mumsnet probably kept me out of jail, DH being an absolute arsehole (sob)

[briarrose]

Hi everyone, if I didn't have mumsnet I would probably be under arrest for torture and mutilation (of DP) what a complete arsehole.

I lent the car to my stepdad over a week ago because his had died and he couldn't get to work. I'm at uni (don't drive anyway) DP is unemployed so we didn't need it, plus, my step dad has helped us out so much in the past, with money when we are skint etc and I wanted to repay the favour. DP has been on my back about it all week, and it blew up in spectacular fashion today. I got called all the names under the sun, names I don't even want to type here, he followed me round the house all day shouting, swearing, name calling, even when I practically begged me to leave him alone.

I ended up having to call step dad and tell him I couldn't let him have the car any longer, leaving him in the shit and making me feel like shit.

DP has thankfully gone to get the kids, but i'm still shaking, scared of when he gets back.

DGMW he's not physically abusive, he's just got a nasty mouth on him, and he doesn't care what he says in front of the kids.

He hasn't properly worked for 10 years, even though I have worked since DD2 was 6m old, it's times like this when I really resent him for it.

I don't like arguing anyway, so I just shut off, he then follows me around shouting and winding me up, saying that i'm just trying to wind him up by ignoring him. I know he's at the school now telling all to other mums which I hate, he insists on involving others in our arguments, telling me he thinks all my friends should know what i'm "really" like.

I get so upset when he rows, he says such personal insulting stuff, stuff he knows upsets me. Is that what normal couples do? am I just being a baby? cause it's not OK in my book.

At one point today, when I was trying to iginre this tirade I logged onto mumsnet and divided my time between alternately telling him to go away/ignoring him, and answering other people's posts. It made me feel so much calmer, and at times drowned out his voice.
This meant that my planned murder fizzled out to me just throwing my filofax at him (i'm not proud)

grrrrrrrrr

I'm angry and upset, I really don't like this side of him

why are you with him?

Sound's like he's a dick.
Kick him out hes a waste of space

He sounds foul and you are right in thinking it's not ok - it most definitely IS NOT!

You deserve better

perhaps we shpuld thinks of ways to cyber-torture him

Why doesn't he work?

believe it or not he's not that bad, it's just when we argue he's horrendous.

we've been together for 15 years

guess i'm used to it

This is abuse. If I'd been in any doubt (I wasn't) the bit about him saying people know what you're 'really like' would have clinched it. He is trying to wear you down, isolate you, belittle you.

He sounds horrd, sorry.

This is not what "normal" couples behave like at all; you're caught up in an abusive relationship. You do all the giving and he does all the taking. He has not even worked properly for many years and is quite happy for you to carry the can.

He does not have to hit you to be abusive. He is being verbally abusive towards you. He's also being emotionally abusive and controlling by trying to isolate you from your friends.

He's certainly not a good role model for your children to follow if he's swearing at you in front of them. What are they learning from the two of you regarding relationships, that its okay for their Mum to be treated like rubbish?. Would you like your daughters to end up with someone like this man as adults?.
Of course not.

See this for what it really is. Would suggest you contact Womens Aid and read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft.

So sorry briarrose . This is terrible. Abusing you for helping someone out.

Will he be likely to apologise when he cools down?

he may apologise, he has done in the past

He has worked in the past, but left due to depression about 10 years ago, since then he has done occasional part time work.

He's great most of the time, but when we argue he can be so horrid and make me feel like absolute crap

I hate arguing and say to him when we argue that i'm not going to talk to him all the time we are arguing. He then says that I am only doing it to wind him up. I've tried telling him that he turns into a complete bully but he just can't see it. says i'm being manipulative by winding him up and then walking away, that's really not what i'm doing, I just don't believe that arguments don't sort anything out so I don't see the point, it only ends up as a way of picking things wrong with each other.

I don't think it's bad enough to leave, the relationship is OK normally, I just don't know how to make him see how much he's hurting me when he gets like this. I tried broaching the subject casually, but that ended up in ahuge row because he felt I was trying to pick an unecessary fight. I daydream that i'm on a reality show and that when it's played back he'll say, "Oh right, didn't realise I was being like that" how sad!!!!

I hope when he's 'great' he is really bloody fantastic - otherwise you really should not be putting up with that treatment. If your dc witness it they will think this is normal couple behavior and will enter relationships that are the same, or even worse.

You know what - I was just thinking about asking you what he might do if he heard himself and then you wrote about your daydream above.

Would you consider taping him (without him knowing of course) during one of his rants and then playing it back to him when things are chilled? Just audio - video isn't needed.

He needs a wakeup call. I reckon that would do it

Oh that's the part I totally hate, if I walk off to tend to them he will follow me mouthing off as he goes, then accuses me of using the kids.

No he's normally a good guy, the working thing is a big problem, although he is trying now. I just want him to stop being such an arsehole. and when he says he'll tell everyone what i'm really like, well I know i'm not that bad, that i'm normal (I think!) but he twists everything and would tell people stuff that just isn't true. He wanted to phone my stepdad today to "tell all" and that upset me, I don't get on with my Mum, and my step dad is in fact just my mum's partner, but he's the closest thing i've ever had to a parent who gives a shit, I was so worried that DP would turn him against me.

I phoned step dad in the end, because I was worried, he just said he's always believe in me whatever anyone said, very reassuring.

I'm sure tonight or tomorrow DP will come round, and normally I do too, but when he approached me earlier to "talk normally" I just told him not to speak to me for a very long time. Other than throwing my filofax at him it's the only way to stand my ground.

Normally I could talk my way out of any corner and I don't take crap from people lying down, when the abuse and insults start I just curl up inside, that's why I don't speak to my Mum, I grew up with that kind of crap, the only way I can handle it is to retreat, my best defence is silence, but he just doesn't get it. I have literally moved from one room to the other begging him to leave me alone and stop arguing, but he won't. Then he says stuff to drag me into it and when I lose it and start shouting he will say i'm loopy or have got an aggression problem

I hate it.

Realistically rows are not all that frequent, but just lately he's got a zillion times worse, it hasn't always been this bad. If it had we would never have lasted this long

I was about to say 'tape him'.

I wouldn't say 'leave him' but this needs to change IMO.

It does sound as if he HATES you withdrawing from him, and that he doesn't understand what it is about his behaviour that triggers that reaction in you.

Did his parents have quite a shouty, volatile or abusive relationship? Does he think it is normal to behave like this?

I always say 'Relate' but i'm gonna say it again. You must be feeling rubbish. Hope things improve.

Briarrose - I think its such a shame you say you grew up with this kind of crap being thrown at you, and here you are with a man who does the same. I can understand why you go silent, you are used to it. It needs to stop though, doesn't it ? Or your dc will also end up in relationships like this. You have probably lasted so long with him because you are used to such treatment and think it sok when it is not.
Hope things get better.

It may be that he in fact feels guilty and useless and thinks he doesn't deserve you, and all the things he is saying about you are what he actually thinks about himself ("twinkle twinkle little star what you say is what you are" actually has a foundation).

It doesn't mean that you should put up with it. But maybe he is trying to get you to talk to him but doesn't know how. IME men often "project" their own feelings of anger, upset and disappointment with themselves onto women when they don't know how to express themselves.

Is he perhaps jealous of you giving attention to your stepdad instead of him? He may actually have very low self-esteem. But FWIW I think you need to stand up to him and speak your mind. Refusing to discuss/argue could be quite inflammatory ie the more you walk away the more he tries to wind you up.

What is his reaction usually when the dust has settled to these types of confrontation?

you do know dont you, that by giving in to his bullying, you have only told him that the louder he screams, and the worse words he uses, the more likelyhe is to get his way?
you should NOT have recalled the car. you should have stood your ground. in one ear, out the other.
the issue isnt his employment or lack of it. it is his control over you. i know all this, because i have a similar dh. but, if i stick to the battles i want to. he has learnt that shouting and screaming will not get him anywhere.
treat him like you would a child. if he doesnt say please and thankyou, he doesnt get his way.

lots of positvie vibes for you.

Cross-posted with you Briarrose. Sounds like he has a lot of issues. I may be out on a limb here but you withdrawing may trigger something for him from his childhood too. If he is not physically threatening then maybe you need to stop withdrawing and tell him ie that if he will calm down and let you settle the children then you will discuss it with him in x minutes.

It is probably not about the car or your stepdad at all.

He can normally admit that he shouldn't have gone on, but he claims I made him. The only thing that really stops him is if I go absolutely mental and shout back, calling him horrid things. I rarely do that though becasue I really don't believe in insulting the person you love so badly.

I'm not the best communicator, well with him anyway, he can be really tactless, and when i've asked him what he likes about me he is stumped, he's asked me to name my good points in the past, convinced I don't have any. Then when we are calm he will say he doesn't deserve me.

I do think it's a self esteem issue. His parents divorced when he was small and he went through a bad depression when he was a teen. His Dad is a complete waste of oxygen and doesn't bother with him, despite DP desperately trying to get a relationship going with him. I know that has made a difference, and affected him, and years ago I used to try and work through it with him, but you'd think by now he'd see how distructive he's being

I think the key is that he doesn't believe he deserves you.

Has he ever tried counselling? Would he go?

Definitely sounds like he is trying to get a reaction from you. I don't mean to be unsupportive and am just trying to help but both my mother and my DH have done the "silent treatment" with me and it drives me crazy. It can come across as if you are being superior.

I think you both need to find less destructive ways of communicating, ie to stay in your "adult" as much as possible. (I know you have visited the other thread so you will know what I mean ). His upset over you lending the car may not seem rational to you but we can all be like this at times. It is not ok for him to insult you though and he needs to address this too.

pukkapatch I did smile at your post, "treat him like a child" I have ended up doing that, and I end up feeling really bad because on the occasions I have bitten back he's gone silent while i've ranted at him about being an arse, and he's just stood there literally like a kid getting a bollocking!

Pages you are so right, it is me turning my back on him that winds him up, but I really cannot argue with im, he won't let me finish my sentences, says things that aren't true etc, it is so infuriating I don't know what else to do. I have tried saying to him that if he lets me sort the kids out I will talk to him afterwards. His response is usually "but you won't" so I make a point of doing it when I say I will, but that approach only works if it isn't a full scale row.

He did have counselling years ago, but his counsellor was crap. I don't know if he would go now, I don't think he realises how bad he has become. When I broach the subject he usually manages to push the blame onto me and claims I treat him badly. I really don't think I do though, I don't do anything to intentionally make his life hard. I really think he has chronic low self esteem and is indeed projecting that onto me.

I do love him very dearly, he got me through a lot of bad times with my Mum, but he didn't have a relationship before we met, and he has never seen his Mum in a normal relationship.

I guess if I really tried I could counsel him during these arguments, a lot of what you are saying Pages is very accurate, but shamefully I don't want to, when he starts shouting and name calling I just don't want to know. In my mind i'm like a child saying "how could you" I can't believe he would want to hurt me that much. The things he says are truly disgusting. I remember one bad row when one of the kids came up to me and said 'Mummy, what's a F**G C*T" I had left the room and he's been swearing about me, kids in the room and they naturally wanted to know what it means. When that sort of thing happens I don't care about his issues because i'm too busy trying to smooth over what he has said to the kids.

He admits afterwards that he shouldn't say it infront of them, and it's not that often anymore it happens, but it still does.

I know he needs help and a shoulder to cry on, he really is not a bad guy. He's just so low on himself. He has no role model at all, and I can see how that's hard for any adult. As i'm a student and he's unemployed we couldn't afford counselling

Thanks for all your posts, need to really sort this out, but not quite sure how.

anyway, am off to bed to watch a film and sulk into my glass of wine, just in case any of you wonder where i've gone and think i've done away with im, or he's done away with me!!!

will let you all know how this pans out, any suggestions are more than welcome

He is abusing you - so sorry to say.

Certain examples from Women's Aid site:

What are the signs of domestic violence?

Destructive criticism and verbal abuse: shouting/mocking/accusing/name calling/verbally threatening

Disrespect: persistently putting you down in front of other people, not listening or responding when you talk, interrupting your telephone calls, taking money from your purse without asking, refusing to help with childcare or housework.

Threats: making angry gestures, using physical size to intimidate, shouting you down, destroying your possessions, breaking things, punching walls, wielding a knife or a gun, threatening to kill or harm you and the children.

Denial: saying the abuse doesn't happen, saying you caused the abusive behaviour, being publicly gentle and patient, crying and begging for forgiveness, saying it will never happen again.

He needs to realise this is completely unacceptable and TBH I wouldn't be staying with him. It will be hard to leave but any life is better than an absued one.

He can get counselling on the NHS, probably anger management too.

I agree that it is bullying behaviour and the swearing and name calling really isn't acceptable. But they have been together for 15 years and have dc together and I am trying to understand where his anger is coming from. Also Briarrose, you have mentioned that you can yell and that you have ranted at and insulted him too. Sometimes it can be a bit of a two way thing.

I am not saying that this is you at all, Briarrose, but my mother was very good at playing the injured martyr and forcing the men (and others) in her life further and further into the role of abuser. Sometimes it is a communication problem.

I was wondering whose is the car? Do you and your DP share it? And did you consult him before lending it to your stepdad? If not, maybe it is this that he got upset about. Maybe he is very sensitive about the fact that he is not working and saw you removing the car as a slight towards him (ie he doesn't do anything anyway so why even bother asking him). I personally wouldn't lend our car to anyone without consulting DH and both of us agreeing, just out of resepct to him.

My DH can also simmer on things that don't seem rational or reasonable to me and then suddenly blow up about it. I have learned though that just because I don't feel a certain way it doesn't always mean that he shouldn't.

I apologise if any of this is off track but my DH was similar when we first met, never swore or shouted in the way that you describe, but he was a bit of an irrational nightmare, engineering arguments for the sake of it. It all laregly stopped when we got married, and therefore felt more secure, and occasionally it does pop up again when he is under pressure or stress or is upset about something. If I had just left him I would have missed out on a wonderful relationship and life together.

I think you need to talk to him when you are both calm and explain that you can't and won't put up with this bullying and verbal abuse, no matter what, and discuss how you can BOTH improve your ways of communicating, ask him why he gets so mad, and what it is he wants from you too.