Teen daughter blaming me for her self harm and suicidal ideation

[Alwaystoblame]

She doesn't live with me because she is violent to her siblings and me, lies constantly, is verbally abusive, bullying others at school, truant, shoplifting, drinking, smoking, having sex, you name it. She refuses all mental health input saying it doesn't help and she just wants to move on from the past. Social services aren't interested and closed the case recently. She lives with her dad and is 15. If anyone says no to her over anything or takes her phone as punishment she self harms or threatens suicide and despite the fact she rarely sees me or communicates with me it's always my fault. Misbehaves in school and it's because I've said no to her coming her after she's threatened a friend with extreme violence and told them to Jill themselves. Her dad is very abusive and has successfully alienated her from me over the past few years. I have 2 other dc who have no issues but I'm told I'm unstable and an unfit mother by Dd and her dad. She has said she doesn't want me in her life anymore so I am respecting her wishes. Everything is still my fault though.
Has anyone got any advice on how to cope with all this please?

I expect in time she will come back to you

She is suicidal, that might not be an option or the outcome, and is one hell of an assumption to make, and one that carries serious risk.

She needs to take some responsibility to get help

Children in crisis tend to be out of options by the time they are the point of feeling suicidal, are seriously suggesting this is just her responsibility as a child? Even if they are resistant to support, she is still just a child, and as parents we still have both a moral and legal duty to be responsible and take care of them.

I am wondering if people have even read the actual thread properly to be so dismissive. It is shocking to read.

Op, I would strongly recommend that you also get some counselling organised for yourself, you can self refer on line with the NHS or pay (it is much quicker). Follow the BACP website for someone in your area.

The stronger you are, the better it will be for your dd and your other children. Getting some support to help you through this could make all the difference.

Everything that @Swayingpalmtrees says.

The mum has covered all the options its very easy to manipulate people threatening to kill yourself at 15 you know what kind of impact this can have but the daughter she refuses help ? Basically there is very little help for mental health and 15 is old enough to take some responsibility. You can not force a 15 year old to get help and she has told her mum to keep out of her life. You have not read the thread properly do you realise there is a very very long wait for counselling.

She had counselling at school but accused the counsellor of telling other staff what she had said. She had NHS counselling and was supposed to have DBT but refused to go saying it wasn't helpful to go over the past. She doesn't engage with the advice of the GP about strategies to help her anxiety.
Her dad is is 13 hours a day at work. She is often staying with her grandparent who she steals from. She says there are no boundaries or guidance at her dad's. She craves consistency at home but can't cope with any boundaries after living as she wishes for the last year or so. Her own sister doesn't want much to do with her her little brother adores her despite the abuse she throws at him. Welcoming her home results in further abuse towards me and a traumatised little boy. I can't take her away on her own as I have 2 more dc to look after and I'm a carer for my disabled mum. I'm just exhausted at the moment mentally and physically.

Erinaz

its very easy to manipulate people threatening to kill yourself at 15

Feeling/ threatening or attempting suicide is considered a serious cry for help, and it is the idea that somehow she is being 'manipulative' rather than feeling utterly desperate is a very dangerous view to take as an adult and I assume you are in no way a professional. It is in fact a pretty sure fire way of things escalating and ending very badly for the child, as they become increasingly more desperate and unheard.

Adults should always take suicide attempts/thoughts seriously.

It should never be dismissed as manipulation. Who are you to decide whether she will go ahead or not? Or what the motivations are and the cause? Your very poor judgement and advice on here could cost the life of a child.

If any child has got to the point where they are weaponising suicide they are already in crisis. Children do not self harm for 'attention' or to manipulate others to get what they want to this degree, self harming is a very painful, direct and public way of showing absolute distress. Often deep distress and needs treatment, a mental health team and many other agencies that can offer help and support to the child, and family.

Your views seem locked in an age where children's feelings and emotions were largely irrelevant and ignored, in today's world when the pandemic has ruined the mental health of so many young people you are indeed putting children in a very very dangerous position by dismissing the very real risks here. It is dreadful advice and I hope you can live with the consequences.

Op whatever your dd's reasons, take it seriously. Listen, get as much support as you can, even if you have to pay for it (The wait is not so long privately, and apps are still prioritised by need - so do tell them your dd's situation)

It is not good enough to tell a mother to walk away from a desperate child in such dire mental health, by all means parents should get support and help, and counselling, but heavens sake we are talking about a child in crisis here, to me she could be at risk from her violent and abusive father as well as the other issues, the distress signals could not be louder. Do what you can op. That is all any of us can do

It's hard not the think of her as manipulative. Last time she went to a&e for this she was posting tiktok videos of herself dancing on the ward where she was waiting for blood test results and to see the MH team, told everyone at school then complained when they knew about it. She is desperate for help but refuses everything

Has she had a full psych assessment op?
She should have been referred the first time she went to A&E.

Personally I wouldn't be paying too much attention to the tiktok posts, she could be making light of her situation as a deflection strategy. People use comedy etc in a similar way.
Most girls do not need to cut their arms and legs and attempt to kill themselves for attention and fun, there are easier and less painful ways to achieve the same aims - so despite the temptation to dismiss this as just teenage drama, please don't.
It is imperative that you at least, take her seriously, listen and love her. Whatever anyone else tells you.

My dd's friend was just like this, sitting in bed laughing and joking and posting with his wrists bandaged, after a while people called it cry wolf and switched off, sadly he died in the summer of 2020 of an overdose.
The previous attempts were trial runs, his jokes were a way to deal with the sense of embarrassment of his predicament looking back. A very teenage way to show he didn't care that he was in crisis and was 'having it large' in the hospital. He didn't make his sixteenth birthday. He followed through. His friends were horrified, two went on to attempt the same thing.

Could we have stopped him? Prevented the outcome? I don't know, but I do know that many people around him stopped trying. Stopped caring. Stopped investing time and energy into really being with him, took him at face value and left him to it.

I completely understand what you've written @Swayingpalmtrees but I also understand where you are coming from OP. Ive seen my friend distraught and coming close to collapsing herself over the last 3 years just by being on the end of constant abuse lies stealing and violence.

CAMHS staff OVER-validate children's emotions , which professionals know to be unhelpful at best and destructive at worse . She has CAMHS support on tap but not a single one has (kindly) challenged her about her anti-social behaviour. She can do wrong in their eyes and it is all her parents' fault.

A step-uncle jokingly told her she should be sent to India to take a train to Calcutta from Delhi and live off £5 a day and she would see what a good life she has. She then called childline.

Spaces in care homes aren't available and foster parents will not choose to take a 15 year old with violent tendencies. So I really do understand your pain OP as what path can you take ?

By the way, I can only say as a fellow mother of teen girls, I really really do understand how painful it is when they shut us out, shut us down, and seem to want everything but us around them. The level of rejection it is hard to take after a lifetime of loving them.
And that is without the messy things that happen to teens, the testing of boundaries with everything you hope they will never touch or do. Dealing with the helplessness that is now you, the parent. Unless you have been there it is impossible to know just how awful it can be. I am sorry that much of your life has been so hard, and yet you have come through the other side - your dd can do the same, she may need help but she can cross into adulthood and to a more stable life. She may have a psychological disorder causing many of her problems, or trauma, or her childhood may have been a very frightening experience and she has PTSD.

Whatever she is going through - be there for her, grit your teeth and refuse to stop loving her and tell her so. She is still that little girl, she is still there somewhere - but she is struggling. Good luck op

You seemed to have done everything OP. Beyond continuing the begging and being open to her, getting care for yourself and your other DC, particularly trauma-informed care, as others have suggested is the only advice I have to give. For me, learning exercises like journaling fears and resentments written as fears has been helpful, but there are other tactics that may be better for the younger kids. For her, the best I can think of is trying to find ways to get her into environments, help break her status qup, but that's hard from what you've said.

I also understand why it's hard not to see as manipulative. With adults, it's well known that threatening suicide is a tactic used by abusers and there is a lot of discussion now about not being pulled back in on that and not taking responsibility for the emotions of others. With a teenagers, it's a different developmental stage and they still require a lot more co-regulation of emotions than adults, but that's often far harder than it dounds.

I actually agree with your DD that going over the past isn't always helpful in trauma care. DBT does typically focusing on the present and future, but I can see for a 15 year old that all the talking therapies may feel like they blur together or that the rising popularity of DBT can at times mean it's stuck onto talking therapies not actually doing that. If she's on tiktok, maybe finding resoures there that might interest her on different topics like emotional regulation or on careers that interest her to give her something else for a focus?

Is there a stepparent on the scene in your home?

@Swayingpalmtrees I don't think anyone doubts this is a seriously unhappy and messed up child. But at the end of the day, and I have learnt this from bitter experience, unless the the person's behaviour is bad enough to get them sectioned, you just can't help someone who won't engage. OP has outlined the raft of services she has tried and which have been unsuccessful in getting her daughter to engage with them. What exactly do you suggest she does? Paying privately does not solve anything if the problem is her daughter failing to engage.

I can't even begin to imagine OPs frustration and desperation, and she won't be the first and last parent to be horrified watching the storm unfolding in their child's life and doing everything they can to prevent it but being unable to do so.

You don't need to terrify parents in this situation with stories of suicides, as if they are not already all to aware of this potential outcome for their own child. They know this. It still doesn't mean they can magic up the 'something' that needs to be done.

Mental health/ addictions and the whole raft of similar, are so hard because you need the patient to recognise there is a problem and want to work to get better.

If the dad was that abusive there would be a safe guarding order put in place. Please stop picking holes in my posts swayingpalmtrees sometimes the teenager doesn't want the help being offered .

She has borderline personality disorder and does not want treatment. They won’t diagnose as she’s too young. She had until she’s 18 to get anything from Camhs. She really needs meds and DBT, but probably won’t do DBT as it’s a commitment and requires effort.

we’ve been there in my family. I’ve been you. She’s really very ill; look up BPD and narcissistic parent. There is a link. This is not your fault and in my opinion you are right to keep her away from siblings for now.

And it’s called parasuicide, or suicidal gestures. Not something outsiders can really understand. Read Stop walking on eggshells.

I agree with those who have engaged with your question, sometimes one can only be there (and make it clear you will always be there) to pick up the pieces.

In similar circumstances I engaged in my own therapy, to try to understand that how my child felt was not my fault, and to find some peace with that. It helped.

Two other things-first always be honest as sooner or later it will be important that your DD knows that’s what you are, unlike others around her. She will come to see that you can be trusted. Second, putting boundaries in place is not punishment, it’s consequences. It’s not ok for her to trash your house, abuse the younger children or you, or do things that you feel are unhelpful. If she does them, and there are consequences, that is ok. You are there to listen and to support and do what you can, you being abused in whatever way is her choice, and it’s not a choice you should condone. I sometimes think there is a fine line between support and enabling, which is what my own therapy helped me to see.

I wish you luck, OP.

No one here can diagnose BPD

But yes, its probably so. Psychiatrists are not keen to diagnose teenagers with BPD or EUPD although there is research suggesting that early diagnosis and treatment provides better outcomes for these young people. DBT is focused on skills and coping strategies not on dredging up the past.

When you say its hard not to see her behaviour as manipulative, that's as clear indication as any that she probably does have BPD. It seems that people with this disorder do indeed make those around them feel manipulated. But the individual isn't purposefully trying to manipulate you.

A lot of this stems from rage, usually at the parent that they feel hasn't been able to protect them, or to nurture and validate them. The anger stems from the pain they feel, both the original pain or trauma and the added pain of feeling that those around them that should care, or understand simply don't.

So what can you do? pour in twice as much love, concern, care and understanding. And just keep doing that, on repeat. The cries for help have to be answered, the demands met without harsh judgement, the wounds bandaged without making either light of it or too much of it.

I believe that BPD is the ultimate in attachment disorder.......like attachment disorder on steroids. DBT has good results, but I would recommend the very thing she most wants to avoid......psychotherapy preferably with one that specialises in attachment.

Thank you for all the helpful replies, I appreciate them.
@lunar1 no, no step-parent here. I'm single and haven't even dated for 4 years. When with her dad she was cared for mainly by his girlfriend until they split last year. Now she is mainly cared for by a grandparent. ExH often works nights and Dd needs to stay overnight with someone else. If he's not out overnight then he's out all day and she has next to no supervision or even interaction. She is fending for herself and complains a lot about life there yet doesn't want to come home.

I have considered BPD many times but MH services just say she's stressed. She's been told for years that I am unstable, a bad mother, abusive, only interested in myself, reject her and that I abused her dad. The DARVO going on is stellar.

One day at a time, OP. Lots you cannot do, but focus on what you can do.

Kindness but protect your own sanity, are good guiding principles.

What exactly do you suggest she does?

No one here will have a magical wand sadly, but I would explore whether dd would consider art therapies for instance, then she doesn't need to talk out her feelings (there might be considerable blocks to talking about her childhood and if she is already fragile maybe she can't go there at the moment) This can include art, drama and music therapy. She might go for that, it is worth a try if she thinks it is better than the others. Quite apart from getting her feelings out of her system on paper or through movement, those types of therapies/activities are very calming and healing on their own.

Perhaps these things could be offered to her by a trusted and liked teacher or another person she feels comfortable with?

MBT might work too, if she won't do DBT maybe you could consider MBT as an alternative?

Can you get her involved with a drama club or something yoga based/meditation and strategies that are going to bring down her flight/fight response.

My father has BPD I know what a nightmare it is to live with, and I was quietly wondering the same but I strongly disagree with people diagnosing from the sofa as it can be dangerous.

Can she move in permanently with her grandparent? This would take out her father's malign influence and give her more stability?

Does she have a mentor/buddy at school? Or a point of contact teacher as a minimum?

Obviously I won't have thought of anything op hasn't considered herself in great detail, but sometimes things come up that are different.

I am going to ask you just one thing op, did you move her out to her Dad's or did she choose to go? I am wondering if she is the only that feels rejected?

@Swayingpalmtrees she chose to go to her dad's. I never wanted her to live there. Ss and court/guardian don't see his emotional abuse as enough of an issue. He's made her into his little puppet and she says all the abusive things he used to say and still does say. She has lots of support at school when she actually goes to school. Her attendance is 75% for this year. She's missed so much but is very bright and capable. She's an amazing person in so many ways and it makes me so sad that her mental health is so poor despite my best efforts.

I think this is very good advice. Hang on to the rope!