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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you feel when you argue?

65 replies

ScatteredMama82 · 10/05/2022 21:14

If my DH and I have a disagreement I get really anxious. When I get anxious it goes straight to my guts, I feel sick, I get diarrhoea. My heart races and I can’t concentrate on anything. It continues until we resolve it/make up.
It makes me irrational, I want disagreements resolved instantly and realistically I know that’s not going to happen.
It’s not normal to feel
this way is it?

OP posts:
ScatteredMama82 · 11/05/2022 16:06

Stormchaser1502 · 11/05/2022 10:54

So glad I found this.
I feel physically ill for about 3 days after a disagreement. I feel vulnerable and scared of abandonment. I don’t feel good enough.
He however just stands tall and as if nothings happened. He is just cold in my eyes when this happens. But to me my entire world has imploded. I can’t eat, sleep etc.

im wondering if it’s something from my childhood. A deep rooted fear.

Id LOVE to not have this. I’m sure we wouldn’t row as much as I wouldn’t feel so pathetic

@Stormchaser1502 I'm sorry you feel this way too. The links earlier in the thread about anxious attachment will probably ring true for you too. How do you resolve things? Do you find you are the one reaching out, trying to make peace?

OP posts:
PolynesianParadise · 11/05/2022 16:45

MNers always try their best to break up relationships. I don't understand why. Making Barbs about your relationship not being sustainable...as if they'd know. 🙄

Stormchaser1502 · 11/05/2022 16:49

ScatteredMama82 Yes I’m always the one to resolve. But I feel I let myself down because I almost end up begging. And if I’m honest it’s often not for me to be apologising for but I just want it over with. Dh is a shouter then He goes into his cave. Both of these make me feel horrific. I hate being shouted at..it makes me feel useless and a failure. Then going into his cave almost seals it all.
This is his way I know..but I just can’t handle it well. I’d love to know a script to use to empower me and make me feel enough.

I’ve looked at the above link..it really does ring true.

my heart goes out to all the others here who feel the same vulnerability

ScatteredMama82 · 11/05/2022 16:51

Stormchaser1502 · 11/05/2022 16:49

ScatteredMama82 Yes I’m always the one to resolve. But I feel I let myself down because I almost end up begging. And if I’m honest it’s often not for me to be apologising for but I just want it over with. Dh is a shouter then He goes into his cave. Both of these make me feel horrific. I hate being shouted at..it makes me feel useless and a failure. Then going into his cave almost seals it all.
This is his way I know..but I just can’t handle it well. I’d love to know a script to use to empower me and make me feel enough.

I’ve looked at the above link..it really does ring true.

my heart goes out to all the others here who feel the same vulnerability

I feel your pain, I really do. My DH doesn't shout, he never raises his voice but it's the withdrawing that gets me. It makes me act ridiculous, I overreact, cry, beg. Not good. We're both dealing with it badly, but I do feel like at least I try to talk and resolve which has to be better than shutting down completely doesn't it?

OP posts:
D0lphine · 11/05/2022 17:18

I just can't get my head around the shouting.

I'd never shout at anyone unless they had literally done something so so awful (ran over the dog for example).

I'd never ever shout at someone for a minor frustration.

So when someone shouts at me I think it's really really bad.

But in fact it's just a minor frustration.

But then I think for fucks sake! Just say what's annoying you in a normal fucking way and We can discuss. No need to shout and throw your weight around. It's pathetic. You're not a child, so don't shout.

Stormchaser1502 · 11/05/2022 18:37

I feel that any telling off takes me back to being a child. I wasn’t hugely secure in my childhood, especially around my father. So I think the link is there. Constantly wondering if I was getting his approval and acceptance. So when I row now with Dh, I feel the same immense panic. To the pit of my stomach.

But how can we change this

ScatteredMama82 · 29/07/2022 23:00

So I’m back here again. Have gone out for a walk to escape the atmosphere and give him space. He’s still got shit going on at work. He’s feeling crap about himself. Tonight was ridiculous though. All was fine until he went up to put youngest to bed. Couldn’t find youngest’s medication. It was about 12 inches from where it normally is. I found it, he went silent and fuming. Told me he doesn’t see the point in being in the house with us if he can’t even do simple tasks. He’s now cold, distant, refusing to speak to me or make eye contact, is sitting in the spare room reading to avoid me.

OP posts:
AnxiousAttachment · 29/07/2022 23:57

ScatteredMama82 · 29/07/2022 23:00

So I’m back here again. Have gone out for a walk to escape the atmosphere and give him space. He’s still got shit going on at work. He’s feeling crap about himself. Tonight was ridiculous though. All was fine until he went up to put youngest to bed. Couldn’t find youngest’s medication. It was about 12 inches from where it normally is. I found it, he went silent and fuming. Told me he doesn’t see the point in being in the house with us if he can’t even do simple tasks. He’s now cold, distant, refusing to speak to me or make eye contact, is sitting in the spare room reading to avoid me.

I am an anxious attacher with an avoidant attacher husband.

We have made quite good progress recently but we are BOTH having to work at it.

I found a really good article that I sent him a while back that describes him to a tee. I'll see if I can find it. It was very helpful in understanding him. He found it helpful too in understanding himself and recognising some of his behaviours (avoidant attachers can be a bit oblivious as they deal with things by ignoring, packaging them away).

We spent a good chunk of our last holiday talking about it and how he feels and how I feel. And trying to think about how we could move forward.

What's interesting is both attachment styles come from a place of insecurity. When I feel insecure I feel anxious, lost, without anchor, sometimes panicky. I feel like the rug has been pulled from under me and I am emotionally flailing. It makes me want reassurance and connection to make me feel ok again (although I do sometimes push him away too).

When he feels insecure he thinks "well the only person I can rely on is myself" and he shuts down emotionally and pushes it away. His superpower though is that he can then just get on with his day as if nothing has happened! But is super distant and not connected to me at all which feels pointless and lonely from my perspective.

It was quite difficult to get him to understand that there was any point to connecting properly and being vulnerable with someone as he'd never really done it so hadn't experienced it. He was quite capable at getting on with things and his life without this "connection" and he wasn't sure what the point was. I managed to persuade him that he was missing out and after a LOT of talking we've made some quite good in roads. We do have mis -steps (when things can flare up super quickly!) where we revert back to old communication styles but we seem to be getting quite good as getting things back on track when this happens.

A lot of what we are doing is trying to listen to each other without reacting. If the other person says something perceived as hurtful, the other person tries not to have that knee jerk reaction but instead check in with what they meant. Calling each other out if we revert to old communication styles. Reassuring each other that we love them and making sure that he knows he can rely on me. When my husband can see I am feeling unanchored he's become quite good at holding me and reassuring me, whereas before he'd shut down or withdraw and make me feel so much worse. Interestingly when we talked about this it was because when I was struggling it makes him feel guilty and as that felt bad he'd shut down.

The other thing we've said is to be completely honest with each other about how we feel. DH has a tendency to not say how he feels until it boils up and it'd all come out at once, or leach out as resentment. I would not say how I felt as I worry about him detaching. So we've stopped that as that's obviously really unhelpful as neither of us knew what was really going on with the other which led to a lot of misunderstandings and arguments.

I've also worked a lot of self-soothing.

Anyway not a great pairing as others have said but also remarkably similar underneath all the defence mechanisms we've set up for ourselves. I think it is possible to work on it. But it needs to come from both of you. And it's probably going to be a constant work in practice. Personally I don't think it's possible just to do it from your side, as an anxious attacher myself I think that would be too hard.

I'll post some links below to some resources I found really helpful...

AnxiousAttachment · 29/07/2022 23:59

Herd's that article written by the avoidant attacher:

www.self.com/story/avoidant-attachment-style

AnxiousAttachment · 30/07/2022 00:22

This video is brilliant (and funny)...

Why you will marry the wrong person!....

Makes you realise why anxious attachers are attracted to avoidant attachers and vice versa.

And why if you just ditch this relationship without addressing your attachment style (or at least being more aware) you might just end up with another avoidant!

AnxiousAttachment · 30/07/2022 00:30

Loads of stuff by Brene Brown is great especially her stuff on vulnerability. When you are an avoidant or anxious attacher you have trouble being vulnerable with about her person. It also makes you think about your communication and what's really going on.

I, like Brene, are a blamer 😳😩

So this one is really interesting but you might have to watch it a few times as she goes quite fast!

AnxiousAttachment · 30/07/2022 00:32

Sorry that's meant to say:

"When you are an avoidant or anxious attacher you have trouble being vulnerable with another person."

One of the things we have been working on is trying to feel vulnerable with each other. However uncomfortable that makes us feel. But also building trust by hearing the other person when they are vulnerable and being open and reassuring. Easier said than done!

AnxiousAttachment · 30/07/2022 00:52

ScatteredMama82 · 29/07/2022 23:00

So I’m back here again. Have gone out for a walk to escape the atmosphere and give him space. He’s still got shit going on at work. He’s feeling crap about himself. Tonight was ridiculous though. All was fine until he went up to put youngest to bed. Couldn’t find youngest’s medication. It was about 12 inches from where it normally is. I found it, he went silent and fuming. Told me he doesn’t see the point in being in the house with us if he can’t even do simple tasks. He’s now cold, distant, refusing to speak to me or make eye contact, is sitting in the spare room reading to avoid me.

OK I'm trying to think about what is going on here for him. Obviously a massive over reaction but I am guessing like us you've had years of miscommunication, poor communication, triggering each other and reinforcing each other's "core beliefs". Tiny things can therefore set either of us off. Or like my DH there's been stuff brewing for months that he's ignored/buried and/or not said because he doesn't think he'll be heard or because he doesn't want to upset you, and this is the straw that caused a reaction.

One thing that triggers my DH is feeling like he's a failure/not capable. I wonder if something like that is going on here with his comment about not being able to do simple tasks. He feels useless? It's triggered negative feelings/beliefs about himself and therefore his defence mechanisms so he's shut down?

So this is all about him and not you. It's important to remember that.

He needs space when he is experiencing difficult emotions is what one of the key things picked up from the article. It takes a long time for avoidant attachers to process emotion. Whereas I need to talk and be with someone, my DH needs space and time to think before he can talk.

Do you think you can leave him to it and try to talk to him when he's calmed down/processed? Can you do something for you to help you self soothe? Read a book? Take a bath? Remind yourself that the fact he is detaching is nothing to do with you and what he feels for you (I know it doesn't feel like that!).

And then maybe tomorrow start trying to address this with him? You mentioned relationship counselling in your earlier posts. Maybe that can help you work through this. Attachment styles are formed in childhood. I think they are really hard to change.

Personally though I would be making it clear to him that doing nothing is not an option for you. It's not ok for him to continue with behaviour like not talking to you. He needs to own his behaviour and if he needs space he needs to say that's what he needs without rejecting you at the same time. He's probably not able to do this yet but not doing anything to work towards it is non negotiable.

Obviously you do have the option of leaving if its past that and you just don't want to tolerate it and/or try to "fix" it.

If you do want to fix it, my DH found that article I posted really helpful is "seeing" his behaviour and what he was doing. Do you think your DH would be receptive to reading something like that? Sometimes it helps to hear it from a third party.

Anyway I've waffled on enough. I hope some of that is helpful and if you want to chat about avoidant husbands I'm up for that! They are a challenge. But I'm not without my challenges also!

ScatteredMama82 · 31/07/2022 23:46

@AnxiousAttachment I can’t thank you enough, it feels so validating to see your experience written here. I can see so many similarities and that is very reassuring. I took myself away from the situation on Friday night by going for a long walk. When I returned, he had calmed down and he apologised for his reaction, while trying to explain to me how he was feeling. I didn’t push him to talk or pester him. It was a huge effort from both of us but it felt good.
We have actually got to a point about 9 years ago when I told him I couldn’t live with him any longer. I was fully ready to move out and divorce him. I didn’t have names for the way we were triggering each other, I know now it was that anxious attachment and avoidance talking. That shocked him into making a huge effort to communicate better. I find though in times of stress we slide back into our old ways. It’s not just me making the effort to control my reactions though, he is too. I will read much more about these attachment types and we’ll talk about it. So much will ring true for him too, I think he will be relieved that there is a reason for the way we react, and it’s not just ‘us’!
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that down, hopefully one day I can do the same for someone else.

OP posts:
AnxiousAttachment · 03/09/2022 15:25

ScatteredMama82 · 31/07/2022 23:46

@AnxiousAttachment I can’t thank you enough, it feels so validating to see your experience written here. I can see so many similarities and that is very reassuring. I took myself away from the situation on Friday night by going for a long walk. When I returned, he had calmed down and he apologised for his reaction, while trying to explain to me how he was feeling. I didn’t push him to talk or pester him. It was a huge effort from both of us but it felt good.
We have actually got to a point about 9 years ago when I told him I couldn’t live with him any longer. I was fully ready to move out and divorce him. I didn’t have names for the way we were triggering each other, I know now it was that anxious attachment and avoidance talking. That shocked him into making a huge effort to communicate better. I find though in times of stress we slide back into our old ways. It’s not just me making the effort to control my reactions though, he is too. I will read much more about these attachment types and we’ll talk about it. So much will ring true for him too, I think he will be relieved that there is a reason for the way we react, and it’s not just ‘us’!
Thank you so much for taking the time to write all that down, hopefully one day I can do the same for someone else.

I am so sorry @ScatteredMama82 that I didn't reply to your post above. I didn't get (or didn't see) an alert for it so didn't know you'd replied. Your thread suddenly popped into my head today and so I looked for it to see if you'd responded/how you were getting on.

It definitely is a work in progress still for us (and I am guessing it will likely be something we always need to work at), and I completely resonate with what you said about reverting back in times of stress. It's like our default and unless we are consciously trying to do things differently, we slip. I have to say though that we do recognise this much more quickly and recover more quickly which is a positive but I we are still having the occasional big fall-out which I would like to stop. I think because his default is shutting down, sometimes it takes a really big argument for him to be jolted out of it - a bit like you getting to the point of divorce as you mentioned above. I want to get to a point where we can BOTH recognise and adjust behaviours BEFORE any drama and significant upset.

Anyway how are you both getting on, was he receptive when you spoke to him? Have you both been able to make any changes?

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