Way to move forward with husband? Angry and tired.

[knackered81]

How do I speak to my husband about these issues without it turning into a massive row. I don't want a huge row. I want us to be harmonious (as we were before DC) but I also want to be clear on my boundaries and communicate how I'm feeling.

Long story short, he works long hours, toddler DC at nursery part-time, I work part-time and look after DC and home. I usually do bedtimes by myself as DH doesn't get home till afterwards. We used to have allocated tasks but DH has stopped doing some of his as he has been working long, but then sometimes he's forgotten even when he hasn't been working. Eg dishwasher and bins are his domain, but I've done them all- just an example. It's all the little things that infuriate me. He put out some recycling this morning but just left a massive box and dumped it on top of the wheelie bins instead of folding it down to fit inside. The bin men don't take it like that. He also put a bag of normal rubbish in the recycle. Is it just laziness? If I say anything I feel like he thinks I'm nagging. Towels and socks left everywhere. He took toddler to the park this morning but it took me to get them out the door packing bag, snacks etc as DH seemingly couldn't do it by himself without a lot of faff.

Yesterday morning his shirt was crumpled and there were no other clean ones. He has a meeting. He tells me this as a neutral statement, like there's an underlying suggestion I'm somehow responsible for dealing with this issue. I said it'll need an iron, but why hadn't DH done it? He had been sat scrolling on his phone whilst DC ate porridge and could have done it then. Instead what happens? DH goes up to shower i and iron the shirt. I know.

Last night he said he would try to be home for DC bath, and I said yes please, because it gets so lonely doing it all during the week and DC want to see their dad too. Then he texted saying he was delayed and wouldn't be home, but he arrived 2 minutes after I'd finished putting DC down. He then chilled out last night, but this morning says he has to work 4 hrs this weekend since he came home early last night and didn't finish.

Last night I was tired from the week and annoyed about a lot of the load falling on me. He started saying he was going to a meeting in Berlin next week but it could all be done in a day, just letting me know. However he then said he's going to ask work to book him an overnight so he doesn't have to get up too early on the day! The meeting is at 1pm in Berlin.

I was so annoyed it didn't once occur to him that I might prefer him not to do an overnight if he doesn't need to, and also that it didn't occur to him that then he'd miss another bedtime and breakfast time with his DC?

Every time he works long hours I pick up the slack. I get that's the deal - he works in a well paid hardworking industry to support his family. And he really does work hard to give him his dues. But I feel he doesn't acknowledge the impact on me. I have sacrificed my career building and lost touch with my professional network since motherhood and Covid. I am doing drudgery all day to support us but I feel he doesn't get it.

I wasn't at my best last night (tired and pissed off) and neither was he. We probably both said things we regret. I was sniffy and said I'd love an overnight stay in a hotel and a meeting in Berlin. He replied he'd like to see me try. I pushed him and asked exactly what he meant. I said I'm trying to get back into my work (which isn't as well paid as his) and he said "well I chose a career that is well paid- I made a practical decision" - as if being a nurse, teacher, carer etc or anything lower paid isn't "practical". I stopped the conversation before I flew off the handle at him and went to bed.

Anyway sorry for the rant. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm going out with him for some supposed quality couple times tonight so I guess we will need to clear the air.

How to I discuss all this with him without turning into a huge raging row? I'm angry but I don't know if it's right to be, or if part of my anger is because my career stalled and I'm not a lover of the toddler stage of parenting.

Anyway as evidenced by this post my head is all in a confuddle, so I'd appreciate some words of wisdom.

Thank you!

Some time just him and child would open his eyes massively. Not prepping stuff in advance.
Is there a work course, friends holiday etc on horizon you could go on.
He has no reason to step up as you do at the minute.
If he says work bla bla bla point out he’d have to do it if he lived alone.

Sigh. He’s criticising you for not working like a father, when you can’t because he won’t parent his children.

^This, in a nutshell. And he's gladly settled into a smug position of feeling like he's the clever, professional one because he's got the 'proper job', while conveniently forgetting the reason for that is his children, whom he doesn't look after. Anyway he's not that clever and professional - he can't even take his child out without mummy helping organise him.

I sacrificed my career too, without thinking about it hard enough. I've only just managed to get a proper job again at 50. But my dh never took me for granted, always did his bit, would never have belittled me and knows I didn't lose my brain or equal status when I had babies.

It sounds to me as though you're dealing partly with laziness and partly with strategic incompetence. LTB since you're doing everything anyway and then you won't have all the stuff associated with him!

Sounds like my exH OP. Note the ex. Work took precedence every time and I just had to go along with it.
I would also say that there’s a very big difference between men claiming to be supportive, and actually being supportive. ExH claimed to be supportive, but in practise that actually meant he didn’t outright shoot me down or ‘forbid’ me if I wanted to do something. But that’s not being supportive. Genuine supportiveness is actually altering their own life in order to make yours easier. Anything I did, I had to work around the children and make it happen on my own, or it didn’t happen. I actually spoke to him once about dropping a couple of hours at work so I could apply for a specific job which fitted in really well with the kids, excepting that couple of hours. He flat out refused. We’d have been better off as a household so it wasn’t like it would have been a detriment overall. He just couldn’t fathom having to adjust his own life in any way. Just one of the many reasons he’s an ex - time and again he showed me that when the chips were down and when it really mattered, I’d be on my own to deal with it. So I left him and now I deal with everything on my own and life is far far far better without the resentment and loneliness of having someone around who consistently shows that they won’t put you first.

Can I just say that good on you for blowing up at him and whatever you said was very much justified. What he said about you career wise was disgusting. You simply stood up for yourself and did not tolerate being disrespected.

Suggestions - do NOT engage with things like ironing or recycling, or anything, ever, that is 'his' job. Ever.

This needs straight talking - tell him that he really doesn't sound like he respects you which is sad because what you do is bloody difficult. And that if he does not you will be going back to work FT and is that what will make him respect you? Because if it does remember 50/50 childcare comes with that and he can be ready to change how he works permanently to get way more involved in childcare. Or perhaps he realises how bloody lucky he is to have your support right now, and could maybe recognise that, and show it, and appreciate all that you do.

That talk has to happen ever if it's very difficult - alongside you ending completely doing anything for him that's technically his job.

I would start a conversation about my career and agree with him that you need to get back into it.
Then you can split jobs/ child care 50/50.
What a great suggestion, thanks DH
😁
Do not get pregnant again Op
Step back from his attempts to make you responsible for all the grunt work.
Shirt crumpled -ignore
Why on earth did you iron it!
Bin incorrect -leave it.
He will have to do a dump run at the weekend.
You are moaning he is taking the piss but you are letting him.
Get your career back quickly, the sooner the better.
He doesnt appreciate anything you do for him so fuck that, get your career and pension back on track.

Probably not particularly helpful to the OP but
dishwasher and bins are his domain
why? why? why? are dishwasher and bins nearly always the bloke's jobs on these threads. Oh he does the dishwasher and bins.... therefore he doesn't need to do anything else?
Dishwasher is piss easy - takes a matter of seconds.
And bins? Most people have some kind of sorting system going on within the house so all the person on "bin duty" has to do is take out a bag or couple of bags on the way out of the house and chuck them in the relevant bin. And big whoopee doop, they might have to fold a cardboard box.
It's ridiculous. Dishwasher and bins are a total and utter skive.

He needs to be doing more tasks than dishwasher and bins.
Stop ironing his shirts - his problem if his clothes are not ready for work. If he doesn't know how to iron he can either learn fast (watching a youtube tutorial if he's not bright enough to work it out on his own) or he goes to work with creased shirts.
If he's taking the child out to the park just let him get on with faffing about packing. He can learn. Do not help him. If he takes DC out and finds he hasn't got this that or the other and then discovers it's a major inconvenience not to have those things then he will know better for the next time.

If you're harmonious and don't fight, that must be partly because you don't respond to nasty put-downs like "I'd like to see you try." What a thing to say to you. When I've said to my husband that I couldn't earn as much as him or do his job he ALWAYS says I could - probably not true, as he's better with people than me, but he respects my intelligence and abilities and that's why he says it. (I mean he's an arse about lots of things, but not that.)

I don't work at the moment due to having moved to an overseas posting for his job. Basically still an SAHM. It's already a bit of a confidence knock and if he was a dick about it it would really bring me down.

He tells me this as a neutral statement, like there's an underlying suggestion I'm somehow responsible for dealing with this issue

This would make my blood BOIL. You've described entitlement very nicely there!

He clearly needs designated responsibilities. This night and this night are his bath and bed. This job and that job are his and if he fucks them up, it's obvious whose fault it is, and you point it out. Every time. I wouldn't normally say this because it sounds like declaring war within a marriage, but honestly it sounds to me like he's already done that. He wants you doing what he doesn't want to do and he also wants you to believe you HAVE to because you're "not capable" of bringing in the big man bucks like he does.

I think you need to have a bit of a row to be honest. I think he's stuck his head in a complacent place which is very comfortable for him and you being tactful about it won't shock him out of that place.

this morning says he has to work 4 hrs this weekend since he came home early last night and didn't finish

I'd say fine, whatever. But he has to fit this around his family responsibilities. So maybe he does those hours after DC are in bed. Or he gets his four hours work, and he looks after DC for four hours the other weekend day so you get a break.

Do you think you going back to work will right some of this? Or do you think he will be obstructive about that/ let you carry on doing too much at home?

The financial reward of a job is not a measure of its usefulness to society as you say. But even if it was, disparity of earnings shouldn't define the respect each person's career gets within the home.

"Nagging" - a word invented by men as a way to make women feel bad for expecting them to do anything.

Agree with other posters. if you have agreed certain tasks are his, then do not step up to do them when he doesn't. And, if they have to be done and he's not doing, remind yourself that it is not "nagging" to point out that an agreement has been broken. Does he ever complain that his boss is "nagging him" if he doesn't do an agreed job on time?

Also, I think a lot of men seem to think that if you're at home part time, it's a "favour" to the woman... even though they'd rather cut off their own testicles than do it themselves. As a result, women are supposed to be grateful if get to be chief-toddler-wrangler and want to do ALL the domestic tasks because they're so grateful.

Wankers.

Can’t believe you ironed the shirt.
The recycling stuff would do my head in. It’s just lazy.

The work issue is more complicated. I wouldn’t begrudge the trip away but I would be making sure I got “equal” time alone the following weekend. (By equal I mean some time alone to recover while he does some parenting).

And stop packing the bag so he can go out!!! He needs to learn to do it. What’s his incentive when you do it all?!

You need to say no and you need to stop micro-managing.

If the issue is lack of consideration towards you then you need to stop taking neutral statements and neutral actions as personal attacks against you. He said his shirt wasn't ironed. All you had to do was nod. Instead you offered to iron it and then resented doing it. He didn't ask you to iron it. And even if he had, you can still say no.

You mention the recycling box. Again, this isn't about consideration for you. You are bothered by it but your DH isn't. The box will either be taken or left. You don't need to micro-manage or resent it. In the grand scale of life, it doesn't affect you if a cardboard box is left in the bin area for another week.

Ime you either micro-manage and resent it or you let your DH manage his approach to life. The shirt not being ironed the night before bothered you but it didn't bother your Dh. Its his shirt. Ditto the cardboard box. Step back and let go.

I genuinely don't understand the Berlin issue. If I've read this correctly you have one toddler. Your DH being in Berlin overnight isn't a big deal. In our house the only conversation would have been yy its probably better to be fresh for the meeting. But then I'm just as likely to be the one saying I'm staying away. Perhaps you need that type of parity back in your relationship and that's where rebuilding your professional networks and career, comes in.

The trouble is that anything can sound like "a list of nags" to someone who doesn't get it, or refuses to get it.

I've had relationships where I could talk till I was blue in the face just trying to explain the basis building-blocks of reality, and that just came across as a list of nags.

Life is much easier/less exhausting either alone or with someone who is on the same page.

This all day long.

I am frankly gobsmacked that he didn't even bother to ask you to iron his shirt and you did it anyway. No wonder the man doesn't consider your POV when you don't do it yourself!! Hell would freeze over before I did something for someone who didn't even have the courtesy to ask me for it.

My DH is lovely, respectful and appreciative but there was a bit of what I think was weaponised incompetence for a while. My responses were always "I don't know" e.g. "when does DS have swimming lessons this week?" I dont know (we both have access to his school schedule) "how many shirts do I have clean?" I don't know. Once I even said "what would you do if I had dropped dead last week and you were in this situation? Do that". He learnt quickly and personally I learnt I can either accept that he does things differently to how I would and my choice is to accept it or do it myself.

God, what an absolute patronising bellend. I couldn't tolerate this attitude. "I'd like to see you try"...what a horrid, contemptuous thing to say to your wife. It's like these pathetic men enjoy feeling like the big I Am when their partners have given up work and sacrificed their own careers to do all the domestic drudgery.

I would stop doing anything for him. No ironing, nothing. He doesn't respect you and he sees you as a skivvy.

I'm going out with him for some supposed quality couple times tonight so I guess we will need to clear the air.

How did it go last night and how are you, knackered? I hope you're okay

All of the above is good advice.

Stop doing ANYTHING that benefits him.

He has zero respect for you and until you change, you have zero chance of him changing.

Protect yourself OP, because men like this aren't really in love with their partners.

They are too selfish to genuinely want the best for their partner and will ultimately suit themselves first, always.

Invariably women like you eventually get that and leave.

@Orgasmagorical thank you for asking. It went ok. A couple of thoughts I've had:

I'm terrible at knowing, let alone asking for what I want. I've known this about myself (other background reasons nothing to do with husband). Husband was very clear that I should do what I want, structure my week how I want (work vs childcare) and that we can pay for cleaning and anything else if it would make me happier.

He has apologised for the abhorrent comment. Said by then we were arguing and he lashed out to point score. I said it spoke of a horrible attitude that this could come out of his mouth and the fact he wanted to wound me in an argument. He said he was sorry.

I am still sad but feeling like it was good to air everything. I am now thinking about what I want and how to go out and get it. It's time I got my career and life generally where I want it.

A couple of things for those who asked...
He is definitely working in the evenings. It is a high responsibility city type job (yawn) which means he gets taxi home really late, sometimes after midnight. They are working those hours though so I'm not concerned he's not at work whoever said that.

I am annoyed with myself I ironed the bloody shirt. I have a zero ironing rule. I gave up ironing altogether about 3 years ago and I haven't ironed anything till that shirt! I told him as much. I've said sort your own shit out. When do I come downstairs saying I have no clean socks? Never. He agreed with this.

Well done OP, it sounds like your evening was more successful than I imagined it to be, and it's easy for us to get into gendered roles without even realising it.
You do need to be a lot more conscious and not pick up the slack unless it's been agreed by the two of you. To be fair to him, if he is genuinely required to work until midnight on a regular basis, perhaps it does make sense to outsource some of the cleaning and regular tasks ( he can arrange his own ironing service for example.

The one piece I'd be absolutely non negotiable about is him looking after his DD solo on a regular basis without you packing the bag, making the snack etc. etc.

That sounds positive, knackered, although him saying paying for anything that will make you happier is missing the point a bit. I hope his apology was heartfelt.

Take your time to think about what you want, talk it through here if it helps.

Good for you.

Now focus on yourself and getting what you want.

Watch yourself carefully in how much you do and step away from role as house fairy who magically fixes everything.

If you don't change YOU, you are going to find yourself stuck in a very unhappy place.

Good you had a talk with him and hopefully things get better for you.

I have to ask what his profession is?

Does sound positive and good you aired your feelings rather than keeping them to yourself. Hopefully you can move forward now.

That sounds great progress!

be cautious about the working til midnight thing - I know lots of city workers and high earners and it’s very very rare to work those hours. If he is, then maybe he should look for something that respects his family time. But that might be for another day!