Any advice on how to handle this with ex abusive partner re-writing history to our daughter?

[Mullingover]

They only talk on video at the moment, court ordered but is a step to unsupervised contact. A few years between contact. Found guilty of abuse in court’ mainly emotional. I’m sure he is a narcissist. Daughter is 6.

when he talks to her on the phone he makes the point of painting an entirely different narrative of the relationship to her. On the course we were sent on it says we should answer along the lines of we both love you, sometimes adults don’t get on but we love you etc etc and direct away from that past. He doesn’t do this, he tells her story’s of our amazing happy family life and how much of an amazing father he was. It’s a lie the truth is he was a stoned aggressive drunk who I tread on eggshells. He had to be forced to help or take her to the park. He used to say he went to work I did nothing at home with her all day ( I worked part time) so all parenting was on me. Everytime we did things as a family he was miserable and wanted to get home so he could get high.

I obviously don’t want to tell her this, she is only six and has completely been taken in by his lies. He often says do you remember when we did this, she says no, and he then tells her a fake story of what he did with her and she believes it.

He keep saying to her he still loves mummy and always did and hopes I will allow us to do things together like parties. He gave me terrible ptsd, I have recovered after the 3 years we have been apart and have a partner and a baby on the way and we are very happy. Daughter gets on so lovely with him. I can not have my ex in my life due to what he did to me. But he is making out like he is amazing and I’m the one stopping it now from being amicable. She asks me why I don’t want to see him when he says he loves me. If she could see the messages he used to send me after I left, certainly didn’t love me in those.

Basically what do I do about him re/writing history? Do I just leave him to it and let him tell out daughter lies about our relationship and how he is just so amazing and the best etc (his words) he tells her everyone loves him as he is such a great person. I don’t want to make her sad saying actually your dad did this and was like this and he isn’t telling the truth.

Thanks a lot if really good advice. Especially about telling her that both people need to be happy in a relationship and not one telling the other to be.

Its such an awful situation when you try your best to protect your children but in this situation you can’t.

If he is a narcissist there is no other truth apart from his own, he believes every word of it, he wont ever take responsibility for his actions and he will constantly be wanting revenge on those who stand up to him. In this scenario he is using his daughter. He'll probably get bored though if you stonewall him and don't react. Take the good advice on here and help your daughter navigate this.

This is so hard, and I'm sorry OP that you are going through it.

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place - on one hand, I'm sure you (like I) would love to say "hang on a minute, your Dad did XYZ and that's why XYZ happened" but on the other hand, it's so, so important not to engage in a war of words about your ex in front of a very young and impressionable child.

I agree with PP who have all said to reiterate something like "People remember things differently" or "It's nice Daddy feels that way, but it was different for Mummy". Hopefully in time, given the fact she is currently under supervised contact (which speaks volumes about how nasty this individual is) she will come to realise her Dad's storytelling is exactly that, because she too will witness how he rewrites things that she has experienced. It's absolutely shit, because nobody should have to go through that to "learn", but it's imperative she forms her own opinions about her Dad rather than seeing it from another perspective, and risk being alienated.

My ex was in no way as horrific as yours sounds, but I too have had to bite my tongue at junctures when my DS (5) recalls incidents and asks my opinion or a question. He remembers when his Dad verbally assaulted him (just about) and has asked questions like "Did you leave because Daddy was mean to us" - to which I have to keep it as neutral as possible and say "Mummy and Daddy didn't get on well, and thought we would be happier apart" rather than "Your dad was a total dick to me and you, and you deserve better" That said, DS's Dad isn't a bad dad as such, and certainly doesn't show signs of abusing him in the way he did me - something I'm both pleased about but also aware that it means my DS will probably not see his Dad for the person he can be.

I'm so sorry OP.

Your narc ex is identical to mine. We're also in court awaiting a FFH - sounds like you had one too. It is hell.

I have no advice as I suspect I'll be in the same boat at some point, so following eagerly and sending you love. All we can hope is that as our children grow older they see the truth ❤️

Yep @st1cky we’ve been in family court for 2 years. He has attended all the courses he was sent on and they believe is a changed person armed with knowledge of what abuse can do. It’s all bollocks as he is exactly the same. I thought he may be different and I’m coming to terms with the fact he isn’t. He appears so desperate to been seen as the good guy, it’s really odd to listen too. I was heavily gaslighted during our marriage and to hear him still doing it feels really strange now I see him for who he is. He sounds really in-hinged.

It's a very lonely place op. I don't know about you but I'm desperate for people to understand and see for themselves what my ex is like. I know it's a need for validation that is never ending. All my friends and family who were there at the time know the truth but it never seems to be enough. They weren't there in those moments when I was alone with my ex and he made me feel like an empty shell. They didn't see me cry helplessly in that moment and never felt the feelings that built up over the years. I also find I have forgotten so much, and often wonder whether it was really that bad? Surely if remembering it was?

It doesn't help knowing he has a wide circle of friends who didn't see the real him.

In regards to your daughter, it's awful isn't it? My three kids are much older now. I left their dad when my youngest was 8. He still saw them I've always made sure I never stopped giving him access but it's completely against everything in your motherly instincts, knowing you're supposed to protect them yet subjecting them to who knows what.

My advice to you is if you can, get you daughter a therapist who can work through the conflict she may experience as it happens. If you speak to her school senco openly and honestly, they are often able to support with this, and can even offer counselling or often as a first off they can do talking and drawing sessions during school time. If you don't have any luck with support thought he school see if you can arrange if privately if you can afford it.
My eldest two now have very little contact with their dad. I actually didn't think the youngest is far behind either. They have seen for themselves what he is like and they don't like what they see. It makes me sad that I had to let them go through it themselves and it did take a few times of them speaking to him, then them breaking away because of something he did, only to talk to him again, but I completely understood the process they were going through and as they got older I started to share my experiences with them, allowing them to understand his patterns of behaviour for themselves.
But I was always there to catch them when they fell and pick-up the pieces as any mum would. I'm sure you and your husband have a loving family and with a new baby coming soon, the love your daughter will feel from your family is all she needs to feel safe and will override the damage done by her bio dad.

I can imagine her dad will let his real self slip soon enough anyway and she will have a glimpse at the real him and begin to see the truth for herself. Kids are smart like that.

When you are sitting there observing this garbage, why do you let him continue it? Tell him you are recording the calls (which you can do), and if he lies or tries to manipulate her in any way, you will meet him back in court and his unsupervised visits will never happen. While he is talking all that trash, push her aside, tell him to stop damn lying, and state the TRUE version of events.

You need to stop being so damn passive! Model strength and a spine for your daughter in handling men, not wimpiness and weakness. Otherwise she will find herself in a relationship with a fool just like her father, because your silence will be taken to be tacit agreement with his version of events. Get it together Mommy and protect your kid.

If I do that @Cimone I will no doubt be accused of alienation as the judge is happy with how he has behaved so far and completed courses. This is a step to unsupervised, we have been told that at court. Once it’s unsupervised I won’t have a clue what’s being said. If I also react he will know it’s got to me.

Whilst I agree it's not a good idea to challenge, rather, as PP suggest, to gently assert that you didn't feel it the same way, I do think you should record (as written notes) every time your ex says something inappropriate and especially in contravention to the guidance you both received. Just keep that record for when you need evidence in court that all these courses have taught him nothing.

The fact he is doing this whilst being supervised is worrying. Do those present not have to observe and report back on inappropriate behaviour? He's clearly going against what he's been told to do so where are the repercussions?
What's the point in the supervision if they don't actually supervise?!

All those saying, she'll figure it out for herself etc......I think that is a big risk to take. A good friend of mine has zero relationship with his now 18 year old daughter for whom he was a most loving and present father. When her parents were together this girl only heard the bad things about her father and when he finally left, the mother really cut loose. This girl has quite simply heard and taken in one very skewed version of the truth and seems to believe it completely. Her father is paying a very high price for taking the high road, not contradicting lies told by her mother because he didn't want to speak ill of her. I think decent people have trouble understanding the mindset of someone who would hate their ex more than they love their child and would happily manipulate them to get one over on the ex. But these people exist and is allowing them to get away with this not colluding in their terrible behaviour? Or giving tacit approval of it?

I would try and counteract this. My friend is losing her teenage DD to her ex husband. He has totally twisted things blaming my friend in a similar way. the truth was he was a narcissistic manipulative bully, had an affair and chucked her out leaving her homeless, jobless, penniless and too ill to work. It's been spun as her leaving and trying to take all his money.

I absolutely would not allow your Dd to think that your ex is the victim here.

@Hopevoyager we are waiting for proper supervision from a centre where staff will have to report back. In the meantime I have been ordered to supervise and report back to Cafcass if I’m not happy. A few weeks back I sent an email about the intensity of the calls and the constant talking about buying toys and puppies and anything she wants. They just replied back is this something you want me to just send him an email back about. But then said if child is happy and not distressed then isn’t not a problem really. No she isn’t distressed she is buzzing at the attention. They spend half the call back and forward with declarations of love. After no contact for almost 3 years and a now about 4 30 mins calls it’s so intense.

Been there and have seen others in a similar situation. From what I've seen, girls have a sharp painful realization about parents like this around the age of 11 or 12. I've seen several of them make a sudden cognitive jump at that point and there's no fooling them any more.

Be guided by what your child needs in the moment. Do they need a discussion or do they just want a cuddle? An acknowledgement that it's really confusing right now? That they don't have to decide who is right and who is wrong and they can love you both? Don't actively collude in lies if you're asked by your child, but don't make it a tug-of-war over the "truth".

My dd is 14 now and doesn't see her father. He was pretty extreme, telling her I intended to kill her and filling her with FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) towards him. She was wounded by her experience with him, but ultimately I'm hopeful that she'll be okay.

To be fair, I acknowledge that comments above that not all children see through their fathers. Some let the mask slip more than others.

Sounds like he's love-bombing your dd at the moment.

Please please please contact women's aid. They will be able to advise most appropriate way to deal with this. They have seen it a million times. Also the court will approve of you taking appropriate steps xx