"D"H incredibly sexist - and I didn't know it

[autocollantes]

This is really long. I'm sorry. If I cut bits out then, I'll end up adding them (drip feeding) later, so it's all here. Or all the pertinent parts. Wish I could make it shorter!

DH (H from now on) told me yesterday that of course I wouldn't have a career married to someone with his job, in a tone that indicated I was incredibly stupid for ever having thought it possible. I never knew that he thought that when I signed the marriage certificate, I was giving away my future to him and his career goals. And actually, partners of people with his job do have careers, they just have to manoeuvre a bit around their partner's job, but it is definitely possible.

In relation to me not having a career he also came out with the gem, "But you wanted kids!" After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I said "You're a father". He just shrugged.

Said that his view of marriage came from his parents (fair enough). He's said this before. His father was a banker and mother a teacher, so I was always a bit confused by how this was relevant (she had a career) and he never went further with explanation. Yesterday he added that of course I would do all the child-rearing and related tasks, because that's what his mother did. He would "help out" when he had time.

Not knowing any of this, I having been working really hard to try and forge a path. Including learning a foreign language. I have been doing an Open University degree for 7 years (I'm in my second year off due to burnout from home life - ie him). I initially wanted to go to a local uni (we're abroad), but he refused to allow childcare in the extra hours outside creche time that I'd (we'd) need. We could have afforded it, but he said we couldn't and that was that. So, undeterred, I went with the OU because I'd heard it was good and unlike the local uni, I could study part time. This meant that rather than a 3 year degree and a 1 year masters, (which is required here for basic qualification), I've had to study 6 years part-time, which has extended because of these burnouts (literally unable to walk from the stress he has brought - and unlike work burnout, I can't take time off from the stressor, because it's at home). Had he allowed extra childcare in the beginning, I'd have been qualified and working by now. He views me as less than him because I don't bring in an income. But I thought that 'lesser than' was only about the money. I hadn't realised my sex was a problem.

After I heard all this, my legs turned to jelly. I tried to eat to get some energy. I think I was in shock. I then got so cold (it's been warm here) and ended up fully clothed under two blankets to keep warm and then slept a bit. Today I'm really unable to focus. I couldn't make it home before crying on the morning school run.

I am already in the process of divorcing him. I wanted this to happen years ago, but he's basically refused to move out and due to a number of legal issues related to being a foreigner, there's been nothing I can do. The reason for not leaving was - and he told me this - that he needed me for childcare. That translates to 'free' childcare. So, I guess nobody needs to tell me to leave him, because I am already trying!

But I can't get my head around it. I actually believed that he was truly not sexist at all. I have posted on threads before about how my H wasn't sexist and I had some examples! Now I look back though, I see those examples weren't about sexism at all, they were about something else going on at the time of the specific event, which masked his actual feelings about the women involved.

I feel like I'm a character in a movie, but I've been put in the wrong one and I need to jump out of the screen. I feel quite sick that when I signed the marriage certificate and believed I was starting a life with this wonderful, fair, honest man, a life in which we would be looking out for each other, helping each other etc. He, meanwhile, was seeing our future together as me giving everything up to support his career and dreams. I can't even understand how you can marry someone and expect that of them (obviously being sexist is the answer, but still, extinguishing someone's hopes and dreams is more like hatred - it's on such a deep level).

Suddenly my wedding day has gone from a fond memory, to an nightmare in which I signed my dreams, all the while smiling and looking forward to the future. I just feel sick.

There are only a few people who know what has happened. Everybody else thinks he's the most wonderful guy for putting up with me studying part-time and taking so long to bring in a second income, and that he's so nice to stay with me and support me when I'm ill, after I've said I want a divorce. Oh, and he's a saint for dealing with me in general. He's seen as super-dad and a great all-round guy. I'm seen as being very lucky to have him in my life.

Sorry this is really long. If anybody has some words of wisdom for me, I'd be very grateful to hear. I just can't get my head around doing this to someone's life. As a comparison, I've been raped. Early on in our relationship, I told him because it could impact some things with our intimacy (don't want to be tied up, for example). I thought that if he didn't want to be with me because of that, that was his right. I didn't pretend, or semi-lie, or outright lie to him. I was upfront. Had he done the same, I categorically would not have had a relationship with him, never mind married him.

I don't have any words of wisdom for you - definitely not the wise sort so hopefully someone else will come along soon to say something insightful.

But I couldn't leave your post unreplied to. I'd ask if you need help talking through logistics of divorce but you sound totally capable and on top of everything - which isn't surprising when you read everything you've been through and everything you d achieved already with this ball and chain round your ankle dragging you down. Just think everything you're going to achieve and how you're going to inspire your DC in the next phase of your life.

I'm so sorry this has happened though. Blankets, hot drinks and chocolate / whatever you can face to just give you some energy while you process this.

He's awful and you deserve better but you know this and you'll get better.

I have no words of wisdom other than to say I’m so sorry you found this out.

You write so eloquently that I have no doubt at all you are going to go on to achieve your qualifications and forge a fantastic career. As @OhThatChicken said, your children will see that you are inspirational

Thank you both so much for reading all of that! I definitely don't feel inspirational. I feel - well, I don't have a word for 'beyond stupid'. I feel like I am nothing, just a shell of a human. I'm not sure why I'm even alive, and were it not for my kids, I wouldn't be now. I know what it would do to them forever were i not here, so there's no risk of me taking that option. My only option is to keep going.

I woke up crying in the night. I can't get the question "How could you do that to someone" out of my head. I don't understand, because he seems so nice. My mind flatlines when i try to understand.

I've actually been really struggling getting the paperwork together for the lawyer. I was having panic attacks when I attempted doing the accounts due to what happened in the past related to me being allowed to spend money (or not). I'm giving it a go this morning again. We'll see how long I last. I haven't told the lawyer this, she just thinks I'm very slow. It's so embarrassing and it's actually humiliating to have to tell people. I'd rather she thinks I'm just unresponsive and slow rather than let her in to what has happened to me (it makes no difference in the divorce process either, so in the end would just cost me a lot of money to tell her!).

I might just keep posting on this thread.

I think you should tell the lawyer OP. He/she needs to understand the context and also it will help her to identify anything that might make the process easier for you.

Also seek out counselling. The “why” question you are asking is unanswerable and tormenting at the same time. I think counselling would help by giving you some coping mechanisms to deal with something that makes no sense at all.

Good luck for your degree.

💐

Please do tell the lawyer why you’re struggling. She’ll have seen men like this before, and she may well be able to make her processes easier for you to follow in the light of that.

My exH also turned out to be a nasty sexist shitbag. I was "allowed" a career, but we had agreed he would focus on his while the DC were little, and then shift to focus on mine after they started school. When the time came for ex to step up with the housework and childcare a bit more, he wouldn't. He thought I should still do all of it, what with me not having a penis and all. Tip of the iceberg actually.

@autocollantes please tell your solicitor why it's taking you so long. You are paying them to help you, they need all the info so they can do their best job. Once I'd told mine a bit more, we got ex's household contributions agreed in writing, so when he tried to screw me over with the bills, he couldn't.

Also, you are NOT stupid. You couldn't have predicted his behaviour, or his mindset. How could you possibly concieve of something you haven't seen happen, and would never dream of doing to someone else? You went into this in good faith, prepared to love your H and do your best throughout. Of course you would expect the same from him. That's a fault with him, not you.

I know you will ask yourself why you didn’t notice this, but I think the thing you need to concentrate on is your actions when you did notice it. You haven’t just allowed yourself to be steamrollered by him, you have said no, that this is not the life you will except for yourself. That is to your credit, and while things might feel very difficult now, you’re evidently a strong woman who will get through it, and you won’t repeat mistakes you’ve made in the past.

please be kind to yourself. It is not your fault that this marriage has gone wrong. I’m pretty sure he will have tried to mask his deep seated sexism. There will be a good reason why you didn’t see it, and that good reason will probably be because he has tried to hide it until you were shackled by marriage. You will free yourself from the marriage though, because you’re a strong woman who refuses to except being somebody else’s property. Hold your head up OP, you are not the submissive little woman he took you for, you are strong and powerful and you are choosing to exercise that strength and power.

Structural sexism is as old as time, and the psychology of sexism that creates and continues to create it goes very deep. But we are born – I believe – with expectations of fairness and that we will somehow have the conditions to fulfil ourselves. These two things clash in ALL women, no matter what their circumstances or who they meet. Is he even conscious of what he is and how he views women as lesser? FULLY conscious, I mean?

You, far from being stupid, have woken up to your situation, analysed it and are dealing with it, despite the pain and difficulty this obviously entails. You write about it with manifest intelligence and insight; long, yes, but extremely readable and lucid. I’m so sorry that this is so debilitating for you – I’m not surprised though, life often undermines deeply intelligent competent women in this way.

Yes, please keep posting and you will find support and help and encouragement here. Do not for a moment think of this as your stupidity and your failure if you can at all help it. It’s the bloody human condition (yes I know NAMALT). You’re taking the reins of your life back. Bravo! 👏

It's important for your solicitor to know if he's financially abusive. It's not a reflection on you at all, but on him.

Well done for having already decided to leave.

I didn't expect any replies because of the length so I feel very lucky that you have all read so much. Thank you.

I've taken your advice onboard and emailed the lawyer. I couldn't call because I was crying too much. I didn't tell her what he's said recently, but I will when I give her the paperwork and see her face to face to discuss other things. I told her why it's taking so long though. She sent back a lovely email straight away telling me to take my time.

That's removed a lot of pressure.

I also told him last night that I've been to the lawyer and things are now moving slowly. He was in shock. Never, ever since we've been together have I had someone backing me that makes me stronger in his eyes. I have a sibling who lives very very far away and a mother who would support him over me any day of the week (and would/did my ex boyfriends too). Am now NC with her. He has a big, supportive family and legal people amongst both family and friends. Everything is biased towards him in our lives, so it took him a little time to get his head around me having a lawyer who wasn't centring him.

I feel that contacting the lawyer and then telling him I've seen a lawyer reduced some of the powerlessness that I've been feeling. I feel a bit better. I don't feel so hollowed out this morning.

Is he even conscious of what he is and how he views women as lesser?

Oh most definitely not. And part of what is difficult to get my head around is that he comes across as scrupulously fair. This has come back in all his HR psychometric tests (he's done quite a few over the years) and work reviews - so I know that part of him is a) visible to others and b) actually exists. So there's no way he believes he views us as lesser. However, he clearly has different expectations of a "wife" and at no point when I was talking about future plans etc did he say anything along the lines of what he said the other day. Or not that blatantly, because I didn't pick up on it (and I would have - like I did now). So I don't know whether he realised consciously that "wife" and "mother" are lesser.

He actually has a special place for his mother and sister. I always thought you should look how a man treats his mother, to know how he'll treat you/views women. I've never measured up though. Now I understand it's because she had the then perfect job for a wife and mother: teacher (lower workload than now and in a country with much better working conditions back then). Easy for her to do all the wife and mother tasks and have a job (bring in money) that fitted around her husband's quite nicely - as in it did not require any input from the father unless he was there and felt like it.

Well done, you've taken up a bit of your power and he's shocked! You can do this.
The only way society as a whole is going to change is by individual women, like you and me, putting our feet down and saying no, not good enough.
Your lawyer sounds very supportive and understanding. A vital asset.
So glad you're feeling a bit better today.

OP, you sound so resilient and brave. I am cheering for you here. You will be able to find a new path to your fullfilment very soon. 😘

OP you sound like a hero to me.
I think you are particularly strong given the fact he, his family and much of the environment around you do not see that he is wrong and do not see that you have been wronged, do not see how hard things have been for you (and still are) and do not see how hard you have worked. They don't even seem to see that he's been a bit of an arsehole. That must be so annoying!
I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, there are some great posts on this thread. Just wanted to join the others to say I see your strength. My heart breaks for you. But it is not your fault. Structural sexism scaffolds, authorises and normalises your husband's behaviour and undermines people (women) who push against it. Few and far between are the women who haven't been compromised by it somehow. It is insidious and in some ways impossible to avoid. I find it hard not to get upset when I think about it too (in my case it's mostly in my career). But we are all chipping away in various areas and I'm also ensuring my children (a boy and a girl) do not grow up to be like your husband.
I'm so impressed with the route you have taken.

(By bit of an arsehole I really meant total arsehole. I was trying to be polite? He sounds like a man who wants a slave rather than a partner.)

Hope you're doing OK OP. You're amazing, sending strength xx

I'm so sorry OP. He's dismantled your confidence and self belief over many years. It's not surprising that you are struggling to get things actioned. It is part of his MO to reduce your independence, hence making it difficult for you to complete your education. The burn out is a classic response. He's traumatised you by belittling and undermining you.

Well done for getting as far as you have. Just keep persevering!

I'm so glad you recognise how sexist he is. Do you have a daughter? Because if you do it would be interesting to know what expectations he has for her if any.

I'm also wondering if you both discussed you having a career and children, before you married him?

I’m so sorry this has happened to you. You’re far from being alone - we are all here for you x

Just a quick anecdote OP, and I'm sorry, it's not really related to your post but I thought you might find it helpful.
I struggle against a lot of sexist headwinds in my career, which is wholly male (a very male corner of STEM). I have one (male) colleague I've worked with for a long time who is just completely different to all my other (male) colleagues. The difference is that he is genuinely not sexist. (It took me a while to realise this because, as other posts say, sexism can be invisible and I didn't initially see it in my other colleagues.) The simple fact that this colleague has always treated me with respect and like a normal person working in STEM (and even been cool with me being his boss, even though he's older than me) has always felt like the most miraculous support. It has made such a difference to me. I'm actually welling up typing this. Anyway, point is: he was raised by a single mum. I'm sure that is the main reason. She was obviously pretty awesome! He's been extremely successful in his career due to his capability and fairness, as well.

Thanks. I've been thinking about posting again in this thread but been away with the kids and not had time. I went to the U.K. alone with them and had the best holiday of my life. Put on about a stone a day too eating all the things I normally can't get - plus enjoying being able to eat all the crap I want with no comment or sigh or glance. 😁

I felt so free away from him it really was wonderful. Miraculously (sarcasm) I also didn't get exhausted one single time. At home it's multiple times a week.

But coming back (been home less than an hour) is just horrible. I just want to hide away. I was full of plans of fun things as well as getting on with the accounts, but now I just want to disappear. Sorry, sounds like a pity party over here.

However, the advice earlier to let the lawyer know was valuable. I have thought a lot about her response over the past week and it has really meant a lot. It's taken so much stress off to know she knows and is supportive. So thanks to the PPs who suggested that.

I know what you mean about the exhaustion- that's one of the worst bits of it all.

You sound like you're doing so well.
This is really extreme and probably not recommended, but would you consider having a holiday in the uk in the summer with the children and just staying? Or is that not practical?

I'm also wondering if you both discussed you having a career and children, before you married him?

Yes and no. My contract had ended and I took on freelance work after we met. I was constantly looking for things to do to take my career in a more focussed direction. There was no secret about this. I'm a naturally open person so with him was even more so. And it didn't occur to me to hide anything. So we didn't sit down and say "Auto wants to have a career and MrAuto doesn't want that/it doesn't work with MrAuto's career plans or family ideas". It was more an absolutely constant and ongoing discussion with me struggling to find a fit.

The career (vocation) that I came to was something I'd always wanted to do when younger but was told not Toby my mother (another fun story there..). It requires uni training and then post-grad study and training. This was one year after being married and I fully discussed with him and he participated in the discussion. I was willing to study in different places to work around his job moving him, but at no point did he say, "I don't want you do." or "This isn't the marriage I wanted." It was all subtle ways of blocking me, making things difficult, ignoring me, belittling me (then saying "I knew you'd pass that exam." when I did after being stressed). It never once crossed my mind that he didn't want me to have a career/do a job I wanted to do. I think I was completely blind to it all and failed to join the dots because a) I loved and respected him and b) assumed that the fact he'd chosen (he wasn't forced to!) to marry me meant he felt the same.

I still can't get my head around the fact that I didn't realise for all these years that he had a completely different role in mind for me than life partner. I feel so stupid for having been played by him for so long. I made it so easy for him too.

Do you have a daughter? Because if you do it would be interesting to know what expectations he has for her if any.

He would be RAGING if anybody treated his daughter like he's treated me. He's very protective about his sister (DSIL) too (who has her own business in an allied health care role in their country) and wouldn't know what to do with himself if this happened to her.

And I've pointed that out to him. He says nothing.

As for what he wants for our DD? Full expectation that she'll become some kind of professional. Same for DS.

BUT he treats them unequally and DD8 has picked up in it. She screams at him about it and while I don't like shouting and screaming, I let her vent at him because it's justified. She doesn't do that to anybody else. So for example, he'll take them to the beach to do a water sport. But DD doesn't like it and gets cold, so she just hangs around bored while DS does it. And he keeps taking them there (weather permitting) because DS likes it.

However, he's much stricter with DS than her when it comes to behaviour and has been since they were toddlers. It breaks my heart for my DS.

Honestly I'm embarrassed that this is my life. I've gone from speaking to H about it, explaining things to him, giving him ideas of alternatives, recommending books and YouTube videos and websites (in his language too) to passively protect the kids, while actively stepping in to try and smooth things down, to realising I just can't, so I have to support them in standing up for themselves to him. I find it horrible. And it's been very hard to make that switch because it involved realising that I couldn't properly protect them.

I'm working really hard to be myself with them - open and understanding - and a soft place to fall to try and reduce the impact of his actions. That's also harder when I'm exhausted.

And all that I was doing without even fully realising this deep-seated sexism! I was constantly responding to individual incidents, never joining them all up. I always had something to excuse his behaviour with, so there was nothing really to join.

I still can't get my head around it all. I can't believe this is my life. I can't believe that I ended up in this position, because it has no relation to who I am or was! How on Earth I missed the fucking big I Think You're Worth Less Than Me signs is shocking! I mean, he's basically even said those words! (His job is more important than my studies/future work because he's paid more).

You sound like you're doing so well.
This is really extreme and probably not recommended, but would you consider having a holiday in the uk in the summer with the children and just staying? Or is that not practical?

That's not possible. I could get done for kidnapping the children and lose custody of them permanently.

On a practical level I have nowhere to live in the U.K. and no way currently of financing anywhere. Staying out is my only option.

But a holiday would be nice!