. We work closely together and are often emailing throughout the day about necessary work matters. I'd say we were friends & have been for drinks together as a group. A few days ago he expressed exasperation about a work colleague matter that couldn't be discussed over email and I told him to give me a call about it (this would be normal for us).

However he sent a voice note to explain everything to my personal WhatsApp and we've ended up chatting on and off for the last few days, sometimes until 11pmish. Nothing inappropriate at all, sometimes play the messages in front of my DH as they're funny, have mentioned my DH multiple times during the convo. DH unbothered. Does this seem inappropriate? There's nothing flirty at all in the messages but the convo is ongoing. I can't work out if I'm encouraging something I shouldn't be. I guess I usually only develop close female friendships naturally. Colleague is extremely outgoing and chatty to everyone & I'm enjoying the chat because we work in a field that we can't really talk to outsiders about. I'm probably overthinking right? Thanks!

You two are full of portent today 😁

I have an image of you bookending the water cooler, offering a bit of crystal ball gazing with a side order of foreshadowing 🧙 🧙to any potentially frisky colleagues

That's the issue in these sorts of relationships, people don't walk away.

This week, it's fine because we're only talking about work at 11pm

Next week it's films or music and in jokes.

Then, fancy a drink? Mike and Sue from the office will come too.

We won't bother inviting Mike and Sue this week....

By this time you're intimate "friends" and it feels perfectly normal to discuss your relationship...

Then you spend more time planning time with him than you do with DH, but "nothing happens".

I would stop talking about work with work colleagues after 8pm unless it’s an emergency. Different spaces, different faces.

And by this point the damage is done in your marriage, whether you walk away or not.

@ClaryFairchild

And by then you'll have probably lost a lovely friendship... the genie can't be put back in the bottle

You're missing the point. If there's nothing to be said, nothing will get said, so there's no need to worry. If there's something to be said, it's not the friendship you thought it was anyway. When there seems to be no attraction and no signs to concern yourself about, then... well, there's nothing to concern yourself about.

Not everyone who talks to you will fancy you.

just make sure you have boundaries and keep being open with your DH.

dont shit where you eat. It’s messy xx

Yeah, sorry, I should've been clearer about what I meant by an 'anchor'. I mean like an identifiable 'thing' which brings people together - working together, or having a shared hobby etc.

For example:
I'm friendly with a couple of women that I just randomly met in the park on dog walks. We have each other's numbers, we've been for a drink a couple of times, we sometimes go on dog walks together in winter. But there's nothing really anchoring us together - there isn't really a 'thing' that brings us together beyond the fact we are female, are around the same age and have dogs.
I absolutely wouldn't give my number to a male dog walker or go for a drink with him, because there isn't a 'thing' which would pull me towards him.

Not everyone who talks to you will be messaging late at night on a regular basis....

Anyway, IMO the upshot is, male/female friendships can be great, but if you need to ask if it's a problem, it's probably a problem.

No, sounds all good. DH there, not as if you're hiding anything from him. Genuinely believe heterosexual male female friendships can exist if no sexual chemistry. Don't worry unless something occurs to worry about. Doesn't seem any boundaries are being crossed.

@LongPath

You should write for Eastenders. There's plenty of male/female friendships that don't look anything like this, and I've seen this happen between two previously straight women. How cautious do you think we need to be against our own lack of self control? Most of us don't fancy most of us anyway. Credit OP with having some agency. She doesn't find him attractive, so she'll say no if he tries to progress anything. No need for your fictional drama.

Sadly this is not fiction. In a 35 year career, I've seen it happen very many times.

As long as it doesn't affect your relationship with your family then it's fine. Your DH is fine with it. Others wouldn't be happy with 11pm chats. I know I wouldn't. Just keep communication between all three of you completely open.

Thanks for every single response - really helpful and I've read every one. For those asking why I have to ask, it's because at my last job my boss hit on me quite significantly at a work drinks. I'm now very cautious about potentially leading men on & reading their signs.

Our work hours are strange... some of us will be working until 9pmish or later. But the last few days we haven't been. I do have other female colleagues I would text that late, but probably not consistently. It's a nice friendship right now and I think I'll take steps to keep it just that, even though he's shown no signs of fancying me at all. Think I'll end text convos at end of work time.

It always amazes me how many on mumsnet think that men and women cannot be friends, good friends, reliable friends, fun friends without there being an undercurrent of something more akin to a romantic relationship. I have really good male friends, never felt attracted to them and they've never shown any attraction to me, my husband has met them (friends are in my life longer than husband) and he knows when I'm taking on the phone to one of them in particular because he says no one else can make me laugh as much. These men and I have been through marriages, breakups, career changes, immigration, fertility issues, finance up and downs, deaths of parents, sick kids etc and never once did it occur to me that other people would find this strange. I also have two ex's who I'm still good friends with, I'd never go back there but can safely say that during my mother's illness and death those two men were absolute gents and provided support that I desperately needed (due to distance and work my husband couldn't be with me), I spent a year back where I grew up and those guys did everything from dropping meals to the hospital when I was practically living there to just texting to make sure I got home after a late night drive, I also got home to find the lawns mowed while I was away. My female friends cared in different ways and all were equal to me.

Yep exactly, I know I don't call up my friends and chat until near midnight, in fact like most people I rarely if ever call them at all, I'd usually text.

I've read a few of these threads on MN and they always come off a bit like the OP has mentionitus. She has no one left to mention this guy to, so she has started a thread about him! To discuss how he is so smart, so funny, such good friends you can talk all night, etc etc.

OP, consider whether you have ever started a thread about how a female friend of yours is just soooo friendly and lovely, and you can talk for hours.

But close friendships of all kinds take time to develop. Honestly the way people give so much of themselves to people they barely know astonishes me!

Friendships with males need a bit more care and trust to develop because of the whole 'potential attraction' part.

In this case the OP has gone from 'friendly' to texting all evening in a matter of days. This is not a friendship, this is moving into emotional affair territory. The friendship version of love bombing, not a good way to build something long lasting.

Yes! Mentionitus. And that is exactly the problem with these kinds of relationships, they should be OK. On the face of it they are OK, but you're spending time thinking about it when (probably) you should be doing something else. You're giving emotional energy to it that you wouldn't give to other friendships.

I would think about the after work chats too. I think that I'd probably need to consider this with female friends too. As you have been at work with your colleagues most of the day, so it would be good to invest that time into your marriage instead?

This too. If a new female friend/colleague started messaging constantly and late at night, you'd think she was weird.

Again, m/f friendships can be lovely, I have several, but this has some warning signs for me.

I gave endless phone support to a sick family friend. Until six months later, I had to block him. It turned sleazy, inappropriate, and downright lacking in any respect for me. It was sad because I remembered him differently. We live and learn...

Mentionitus

Sorry OP but I'm cringing a little thinking you of talking your DHs ear off about this guy, "I'm just being open with him!" and then coming on here to chat more about him.

Only because I've been there myself. In the past when I've had a crush or whatever I've been able to slip them in to any conversation no matter how unrelated. At times it's even subconscious and I didn't even realise I was doing it. But from the outside it's quite obvious.

@LongPath unfortunately I agree with you-you have no idea what the other person is thinking. So I think it's all fine , but just be aware of any signs where it becomes 'unfine' and put some boundaries in-- I'm not keen on colleagues contacting me after 8pm and I don't answer them . My H had an enormous crush on someone who worked with us a long while ago and I think she was unaware he was writing copious songs and poems about her and hiding his communication with her from me, popping round doing favours etc. I can't exactly call it an emotional affair as it seems it was one sided- and to her just good friendship. As others have said there's a lot of emotional room
In there between friends and outright propositioning - stuff that can seem hugely upsetting to partners.

It's not even just that you don't know his intentions. It can start off as completely innocent in both sides but as you become closer/more intimate they start to become more attractive and you develop feelings.

I don't for a minute think men and women can't ever be friends, but you can't do things with them (late night chats, friendship that excludes all others, talk/think about them a lot) that would normally be reserved for romantic partners and kid yourself it's just friendship.

What’s wrong with talking about films or music or in jokes? I’ve got a long standing male friend of over a decade that I have loads of in jokes with and we often chat late into the evening. I was sending him silly memes at 11pm last night while my boyfriend was next to me in bed (also on his phone, I wasn’t secretly doing it while he was asleep).

I’m also in WhatsApp groups or individual chats with female friends that can be active until late at night. I don’t communicate with my male friends any differently than my female ones, and I’ve never had a platonic male friend make a pass at me. If I fancy someone I usually know pretty instantly, it’s very easy in my experience to differentiate between an emerging platonic friendship and sexual tension (and incidentally I am bisexual so this could apply to men or women).

what you’re describing sounds perfectly normal to me. Also to the PP above who said they wouldn’t give their number to a male dog walker because there’s no “anchor”… isn’t the fact you both have a dog the anchor? I would and have met male friends while walking my dog! Isn’t getting on with someone and enjoying their company the only “anchor” you need to form a friendship?

Sounds OK I theory but every male friend I've had has had a flirty undercurrent.