He still won't propose to me

[islandgirl28]

My 'boyfriend' and I have been together for 8 years ..im turning 30 this summer, so still fairly young but about 2 years ago we started talking almost daily about wanting to have children together. By chance, I got pregnant a year ago, he suddenly lept into action and said we would get engaged after all this time .. we then had a heart-breaking experience at the 12-week scan finding out there was no baby, only a large cyst ... I will try to be blunt, I had a large, borderline (cancerous) cyst, had open surgery to remove both cyst and ovary, we were told not to try again for 6-12 months incase another cyst came back .. and worse case scenario if it did - they would want to remove the OTHER ovary also!.. 2 months later had to have keyhole to remove my appendix, we then started trying again.. and then a week ago we got back from doing IVF and freezing embryos together ....
He has been my rock throughout everything .. but I have been telling him the entire time that I never wanted to start a family with someone that did not want to marry me .. I even told him that I it wouldn't feel right to me, to freeze embryos together, without the gesture of him proposing.
He said he didn't have enough money for a ring, I said I didn't care about the ring
I may sound crazy saying the next part, but we even went to look for rings while we were away doing IVF and even ended up getting one ... He is still dragging it out and making me wait, and to be honest the whole thing is completely ruined .. I'm so angry at him
I have always felt strongly that one day I would want to get married. He said early in our relationship that he doesn't really believe in marriage but ultimately he would 'do it' to 'make me happy and when we were ready to have kids'.
He thinks the gesture of commitment that I'm looking for is in the act of him committing to freeze embryos with me - but it is different, I froze embryos with him, in the event that I end up with no reproductive organs! I feel like I have committed my whole future to him (which I want too) but he cant make a gesture of love to me
I feel like even if he does ask me now, it will just feel empty

bollocks to that - if he wanted to get married he would be happy no matter who proposes

He. Doesnt. Want. To. Marry. You.

How are you even considering children when you cant agree on marriage

Joining the chorus here saying he’s a sexist, future-faking fuckwit.

heres what I’d do. Freeze some eggs (not embryos). Tell him there’ll be no kids unless you get married and you need to actually book a date, not just talk about it. Get the legal side done and worry about the party later. He almost certainly won’t agree to this so you dump him and find someone who wants the same things as you.

You've been through so much OP.

You need to be sharing your life, troubles and happiness with someone who loves you, is committed to you and wants to spend life together with you, not someone who is clinging on to some ancient tradition and seems to want to control the trajectory of your relationship.

He doesn't want to marry you.
Please don't end up like the other women on here who stick around for the happy ending that never comes... and lose their precious fertility years in the process.

Op I really feel for you. Although it may be hard I would end it. Freeze your eggs and look for someone who is commited to you. Because he isn’t
Do you understand the legal differences between being married and not?? Because they are huge.

If you do decide to stay in the relationship and you have a child, give it your name. Babies traditionally have their mothers names. They have their dads name when their parents are married. And frankly that may be the only bit of leverage that you have

I am sorry you have been through the hell that you have been. But he sees marriage as meaningless and yet wants you to put yourself at a financial disadvantage if you should have children. Maternity leave, working part time all have an impact on your financial stability re pensions, promotions etc. Marriage offers a lot of protection you won't have if you have children unmarried. If he cannot put your and his future children's best interests ahead of his own agenda then you shouldn't be with him. The whole having a child is a big commitment is bollocks.

If he truly wanted to marry you he would have done it already. When you want something you find a way, when you don't you find an excuse. Dh and I had a discussion about timelines, ie move in together and get engaged married within a couple of years after that. When we had the this seems to be working really well discussion and yes marriage we went ring shopping. I didn't have a big romantic down on one proposal. I didn't need it. His actions toward me affirmed how he said he felt about me. That was 25 years ago.

He is dangling this carrot of marriage so you keep trying to be something that he doesn't think you are yet, you will keep trying hard to be the best girlfriend. It is a shitty thing for him to do to you. You need to sit down and talk to him but he has already tarnished this whole thing for you by buying a ring and not proposing. Definitely freeze your eggs if possible.

See, I was never romantic about marriage. Too many divorces in the family!

And the urge to have children never came.
But I was working out what I needed to retire, sorting wills etc, and I could see that if we didn't get married, we'd be liable for IHT, and I wouldn't be entitled to something from OH's defined benefit pension.

So I spoke to him about it, we rang up the registry office, booked the appointments, and got married. He didn't quibble or prevaricate.

Like PPs say, you're going to have to find a calm time to sit down and talk it through with him.
If you can't find a calm time, or if he's an idiot when you do discuss it - ah well. You're young and still have one ovary. Dump him.

If he's just been being a bit dense and goes, "Oh sorry, what was I thinking, I'll book the appointments to give notice tomorrow, what day shall we pick for the wedding?" and is convincing, well, ok then.

His lack of action should tell you all you need to know. He's not sure he wants to spend the rest of his life with you. Generally men who are sure of something go after it full force. He may love you and you him but you're wasting your time. My Mum told me when I was younger that if you make even so much as one excuse for a man you'll find yourself making excuses all your life for him. He may not have any money, he may be emotionally immature, he may not be ready job wise, he may XYZ but at the end of the day why wait around? You've been with him for 8 years and you're no more to each other than you were when you were in your early 20s.

He might be the nicest man you'll meet on a day's walk but it looks like you both want different things. Don't be scared to walk away.

I should say, the reason why I am so frustrated is because we have both said to friends years ago that we already felt married, he has committed to me in every other way. Although I am still a 'girlfriend', that is far from reality. We have lived together for 7 years and have been fairly inseparable.

He says he wants too, he just wants to try and make it still special .... but dragging it out this long is what has taken all magic out of it.
He did ask me before we went to do IVF if I wanted to just go an get married 'next week', but we both agreed that seemed like a bit of an anti-climax.. and took the excitement out of it
... maybe i'm just struggling with all that has happened and feel like it has taken the natural progression of all of it out of our hands

I did have the choice to freeze eggs or embryos ... we chose together to freeze embryos (because they are a much better bet), we already thought we were having a baby together, and we so desperately want to start a family together

I don't see marriage bringing me much financial stability, my friend has told me you both get taxed on both earnings.. and it's never been about that for me
.. I think I want recognition, from him .. and a promise to weather the storm
but in his eyes, he is convinced I already have that

Please don’t see the living together or the ‘doing IVF’ as a huge commitment. You are still just a girlfriend.

He wins in both of these things:

living together- maid, chef, admin person, sex on tap…for him

kids- someone to bear his children, who he can up and leave when he wants, and be involved as he wants with. Fathering children means nothing. Look at the absent Disney dads on here.

marriage is where he makes himself vulnerable, marriage is where he has to give. Where he has to stick his neck out and do this big public declaration making you a legal unit together……he has made it very clear he does not want to do this!

do not fall for any more future faking. He’ll marry the next woman he meets, I’m sure.

I have thought long and hard about what marriage means to me and why I think I need it
Maybe I should mention that my mum had 8 children with 4 different men, and it wasn't great for us growing up ... I'm clearly petrified of putting my children though something similar
I know marriage doesn't guarantee a long and happy relationship, but it's about intention for me

Oh god op I have been here but without the fertility aspect. I am like a PP who also split . He doesn't want to commit. Please get out now and waste no more time. There's someone out there who will really want to commit . Don't waste any more years

so why didn't you take him up on his offer of 'going to get married next week?' Marriage also means that if you split you will probably get a fairer division of assets – I don't know if you own or rent your house together right now but for example if it's all in his name you wouldn't be entitled to anything if you split. There's also the fact that you're not each other's legal next of kin. There are legal and financial reasons to do it and you should be aware of these even if they're not your priority.

I don't see marriage bringing me much financial stability
It would be in your interest to find out more, I think.

Example: Chrissie and Chris have 2 kids, Chrissie takes mat leave for both and then goes part time as childcare is so expensive, they then move for Chris' career to somewhere Chrissie will find it harder to pick up her career.
Chris meets someone at the office and leaves.
If they are not married, Chrissie has now taken a huge hit to her career, her finances, her pension, because of a joint decision for the benefit of the whole family including their joint children, and she is entitled to only what is legally in her name.

If the kids' residence is split 50/50 she can't even claim child support.

Chris can then get married again, die and leave everything to wife #2, and the kids can then try to sue the estate (at great expense) but have no guarantee at all.

If they were married Chrissie can negotiate (get court to decide if necessary) a just share of the matrimonial assets, (which include the pension plans of both of them) and it does not matter what was in whose name. Not only then does she have some pension coverage for those caring years, she has some assets that she can then make sure are left to the kids when she dies.

Never ever ever have a kid with someone outside marriage unless you're hugely richer than they are.

Also if you aren't married and die in childbirth, the baby isn't automatically officially his - there was a sad case in Wales where social workers & courts had to leap through all sorts of hoops just so the bereaved Dad could take his baby home :(

I don't think he doesn't want to marry you, he just doesn't want to marry anyone. I say this gently, but you really should've listened when he told you he wasn't the marrying kind, because clearly he meant it. Believe me, I know, I went through exactly the same thing with my DP in our early days.
So, you have a choice: you can either break up with him, knowing that he'll never give you what you want, or you can decide what's really more important – being with him, the love of your life, the man who you say in every way (but this) is your soul mate, or being married.
I chose the former. I realised that even if I left and met someone else, I would never feel the same way about them and I'd be spending that wedding day I thought I so desperately wanted knowing I was with the wrong person.
My decision came with caveats though: when we bought property together we had legal papers drawn up so in the event of us splitting we'd get equal share. I am fully financially protected. I also had to let go of being angry that he never wanted to marry me, which is where you're at now. Then we had our DC and I realised what a huge commitment that was and marriage hasn't felt as important since. We've been together nearly 18 years now and, ironically, we've outlasted most of our married friends.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Id have a long hard think on whether it’s the marriage or the wedding you want, maybe he just doesn’t want a wedding?

either that or he just doesn’t want to marry you. Actions speak louder than words as they say…

Be careful what you wish for - you may get it.

Many years ago, when I turned 30 I had been in a relationship with my then boyfriend for 5 years. I also wanted to get married, he had also, from the very start of the relationship, said that he never wanted to get married.

The year I turned 30 was also a leap year, so I 'proposed' to him...he accepted. I planned a wedding with his mother, he was totally disinterested in the whole thing. Used to 'joke' with friends that he was only marrying me 'to shut me up about it'...

Long story short, we should have never got married. I should have listened to, and believed him right back at the beginning when he said he never wanted to get married to anyone. I totally fell into the whole 'sunk cost fallacy' - I also let my Catholic mother get into my head about how we'd been together for so long, why no marriage? etc. He was a rubbish husband and I finally pulled the plug and left him after 15 years...10 later than it should have been. We shouldn't have married, we should have split up instead.

Unless you are happy with being, and are also able to support yourself and a child financially as a single parent, I wouldn't have a child with this man.

Firstly I am sorry you have been so ill .I hope you are feeling better now .I think he obviously loves you .However he is dragging his feet at this point .You have been through a lot together .As PP have said ,fathering DC is not being married.So many men put off proposing .8 years is a long time to be with someone .You will make yourself vulnerable as you have seen from you own DM. Maybe take a bit of a break ,you can collect your thoughts .If at the end of this he is not wanting to marry then there is little you can do. You are still young enough to find someone who does want to marry.

I don't think he doesn't want to marry you, he just doesn't want to marry anyone. I say this gently, but you really should've listened when he told you he wasn't the marrying kind, because clearly he meant it. Believe me, I know, I went through exactly the same thing with my DP in our early days.

I don’t agree at all, how many times on mumsnet do we hear of the guy who “doesn’t want to ever marry” and then leaves the first girlfriend and marries the next one pronto!

My own DP said he “wasn’t the marrying kind”, didn’t see the point of marriage etc etc, he had a bad family history of marriage, it was just a piece of paper, you name it!

I told him that marriage was very important to me and I wouldn’t be prepared to live my life as someone’s “girlfriend”. He proposed after just over a year and we’re about to get married!

If he wanted to marry you, he would propose. I’m sorry that sounds harsh and I’m doubly sorry about everything you’ve been through.

I know you want to believe that he is just waiting for the right time but what does that even mean?

What will the right time look like to him? Do you know?

I'm afraid I agree with the others.

This forum is littered with women who have been made the same promises and the same assurances where marriage never materialises.

He isn't going to marry you. He isn't even going through the charade of a 'long engagement'. He's kicking the can down the road with excuses

Hi
Can you just freeze your eggs. I’m really worried for you that this man is stringing you along. Bless you, what an awful situation you’ve been through. I think it’s quite cruel of him to be honest.

My DH was a bit like this in the first few years we were together. We talked all the time about what life would be like when we got married but no proposal ever came, there was always an excuse usually money related. In the end I proposed to him, it wasn't an ultimatum but I was clear if we were going to get married we did it now or not at all because I was done waiting. He accepted and bought a ring, he did propose to me one night, on one knee over a cuppa before bed (not quite what I'd imagined it to be but it was good enough). You have to be clear what you want and go for it. If it's marriage, propose yourself, if the answers no you have to go and find what you want elsewhere while you still have time. You're still very young really but time goes so fast and you don't want to waste your best years, which are just coming up xx