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Original poster

Dd at risk of permanent exclusion

65 replies

Alwaystoblame · 25/05/2022 08:12

Following on from my previous thread about Dd there is now a meeting today to decide her future at school. She has been truant twice already this week and bullying others. She was already on her final warning. The meeting is with the headteacher and this is new as normally the head of year deals with everything. If she wants to permanently exclude Dd what can I do to help Dd? She doesn't want to go to another school and I don't want her to either although it might be best. The student who is a terrible influence is also possibly going to another school and separating the two of them would be the best thing for Dd. This might be out of my hands but any advice would be appreciated.

OP posts:
Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 25/05/2022 11:22

Teen daughter blaming me for her self harm and suicidal ideation www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4552417-teen-daughter-blaming-me-for-her-self-harm-and-suicidal-ideation

Hope that works. I know lots of people are having pr

OP posts:
JanePrentiss · 25/05/2022 11:22

Cahms involvement won't necessarily mean she can be kept off school - it might be worth making that clear to her. They would hopefully work with school, but not just give her the right to not attend. And that's if you a) get seen by them anytime soon, and b) if they are a half decent service when you do get seen.

Wrt to comments that bullies usually have trauma, sorry if this derails your thread op. But I have to bite back at tjis, quite often they don't, quite often they are bullies because they can be and they enjoy it, simpltly some bullies are just truly nasty, horrible, manipulative unpleasant peopke. It might not be the done thing to label teenagers or young adults this way, and it does not apply to them all, but it bloody well applies to a lot of them.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 25/05/2022 11:22

Problems with the new site

OP posts:
LorenzoVonMatterhorn · 25/05/2022 11:25

Is her father going to the meeting or you?

PeekAtYou · 25/05/2022 11:30

I'm really sorry. It's hard being in a situation where you know your child is going to fuck up and there's nothing that you can do. FlowersFlowers

Nothing will change until she is sorry for her behaviour and ready to make changes but with her dad sabotaging things, it will take a lot before she wakes up and realises what she needs to do for a successful life.

I think it's better that it happens now than later when there are fallbacks like going on the dole that will be tempting for someone who isn't interested in rules. Going to school and making other people's lives difficult is a waste of time for everyone. Might as well let the kids who want to learn, learn and the teachers who want to teach, teach.

Spanglemum · 25/05/2022 11:55

Can she have a managed move to another school that's prepared to take her? Does she have a social worker who could attend the meeting?

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 25/05/2022 13:35

SS aren't interested. They closed the case a few weeks back as her dad wouldn't engage and I felt like basically they couldn't be bothered. Far more children than Dd in need/at risk.

OP posts:
Johnnysgirl · 25/05/2022 13:45

Alwaystoblame · 25/05/2022 13:35

SS aren't interested. They closed the case a few weeks back as her dad wouldn't engage and I felt like basically they couldn't be bothered. Far more children than Dd in need/at risk.

Shocking that they took parental non engagement as a sign to stop their efforts, rather than see it as adding fuel to the flames of the original problem.
Terrible.

Wolfiefan · 25/05/2022 14:48

So is she coming to live with you?
TBH this is likely a result of her having no consequences for so long.
Maybe being permanently excluded will be a wake up call

Papergirl1968 · 25/05/2022 15:05

My dd (adopted with lots of issues) was permanently excluded when she was about 14 after lots of temporary exclusions. It wasn't so much bullying as defiance, disruption and rudeness.
She was moved to a school for kids with behavioural problems. It was a small school with small classes and virtually one to one. I was devastated but it wasn't a complete disaster.
Unfortunately her behaviour at home continued to deteriorate with self harming and a lot of running off, and she went back into care at 15 because I couldn't keep her safe.
I adopted as a single parent which was hard. In your case though it sounds like the ex is more of a hindrance than a help.
Could your take away her phone to stop her bullying online? That would only work with the support of her father though.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 25/05/2022 15:37

I doubt she will come back full time to live with me. Her dad is all talk and no trousers and she knows it. If he punishes her there's the risk she'll come home to me and he won't want me to have her with me and has told Dd that. So she will stay there with next to no guidance getting drunk and smoking, shoplifting and the rest.

OP posts:
orwellwasright · 25/05/2022 16:54

Behaviour is communication isn't it.

She's clearly very unhappy. Has anyone tried to find out why?

orwellwasright · 25/05/2022 16:58

Could your take away her phone to stop her bullying online?

She's 15, suicidal and about to be permanently excluded. I think we're a bit beyond taking her phone off her.

She needs serious help right now to stop get fucking up her entire life.

orwellwasright · 25/05/2022 16:59

Undiagnosed ND traits? Personality disorder? Trauma? It's good that she's engaging with CAMHS.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 26/05/2022 14:34

Just to update. Suspended this week. HT is almost certain she will be expelled but will decide during half term but advised to look for alternative schools as he is almost certain he will decide to permanent exclude. Pupil referral units were mentioned along with schools that definitely won't take her on. There are plenty of high schools within a 5-8 mile radius but it's if they will take her. She is back to blaming me because I didn't try and talk school into keeping her on. I couldn't. They presented her with evidence of her bullying, violent, manipulative and threatening behaviour and she blamed plenty of others but no one would accept that. She was on a final warning and gave her word she'd improve but she's got worse. She was predicted very high grades for her GCSEs but now her success is at risk. She gets good grades without even trying as she is very bright and capable. She's back with her dad now as I'm enemy number 1 again.

OP posts:
Legofigure · 26/05/2022 14:36

Does DD have an EHCP? If not you should apply. If she does you should ask for an early review.

I second a managed move as a way to avoid permanent exclusion.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 26/05/2022 15:13

No ECHP. She just doesn't react well to not getting her own way. Perfectly lovely most of the time if she chooses to be. I do suspect adhd but got nowhere with camhs on that.

OP posts:
Legofigure · 26/05/2022 16:26

You should apply for an EHCNA.

Original poster
Alwaystoblame · 26/05/2022 17:02

I'm not sure if she would qualify. She is very bright and capable but decides to truant and be defiant. There were no issues until the last school year when she'd been at her dad's. That's when her behaviour changed at school but she prefers being at his and he wants her there.

OP posts:
Legofigure · 26/05/2022 17:05

The threshold for an EHCNA is relatively low - a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. She should meet the initial threshold for assessment.

PonyPatter44 · 26/05/2022 18:07

Is she being abused (physically, emotionally, sexually) by her dad, or by someone in his circle? I'm wondering if that might be why she bounced between dad and mum for a while; she's angry, nasty, distressed, and looking for a victim to hurt to make herself feel better.

Hopefully its not, but it might be something for CAMHS to carefully explore with her.

For those who are upset that SS have washed their hands of an acting-out child, this is how it goes, with SS and CAMHS. There is such huge demand for their services that they can always just move onto the next desperate child, if this one won't engage.

Caken · 26/05/2022 18:07

An EHCP won’t fix the situation she’s in and it’s a long process, and she’ll only meet the threshold for that if her school isn’t meeting her needs - ie she’s not making the progress she should be, despite interventions etc. If she’s as bright as she sounds, she won’t pass the initial panel for EHCP.

Honestly, I’d move her before she gets the permanent exclusion on her record and I think that’s what the headteacher is subtly/not so subtly trying to get you to do. She can’t be permanently excluded if she’s been fixed term excluded for this latest incident - you can’t convert FTE into PX. The head is trying to nudge you into going (keeps the exclusion off their stats) and it’s not a bad idea - fresh start without a PX on her record.

I hope your daughter gets the support she needs Flowers

MadameMinimes · 26/05/2022 18:21

There is so much here that is really alarming. Your daughter’s behaviour is clearly spiralling badly, but she sounds to me like she is a young person in acute distress. She is suicidal and clearly deeply unhappy. Have the school put support in place for her or just escalating sanctions? A permanent exclusion is a very last resort and the school need to try to support her to emotionally regulate and make better choices. Your description of your daughter, to me, raises huge alarm bells. I would be amazed if there isn’t underlying trauma at to root of it. Have you considered that she may have been abused at her father’s?

Lougle · 26/05/2022 18:22

"An EHCP won’t fix the situation she’s in and it’s a long process, and she’ll only meet the threshold for that if her school isn’t meeting her needs - ie she’s not making the progress she should be, despite interventions etc. If she’s as bright as she sounds, she won’t pass the initial panel for EHCP."

This is factually incorrect. Being 'bright' is no bar for getting an EHCP. My DD just scored 98th percentile on some of her SALT assessment and 0.4th on others - she'll come out as average and I fully expect her to be issued with an EHCP because of her social, emotional and mental health needs.

No child behaves so badly for no reason and if it's affecting her behaviour to the extent that her GCSEs are at risk, she is likely to meet the criteria for an assessment at least.

Legofigure · 26/05/2022 18:25

I didn’t say an EHCP would be a quick fix for the current situation, but moving forward it would provide DD with the assessments and provision she needs, including a suitable placement. EHCPs can continue until 25, or 26 in some circumstances.

she’ll only meet the threshold for that if her school isn’t meeting her needs - ie she’s not making the progress she should be, despite interventions etc. If she’s as bright as she sounds, she won’t pass the initial panel for EHCP.

She isn’t currently having her needs met otherwise she wouldn’t be displaying the behaviour she is, have had multiple FTE and be on the brink of PEx. Although you can actually secure an EHCNA when a school could do more but won’t. The only legal threshold for an assessment is that I posted above, any other test the LA want such as 2+ years behind or lack of progress is unlawful. There are many ways of evidencing an EHCP may be needed and progress is just one of them. EHCPs are about much more than academic ability. You can be academically able and have an EHCP.

In exceptional circumstances, usually when further evidence comes to light, a PEx can begin immediately after a FTE. page 8.