Any advice on how to handle this with ex abusive partner re-writing history to our daughter?

[Mullingover]

They only talk on video at the moment, court ordered but is a step to unsupervised contact. A few years between contact. Found guilty of abuse in court’ mainly emotional. I’m sure he is a narcissist. Daughter is 6.

when he talks to her on the phone he makes the point of painting an entirely different narrative of the relationship to her. On the course we were sent on it says we should answer along the lines of we both love you, sometimes adults don’t get on but we love you etc etc and direct away from that past. He doesn’t do this, he tells her story’s of our amazing happy family life and how much of an amazing father he was. It’s a lie the truth is he was a stoned aggressive drunk who I tread on eggshells. He had to be forced to help or take her to the park. He used to say he went to work I did nothing at home with her all day ( I worked part time) so all parenting was on me. Everytime we did things as a family he was miserable and wanted to get home so he could get high.

I obviously don’t want to tell her this, she is only six and has completely been taken in by his lies. He often says do you remember when we did this, she says no, and he then tells her a fake story of what he did with her and she believes it.

He keep saying to her he still loves mummy and always did and hopes I will allow us to do things together like parties. He gave me terrible ptsd, I have recovered after the 3 years we have been apart and have a partner and a baby on the way and we are very happy. Daughter gets on so lovely with him. I can not have my ex in my life due to what he did to me. But he is making out like he is amazing and I’m the one stopping it now from being amicable. She asks me why I don’t want to see him when he says he loves me. If she could see the messages he used to send me after I left, certainly didn’t love me in those.

Basically what do I do about him re/writing history? Do I just leave him to it and let him tell out daughter lies about our relationship and how he is just so amazing and the best etc (his words) he tells her everyone loves him as he is such a great person. I don’t want to make her sad saying actually your dad did this and was like this and he isn’t telling the truth.

i think you should just leave it. She will work it out for herself as she gets older. Don’t risk causing even more confusion for her. You have a partner and baby on the way so I get that you really don’t want this especially how abusive her was. I would explain to her that unfortunately things were not quite like that and you do not wish to see her father or have contact with him but you’re happy that she can build a relationship with him.

if you go into details etc about her dad she may resent you or think you’re lying as she is getting a different picture. Also if you do tell her how shitty he has been you risk making her feel bad for enjoying talking to him which isn’t nice.

Also if you discourage the relationship with her dad she may go on to resent your current partner and the relationship between him and new baby.

@Heartandcross its just so horrible to think that she is going to build a relationship with an abuser and he is just lying to her. Why he feels the need to constantly tell her he is the best I don’t know, it’s odd. I feel he is trying to come out of this clean and the more he convinces her everyone loves him, all his friends and colleagues and his clients the more he paints a picture that I was the problem. I am afraid as I don’t want to share the truth that she will believe him as he is very convincing. Only a few have seen the real man he is, me and his exes.

The hardest thing is he probably doesn’t even see he did anything wrong anyway he always thought he was amazing, so technically not lying in his own head. It makes me realise that all the admitting he did in court and the courses he attended he just lied through to tick the boxes.

She will work it out as she gets older. A couple of years ago my abusive exh was always bad mouthing me to the dc. I think he still does it a bit. They are older than your daughter but they now have told me they can see him for who he really is and now agree that divorcing him was the right thing to do, after I had a period with them where his lies had them really angry with me that I had split up and ruined the family.

Can you very gently offer a different narrative? When she says “daddy says we had such a wonderful time that time..”, say something like “people remember things differently and perhaps that’s how daddy wishes it could have been, but the truth is he found it very difficult to ..(spend time with us or whatever)”.

@MrsWooster i feel if I do this I will confuse her so much. I’m quite a soft gentle spoken person, my ex is loud and passionate, he tells her endless declarations of love over and over, he is extremely believable. Well I did for so long so it does work unfortunately. He will drown me out for sure. But then I don’t want to get drawn into this who is telling the truth etc as ok sure that will cause her damage.

Im finding being an abused person very difficult as I’m the only one who knows the truth and the reason why I left. It is my secret to carry it feels.

Honestly, I would find a NACCC accredited contact centre who offer life story work as they could help explain to her in a child friendly way that mummy and daddy needed help from a judge to decide what is best for her, and why it was decided that she should not see her Dad for a while and why at the moment she is only allowed to see him via video. Often this will involve drawing up a storyboard or book she can keep and go back to as and when she needs to. This won't alter his behaviour going forward but it gives her a factual narrative of her life so far.

"He keep saying to her he still loves mummy and always did and hopes I will allow us to do things together like parties."

This is really worrying, is an abuse of his time with her and is a pretty good indicator that he will attempt to overstep the line when she starts seeing him direct again. The court would take a very dim view of this so it might be worth thinking about returning to court or seeking legal advice. At the very least I'd contact Rights of Women or Women's Aid.

Good luck.

I agree with MrsW. Give her an age-appropriate response along the lines of 'Sometimes people talk about the past in the way that they wish it had been. But that isn't really how it was.'

Can you introduce her to the idea that 2 people can experience the same event very differently? Give her an example she’ll understand. Like her and a friend are going on a rollercoaster/swimming in the sea/rock climbing - something she has done. And one friend remembers the day being the best time ever and the other friend is scared of heights/deep water and found it very very scary and doesn’t want to do it again. Then tell her that living with her dad was not always happy and fun for you even if dad says it was a happy and fun time for him. No details, no telling her he’s lying. Just let her know that what her dad’s telling her about when you all lived together does not represent how you felt at that time.

As someone who went through a similarly awful divorce, and whose children were really damaged by the conflicting messages they heard from their parents about the other parent, I would say definitely do not deviate from the advice you were given on that course. Your DD will see her dad for who/what he is in the fullness of time. I heard someone say recently: "you don't need to tell your story. Time will tell it." And I think that's right. My kids are young adults now and see their dad for the self-serving narcissist he is. I could have let them reach that conclusion without feeling the need to justify my own position over the years, but I didn't know that then.

A combination of "recollections may vary" and "well, Mummy was not happy. Daddy may have been happy but that's his experience. Mummy matters justbas much and she was ,not happy,".

My dd is 19 now and she overtook him emotionally at about 13.

He's being very manipulative and I think you should say something to your DD.
He can have his version of events, but so can you. You don't have to explain everything because she's very little. The suggestions to say simply that's not how you remember the past is fine.
I think you could also say that you personally don't love Daddy any more and you are now happy with your current partner and family. I would also nip the idea of future parties together etc firmly in the bud.
The future faking of family time isn't healthy for her. Reassure her she will have lovely birthday parties and lots of fun.

I don't agree to leave her to work it out- if the only narrative she's hearing is his- that's the story and history she'll believe. Moving forward to unsupervised visits- that will become the 'truth' and if you've never said otherwise, it'll be what and who she believes. By the time she 'works out' the truth it could be years and a risk of a estranged relationship from you. If she says do you remember, I'd be honest- no I don't, because that didn't happen. It's reasonable you have advice from a course, but if only one parent is following that, then I don't see the advice and start shoes from it as being workable. I would t allow him to rewrite history to her, it could be really damaging.

1wanda1 is right.

You only need to present your right to have your own reaction/ experience

That was all i did.

When he said stuff like id left on a whim, i didnt say too much.

Just over the years, ive always reiterated to them that if they themselves aren't happy, that's the feeling to pay attention to.

When my dd was about 15 she got of one many crappy letters from her dad and i said, this letter should leave you feeling loved and supported, not manipulated and conflicted.

She was able to see that his letters to her left her feeling Bad and that that is not right. He was an adult.

My xmil tried to portray me as mentally ill for leaving her son. Since leaving him i did all the things she shamed me for not having achieved but id never get back in touch to say, hey, i have a job, a secure job, i have a pension, my kids are happy, no "boyfriends" coming and going.

She's not here to see it but i pity her now.

@Beamur I have nipped the idea of parties together in the bum the other week. I told her that she can have two parties and that will be amazing. He again this week when she said can mummy come to my party at yours next year said of course her whole family can come, I love all mummies family. To which she has said again to me daddy loves you etc. My response is still mummy and daddy will have separate parties as sometimes mummies and daddies aren't good together. He is determined to make me be the bad cop, it was his ploy even when we were together. I get the feeling I will be a bad cop in this.

@SD1978 that is exactly what I’m worried about, she will be told his story over and over. I have never bad mouthed him to her so she will only know his truth. She can ask me and I will tell her in an age appropriate why but I fear he is trying to Brain wash her.

I have a msg from when I left him and he warned me that that he will make sure she knows the truth about what happened and what her mum is really like. He scares me very much. The courts don’t seem to be bothered anymore as it’s dragged out years in family court. He has done all the courses etc but he has not changed

@Mullingover so hard for you, I’m in the same situation although DC have direct contact with their dad. I’ve decided to let them find out who he is, they have already denounced him for lying on one occasion - about something that they experienced themselves whilst with him - so your DD will not necessarily always believe your XH fairytales.

Temporarily you may be cast as the one who broke the family up, and that’s hard to bear, but my response when they ask is that sometimes a grown-up has to make decisions that don’t seem right when you are a child. And actually owning that decision, saying “yes I did decide that we had to separate”, in the long term that shows DC that you don’t have to put up with being treated badly - my kids don’t understand that yet but they do trust me and that has to be enough for now. Like you I don’t want to confuse/damage them by contradicting him and drawing them into the conflict.

Once your DD has real contact with her father and he lets her down - as he will - the scales will fall from her eyes as they did from yours. Meanwhile just continue being the loving steady dependable parent and she will know where she feels safe.

All the best in coping with this, it is tough x

"Of course everyone has their own perspective"

"Thats the thing about life not everyone experiences things in the same way."

And then eventually "what your perspective/opinion/thoughts"

He is never wrong or lying you both just have different perspectives

I'll add
" it's always interesting how people remember stuff differently"

My ex does this I asked my son is that how you remember it? He said no but daddy is so clear about it did I remember wrong? I said no you didn't but he struggles even now bad memories come bursting out of him out of nowhere and I have to deal with it

@Icedlatteplease I do think it works differently with abusers tho, they manipulate the truth.

@Mullingover - I saw it happen to my sister- I refuse to allow it to happen to me. She never contradicted his view- so the kids grew up believing dads version because why wouldn't they- it was the only version they were given. There is a huge difference between keeping things honest, and defending yourself, and bad mouthing the other parent. Being neutral doesn't work when you're dealing with an abusive and manipulative ex- they aren't neutral so I don't see how you can be. It's a bloody fine line- but I would always reiterate that dads version and yours dont match. That the situation wasn't a happy one. There is a way to be age appropriate but I don't believe that assuming an impressionable child will 'choose' the right side is in their best interest!!

I had this situation 6 years ago.
My abusive ex was going to expose me too for all the things I'd done wrong

I was petrified, he rang my parents, family social services, school, my GP.
People just kept telling me keep on keeping on and your kids will see the truth. Eventually everyone saw him for what he was, an abusive bully.
My DC have seen through it.
I had to and still have him blocked on everything, I lived on fear and my DC saw that, I tried to hide it, never bad mouthed him, when he tried rewriting history I just repeated I don't remember it happening quite like that.
My DC asked why I have him blocked on everything as " dad said he doesn't understand, he has no problem with you " I just replied we can't communicate without one of us getting upset.
They have now seen exactly how he is.
I have CPTSD and am currently having therapy for this but I've done my best in not bad mouthing him and trying to be the best I can be. I understand how hard it is OP

It doesnt matter , it's still the abusers truth no matter what the reality is for you or your kids.

When you are dealing with an abusive arsehole your children are going to get a fair amount of brainwashing. Not only him but in my kids case all his family and a fair amount of officialdom too.

The fact is he's their dad. You start telling him "the truth" your just another voice telling your kids that you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Why should your kids believe you over him?

The whole point of abuse is to remove an individuals ability to think and act independently. What you want your kids to do is the exact opposite think and act for themselves independently of their father

Reminding them constantly that they can do this, that you do this, you're allowing them the space for figure it out for themselves. The fact you allow them to exist independently from you but he doesnt is going to be important

You are also giving them the skills to operate in a difficult and challenging environment without feeling disloyal to you or to their father.

it keeps them safe.

The most dangerous time for your kid is when they challenge their father. Giving them the skills to hold onto their own truth without needing to challenge others when it is unprofitable or dangerous to do so is really important.

to which she has said again to me daddy loves you etc. My response is still mummy and daddy will have separate parties as sometimes mummies and daddies aren't good together.''

You have all of my sympathies. Just keep reiterating that ''mummy was not happy''.

And depersonalise it. In a relationship, both people need to be happy. A relationship is not one person in charge telling the other person that they ought to be happy. They both really need to be happy.

Every single time you hear of a couple breaking up, refuse to do the catastrophising bullshit.

For years I was scared that he was going to ''tell the truth'' but now, they're 19 and 16.... what's the ''truth''. That mum left you because she wanted to?

It sounds like my right to them.

They are tough tough times though. Splitting up from a narcissist is hell on earth. They use the courts to control you. They smear campaign you. They use the children to control you. They insinuate that you're mentally ill and vaguely threaten to tell various social bodies.

Stay grounded, this behaviour could drive you crazy and it would be the predictable outcome of having been gaslighted to fuck. But do yoga, have a beer, listen to an anti-anxiety meditation, post online. But do not have any visible reaction. You are going to have a reaction to a fucking abusive narcissist driving you crazy but hide it from him. Yoga, beer, vent online.

All of my sympathies. My 19 year old and my 16 year old have no time for him. Of course he blames me for this but they just see him for who he is. But I am a million times more impervious to what he thinks than I was.