What to do about this with my mum in these circumstances? Really desperate for help

[Whattpdo1]

Don’t want to drip feed but in essence me and my mum have had a rocky but close relationship over the years. I’ve been told by multiple therapists and friends that I was severely emotionally abused/neglected as a child and I’ve always carried with it an underlying anger towards my parents for this. I won’t go into the detail but suffice to say that most therapists over the years have labelled it at the ‘extreme end’ of emotional neglect. I’ve battled with huge issues growing up and as an adult (now late 30s) and have managed to carve a good job and decent pay and have lots of friends, though romantic relationships have been hard for me.

That said above, whatever anyone says, it’s not as simple as ‘my parents were shit.’ They we’re often shit but there was also lots of times of love and crucially, I know that the majority of the time my parents did want the best for me, they just didn’t have the tools themselves to be great parents on the emotional side.

my relationship with them both (they are still married) was never great but we were a close family. My sister was the one that they were closer to but we were a family. I have, admittedly, a terrible temper with my mum to the point where I would scream and shout and swear at her often. I am not like this with anyone else, just her, and it completely relates to the background of our relationship. In fairness to her, in the last ten years she has been very different and as a person I can she she is good and decent and really did want a relationship with me and valued that. But deep down I don’t forgive some of the things she said that damaged, forever, how I saw myself.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I found out I was pregnant. I wanted to keep it quiet for a while so didn’t say. During that time we had a row, as we often do every few weeks, I told her to fuck off, and this time, she did. Usually we would speak again one way or another but basically this time it’s been silence.

I am NOT excusing what I said to her and in many ways I don’t blame her this time for actually fucking off like I put in the text. I haven’t written the background to this to excuse my behaviour but more because crucially, now, I genuinely believe she doesn’t care if I am dead or alive. And this has been my fear since I was a child, that they just didn’t care. So it’s like this has now come true, she doesn’t.

I want to speak to her mostly because I’m pregnant and need my mum. But I am angry she hasn’t been in touch and part of me wants to know how long she will actually leave this. Being honest, I also don’t know how to engage in any conversation with her that doesn’t make me on the back foot because ultimately I hate the things she did to me and I KNOW the only reason I get angry quickly with her and nobody else is because I have this pent up resentment always under the surface.

My mind is such a mess though because:

1. I’m an adult and shouldn’t tell her to fuck off no matter what
2. nothing that happens now as between me and her will change the past and she has actually apologised and acknowledged the failings to me before and she seemed genuine and was crying and said she could only say sorry over and over and that she knew better now
3. i am feeling increasingly sad that I we are not talking during my pregnancy. This is the longest we have ever not spoken.
4. in not speaking to her, automatically my dad will not communicate with me as they are a team and that’s that, they operate as a unit, so I am missing that relationship too (not that he was perfect either, but that’s another story!)
5. im basically just sad and low and having them in my life is hard but they are not really awful people. In fact a few weeks before this argument happened they had given me a significant amount of money. Not that that cancels out childhood emotional neglect but it shows there is care there and they do mean well these days.
6. if she rang me by mistake I would call back straight away but I feel there’s no way in now and my fear that she doesn’t care has come true. If I contact her how will I ever know if she would have contacted me?

I think you need to reach out. She’s giving you the space you wanted.

@KangarooKenny I don’t think it’s that though. She’s intentionally not speaking to make a point that it’s not ok to speak to her like that.

i don’t know how to get in touch. I don’t feel I can honestly apologise for my temper with her because she has been so cruel to me in the past that the only reason I lose my temper is because I am so easily triggered by her. It’s not a black and white situation and I know I’m not in the right in this instance either. It’s just so hard.

What would you consider awful people if not your parents who abused and otherwise mistreated you in childhood?. You've ended up having therapy because of what they did.

Abusers are not abusive all the time but their nice/nasty cycle towards their chosen target is a continuous one. Sadly I think you were not a close family at all; more like a dysfunctional and abusive one and people from those end up playing roles. What were/are your roles here?. You may have been given all the material things but emotionally you were and remain neglected; that sticks around. Your sister was more favoured (is she very much like your mother) and that likely remains the case even though such roles are interchangeable. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so need a willing enabler to help them. She has that in the shape of your father; a weak bystander of a man who cannot be at all relied upon. He has failed to protect you from his abusive wife and thrown you under the bus here repeatedly to save his own skin. He looked and continues to look the other way; he would rather you his daughters cop her excesses of behaviour than he.

I think you have finally found your long overdue anger and told her accordingly. Let's hope she respects that boundary you've laid down. Neither she nor your dad are the kind and loving parents you perhaps still want them to be and its not your fault they are the ways they are. Self preservation is needed and you're also saying no more to being further abused.

If parents are too toxic/difficult for YOU to deal with it is the SAME deal for your child also. Keep your child well away from your parents and sister going forward.

Reading and or posting on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages could also help you deal with any FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) you have. You do not need parents who emotionally neglected you in childhood; your parents abjectly let you down by abusing you as they did. They have never apologised nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions have they?.

"In fact a few weeks before this argument happened they had given me a significant amount of money. Not that that cancels out childhood emotional neglect but it shows there is care there and they do mean well these days".

I am afraid not.

Abusive people can and do use money as a means of further obligating their chosen target i.e you in this instance and furthermore using that as a means of further controlling you. I would return the money asap; you really do not want to be under this level of obligation. Giving you money does not change that you were abused and that they are potentially still abusing you. You owe your parents nothing after the vile abusive ways they treated you and they're still trying it on by using money.

I am going to answer this from the pov of a mother who has always had a difficult relationship with her own daughter. At some stage the mother feels that there is nothing more or new that she can do, so she withdraws. This does not mean that the mother doesn’t love her daughter, just that some Mother/daughter relationships can be problematic. Your mum is tired and has had enough of the “drama”. I believe that if you still want your mum in your life, you will have to make the first move. But, and it’s a big “ but”, you cannot continue to take out your feelings, about past wrongs, on your mum. She has already told you how sorry she is and the past cannot be changed, so what more do you want if her behaviour is now different? If you need more than what your mum has already given in the apology stakes, then you have to be open and tell her what that is. She is protecting herself from further accusations and verbal abuse from you by removing herself from the situation where this happens. OP, I am sorry for what you are going through and if you can afford it, therapy might help you both to move forward as you are on a destructive loop of behaviour.

Congratulations on your pregnancy.

@MigsandTiggs thanks. I think that is definitely what has happened. There is so much sadness there for me that I hate she doesn’t recognise. She thinks we have all moved forward and I’ve got a good life and how dare I swear at her and tell her to fuck off. But I have such a short fuse with her that I DO blame her for so much.

in terms of how I approach it now, what do I do? I don’t know how to open the conversation at all without it seeming like I am in the wrong. Whilst I accept I shouldn’t have sworn I know for a fact she messed me up beyond belief and my anger towards her is embedde in this . I just don’t think I can cope with the sadness given my pregnancy if we don’t speak.

My sister was in a v similar position and a row where she told my mum to fuck off ended in then not speaking for nearly two decades despite my bro and dad trying tk sort it out

they’ve reconciled now but there’s a huge amount of sadness and regret that they didn’t just sort it out before it became a massive rift

I could have written this OP. I’m not sure my childhood constitutes emotional neglect but I certainly wasn’t close with my Mum and have no real memories of her “caring” for me. She is a selfish woman who talks a lot about family etc but doesn’t really practice what she preaches. I feel her lack of interest led to me being a victim of CSA as well ultimately she was happy to palm me off for an easy life - straight into the hands of an abuser. She holds no guilt over that though and doesn’t see that was her mistake.

I find her company really difficult and recently, especially, struggle to be in her company.

i have told her I feel like we just bicker and she bickered about bickering, so it’s really difficult to move forward. I acknowledge my part but she won’t hers (I’ve never touched on our past).

i don’t have any advice but I know I’m not always reasonable because I have such a short fuse with her. This is an absolute occasion where you’d benefit from reaching our first I think.

@Womanface thanks. What do I do though? How do I open up a conversation?

this has also reinforced to me the fact that is it very much ‘them’ and me. As if felt throughout my childhood. My dad clearly doesn’t care about his daughter, it’s his wife he’s loyal to.

@HotDogKetchup thanks. How do I do this? I can’t shake the fact that essentially my dad has also stopped speaking to me…just like it was as a child. Them v me. I’m supposed to be his daughter. Blood isn’t always thicker than water is it!

She's right, that it's not ok to speak to her like that - and her not contacting you is the way she knows how to try and make that point to you.

What have you spoken with your therapists about in terms of boundaries and expectations of the relationship you can seek from your parents?

Are you seeing a therapist at the moment? Being pregnant, I imagine, will trigger all sorts of memories and emotions about your childhood, so I would recommend seeing one now if you can as it does sound as though you have unresolved issues.

What is your current relationship with your sister like? Is she able to engineer a low key, no-one needs to back down or apologise meeting which would break the no communication stalemate?

Good luck OP.

@Schoolchoicesucks my sister and I are ok but don’t speak much. No hatred there though at all. But she definitely wouldn’t get involved.

i really just want it sorted out. I know no contact works for people but it doesn’t for me. This is far worse. I need to break the silence I just don’t know how. I am worried whatever I do will trigger me massively and she will certainly think she’s won as that’s what she is like.

I did wonder about just asking if she wants to meet for lunch but it’s insincere. Maybe I should just call? I wouldn’t know what to say.

Your Mum can't change the past. No matter how many times she apologises. Inspire of the poor childhood you had when pregnant you want your Mum. Go to see her and tell her you are sorry for speaking to her like that. Blame pregnancy hormones. She may have been a poor Mum but you say she has changed. Ask her to be a good Nana to your baby. This could be a healing process for you, watching her be affectionate with your baby. I know you can't forget your past but try to draw a line under it and don't take it with you into your own parenthood. Let it go as the past and a lesson of how not to treat a child. I am not minimising your pain but suggesting a pragmatic solution for your baby sake.

I think they weren't very good parents when you were young and may not be very good grandparents. I would consider having a long term break from them.

@caringcarer how though? What do I say? Where do I start?

Do you think they will be happy about pregnancy or negative?

Could you just text a ‘hello’.

I have a very similar relationship with my mother. I also wanted her when pregnant but sadly she will never be who I want or need her to be. When she started to treat my dc in the same way that she treated me I realised that I couldn’t continue to try to have the relationship that I wanted, I had to protect my dc.

Please be kind to yourself.

(and congratulations on your pregnancy)

Could you email or write a note to say that you are pregnant and are hoping to improve your relationship with her? That simple?

Take her a bunch of flowers and tell her you have great news to share. Tell her you are pregnant and she will be a Nana. If you make this gesture I am sure she will reach out and hug you. Tell her you need her support in pregnancy. Give her a chance to prove herself that she has changed and can be a supportive Mum. If you don't you will be the one hurting and the longer you leave it the harder it will be to apologise. My DH had a neglectful childhood where both his parents favoured his 2 brothers. He was treated very much less than his siblings. When I met him he was full of resentment still. He did not want to invite them to our wedding. I pointed out to him if we had children he would be taking away Grandparents from our baby. He came around and introduced me to them. Over time his Mum told me now she looks back she knows she was wrong and has apologised to DH. She said he was always self sufficient and very good academically. She thought his siblings needed more affection as they struggled with school and one has SN's. Over time we have built a relationship. DH has let most of his pain go now. There is still some pain there but he is far happier now with his parents in his life than when he refused to speak to them. A baby is a new life and could be a new beginning for you all. Deep down you need your Mum's love, reach out and grab it. Don't let the past hold you back. X

Thanks for the suggestions.

i think if I had spoken to her that day then it would have been ok, we’d have continued the argument then resolved it.

I think I should probably pull my big girl pants up and call and maybe just be honest and say we’re you never going to get in touch? And just speak open. It’s draining my though and I actually can’t believe my dad cut me off too when it had nothing to do with him. Maybe I just admit defeat, I can’t change the past and if she wants to celebrate her little win here then so be it.

honestly, just text and say hi mum. Try not to frame it in terms of winning. What does anyone truly win by being stubborn as hell?

you want some contact with your mum and you have a chance to achieve that now which you may not for a whole lot longer (depending on her age/health)

Are you sure that you want them involved in your child’s life? Are you completely confident that they won’t damage your child in the same way that they have damaged you?

@Whattpdo1
You can start by jettisoning the idea that if you make the first move it means that you were in the wrong. You are making the first move because you want a better relationship and to share your pregnancy. Phone your mum, tell her exactly what you have said in your reply to me: That you are struggling to move forward, but that you want to have her in your life. Arrange to meet in a neutral place like a park, tell her in a factual way of things from your mutual past that still bother you now. Explain that you think the two of you keep taking the same opposing stances which lead to repetitions of the same behaviours but now you want to try a different approach. Tell her you want her to recognise and understand your pov even if she doesn’t agree with them. Say that you can’t help feeling the way you do now but hope that being open about these things is a step in actually being able to move forward. Apologise for your short temper with her and say you will work on that as it seems you revert to a younger you in her company, but you hope she too, will work on trying to understand your pain. Unless you are the kind of person who can cut off a close family member without a second glance (I don’t think you are OP) you have to attempt a reconciliation. It will take time to mend this relationship but it’s doable if there is the will on both sides. If it fails however, you will know that you have tried and it will free you of any guilt. Good luck!

I don’t think you need to apologise for saying “fuck off” it was in the heat of an argument. I think she did right thing by going quiet too, to give you time and space.

I wouldn’t say “were you never going to get in touch” as an opening statement as that is a passive aggressive looking for a new argument baiting.

Id simply call and not mention the argument. Say you’re calling because you have news…you’re pregnant she going to be a grandmother. Then go from there.

I am taking your word here that she is a changed person, because there are a number of ways an emotional abuser can respond to this news in ways to make you feel like a worthless horrible excuse of a daughter/person. If you end the call feeling this way, she is still abusing you and your relationship is toxic. You would be better off going low contact with her if that is the case (for your own health and sanity).

If you end the call feeling better about yourself and her then that would be great. I just worry for you as you are obviously anxious about contacting her which shouldn’t be the case if she’s actually stopped being abusive/playing mind games on you.

You are making a lot of assumptions. She doesn’t care if you are alive or dead? Very doubtful indeed. She thinks she’s won? Again, doubtful, more likely feeling sad about a situation she can’t resolve.

You say she triggers you and you lose it and you also say this will continue to happen going forward which sounds so draining for all of you. You really need to look at these behaviours and unpick them. It’s so unhealthy to keep repeating the same patterns.

in the meantime how about a message saying you have some nice news and are pregnant and would like to see them but are trying to figure out some ways to improve your relationship to avoid these big dramas happening in the future. Perhaps meet in a neutral place for a defined period of time and actually listen to one another?

Maybe this is never going to be the easiest relationship and fairly low contact is the way forward. Nobody here can say but your attachment pattern sounds complicated and now is a good time to explore that.