"D"H incredibly sexist - and I didn't know it

[autocollantes]

This is really long. I'm sorry. If I cut bits out then, I'll end up adding them (drip feeding) later, so it's all here. Or all the pertinent parts. Wish I could make it shorter!

DH (H from now on) told me yesterday that of course I wouldn't have a career married to someone with his job, in a tone that indicated I was incredibly stupid for ever having thought it possible. I never knew that he thought that when I signed the marriage certificate, I was giving away my future to him and his career goals. And actually, partners of people with his job do have careers, they just have to manoeuvre a bit around their partner's job, but it is definitely possible.

In relation to me not having a career he also came out with the gem, "But you wanted kids!" After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I said "You're a father". He just shrugged.

Said that his view of marriage came from his parents (fair enough). He's said this before. His father was a banker and mother a teacher, so I was always a bit confused by how this was relevant (she had a career) and he never went further with explanation. Yesterday he added that of course I would do all the child-rearing and related tasks, because that's what his mother did. He would "help out" when he had time.

Not knowing any of this, I having been working really hard to try and forge a path. Including learning a foreign language. I have been doing an Open University degree for 7 years (I'm in my second year off due to burnout from home life - ie him). I initially wanted to go to a local uni (we're abroad), but he refused to allow childcare in the extra hours outside creche time that I'd (we'd) need. We could have afforded it, but he said we couldn't and that was that. So, undeterred, I went with the OU because I'd heard it was good and unlike the local uni, I could study part time. This meant that rather than a 3 year degree and a 1 year masters, (which is required here for basic qualification), I've had to study 6 years part-time, which has extended because of these burnouts (literally unable to walk from the stress he has brought - and unlike work burnout, I can't take time off from the stressor, because it's at home). Had he allowed extra childcare in the beginning, I'd have been qualified and working by now. He views me as less than him because I don't bring in an income. But I thought that 'lesser than' was only about the money. I hadn't realised my sex was a problem.

After I heard all this, my legs turned to jelly. I tried to eat to get some energy. I think I was in shock. I then got so cold (it's been warm here) and ended up fully clothed under two blankets to keep warm and then slept a bit. Today I'm really unable to focus. I couldn't make it home before crying on the morning school run.

I am already in the process of divorcing him. I wanted this to happen years ago, but he's basically refused to move out and due to a number of legal issues related to being a foreigner, there's been nothing I can do. The reason for not leaving was - and he told me this - that he needed me for childcare. That translates to 'free' childcare. So, I guess nobody needs to tell me to leave him, because I am already trying!

But I can't get my head around it. I actually believed that he was truly not sexist at all. I have posted on threads before about how my H wasn't sexist and I had some examples! Now I look back though, I see those examples weren't about sexism at all, they were about something else going on at the time of the specific event, which masked his actual feelings about the women involved.

I feel like I'm a character in a movie, but I've been put in the wrong one and I need to jump out of the screen. I feel quite sick that when I signed the marriage certificate and believed I was starting a life with this wonderful, fair, honest man, a life in which we would be looking out for each other, helping each other etc. He, meanwhile, was seeing our future together as me giving everything up to support his career and dreams. I can't even understand how you can marry someone and expect that of them (obviously being sexist is the answer, but still, extinguishing someone's hopes and dreams is more like hatred - it's on such a deep level).

Suddenly my wedding day has gone from a fond memory, to an nightmare in which I signed my dreams, all the while smiling and looking forward to the future. I just feel sick.

There are only a few people who know what has happened. Everybody else thinks he's the most wonderful guy for putting up with me studying part-time and taking so long to bring in a second income, and that he's so nice to stay with me and support me when I'm ill, after I've said I want a divorce. Oh, and he's a saint for dealing with me in general. He's seen as super-dad and a great all-round guy. I'm seen as being very lucky to have him in my life.

Sorry this is really long. If anybody has some words of wisdom for me, I'd be very grateful to hear. I just can't get my head around doing this to someone's life. As a comparison, I've been raped. Early on in our relationship, I told him because it could impact some things with our intimacy (don't want to be tied up, for example). I thought that if he didn't want to be with me because of that, that was his right. I didn't pretend, or semi-lie, or outright lie to him. I was upfront. Had he done the same, I categorically would not have had a relationship with him, never mind married him.

Towards the end of my marriage and after our divorce, my ex went all mens rights activist/women have gone too far on me and I think I went into shock too. It is a horrible feeling to see that you have been so wrong about someone for so long.

I am a lecturer in a STEM department of a university. I had a doctor appointment recently with a doctor I'd never met before. 33 years old, so I was shocked at his attitude. He asked me what I did for work and I simply said I worked in this particular university department. He asked me if I was a secretary. There is nothing wrong with being a secretary, but the assumption that STEM = blokes shocked me coming from a 33 year old.

I wish there was something, anything I could say that would right this for you.

I'm just replying because I wanted you to know that I too have read everything you've posted and I really feel for you.

The pattern you describe is closer to coercive control borne of misogynistic beliefs than simple sexism. (People don't engage in coercive control because they're "monsters", it comes from their beliefs about what is right and acceptable - he believes it's right and acceptable to subjugate you.) It happened gradually, subtly at first, that's why it was hard to see. Like you say, he didn't start by outright forbidding you from doing things - he made it too difficult instead. That's how it happens. It's not your fault.

You're articulate and insightful - calling yourself "beyond stupid" is as unjust as how he has treated you. That you've kept going through all of this, gotten as far as you have, kept going - achieved as much as you have with your degree and trying to build despite his sabotage - shows that you are determined and capable and will be able to thrive in your life beyond him.

It might take a while yet, but you are moving in the right direction and you will get there even if it is one little step and a rest at a time.

Oh god, I'm sorry. Yes this sort of thing happens to me too. A lot of people (men) seem to behave normally on the surface, but underneath there are all these weird attitudes and misconceptions.

I have been through similar to this scenario apart from the kids dad wanted me to be the main breadwinner but also not have a career! He undermined me at every opportunity suddenly being “unable” to look after our son before a job and “forgetting” to pick the kids up. He is also took no responsibility for anything for the kids or around the house. It’s just shit, I’m sorry he has done this to you.

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Would it help to realise that he isn't actually sexist, you didn't miss anything? You aren't beyond stupid for not spotting it?

His weird opinions aren't to do with sexism. He's just chosen you as his support person, so you don't get any rights of your own. 'Behind every great man...' etc. It's all about his ego.

He actually thinks he's a hero because he's allowed his support person to do extra curricular things that don't revolve around him and his offspring- as long as they don't interfere with her true purpose, focussing on family life.

So you didn't miss his innate sexism, it's just that he chose a 'helpmeet' not an equal partner. It's a bit like StJohn Rivers in Jane Eyre. His extraordinary esteem for Jane blinded her to the reality that he'd destroy her in pursuit of his own dreams.

It is so odd when you first encounter real sexism and can't find any other explanation for it. The first time a really nice, competent guy who was completely equal to me - same age, same sort of aspirations, kind to animals, honest etc - turned to me and told me stuff that was just straight wrong about an idea of mine because I was female - it was like an out of body experience. He hadn't expected the female team to come up with something better than his team's idea. He had to reorder his world so that our idea wasn't better any more. For that to come from your husband is truly terrifying. I agree with counselling - you have no place of safety at the moment and that's very very difficult.

I certainly wouldnt cast yourself as stupid, because until now you have not had to face it head on - he has been unhelpful regarding childcare, and I guess you just thought him an inconsiderate arse, but he hadnt actually expressed his real beliefs, because he hadnt needed to, as you were not in a position to actually DO the career. Im assuming he knew, but simply stuck his head in the sand and hoped to put off his declaration to a later point - a point as which Im assuming he hoped you would realise the folly of your dreams, and forget about it all.

Im also not surprised. Despite lip service to equality and fairness, it simply is reinforced and runs deep, that men are more important and mens jobs are more important, and women are there to facilitate mens careers.

It runs deep. Its portrayed in the media, in the press, in families. Its been that way for thousands of years and although things have been changing, I suspect that its only the recent NEED for both partners to work that has made many men accept that a womans job might be as important. But across the board we see reports and surveys that show that men are very rarely pulling their equal weight on the household stuff, even more so if that stuff includes childcare or mental load stuff.

And it seems to be tied in with horribly fragile male ego, and mixed up with feelings around perceived masculinity. It raises its head when men have trouble with female bosses - to be told what to do by a woman is really upsetting - even though logically they can see that women are often working harder / much better than their male counterparts. Its because it runs so very deep and is part of every message that man received from being a baby upwards.

of course that doesnt mean that you need to accept it - far from it. Understanding where beliefs come from can make it easier to understand, but dont make those views acceptable. I think thats why an awful lot of women just simply prefer to be doing it alone, than having to suffer the stress of living with someone who sabotages you, or wants you as their serf. Dont forget that marriage was created, not as a declaration of love, but to provide a man with a wife - someone who would be housekeeper, ego booster, brood mare and child raiser, cook and sex on demand. Dress it up how you like - for thousands of years, that is exactly the role of a woman. All the benefits were for the man - the woman, for her part, gets 'looked after'. So its easy to see why many men might resent the rewriting of the contract, because in their eyes they are now losing out so that someone else benefits, and many men dont see any benefits in that.

You cannot change the past

However, you could have studied FT, had a career, then had children, then continued to work ?

You have both made choices

What do you want to happen in your future ?

i career changed with a lengthy training (be a string of postgrad degrees by the end!) post kids, with husband in finance. My husband is 100% not sexist. I’ve seen many women in his male dominated work reach for his support because of his enormous decency, so I am very lucky there. Of DH parents, his mum was the main career one, so I agree on role models. Nonetheless the study and kids combo is a big trust thing, quite arguably on both sides. I studied full time and intensively, but I had greater flexibility than in my previous career, and definitely this allowed my DH’s career to grow. Of course my husband needed to carry the whole financial can in that period - so you could say I took a regressive role for a while. Now I’m back working in the new career (still with some part time study) there are some adjustments and recalibrations for both of us. Covid homeworking has helped him to take over some of the load - but a challenge remains that he’s got a senior job (he earns most the money, related to my choices) in the mould of expectations that he works extremely hard. We’re getting there though and I am moving beyond that transition point to become established in my new path.

I say this because single or not, be aware that the vulnerable career transition point lies ahead, where you will need to get through a lowered income and status stage. Even though you are splitting, what about couples counselling to work out what has happened and how to move on as separated people? Or counselling alone to work on those goals? your husband sounds cognitively very rigid but he at least has maintained a close relationship with his family. The more harmonious an understanding you can get now, the better the split and the better your chances to establish the identity you want

After I heard all this, my legs turned to jelly. I tried to eat to get some energy. I think I was in shock. I then got so cold (it's been warm here) and ended up fully clothed under two blankets to keep warm and then slept a bit. Today I'm really unable to focus. I couldn't make it home before crying on the morning school run.

All this just because your husband believes in what's basically known as traditional gender roles? Get a grip.

As you say, you're already doing the right thing by divorcing him- please keep going with that. He's even contributed to your ill health. Xx

People can say the right thing on a test- doesn't mean it's real of course.

I'm sorry to hear about those if you who deal with this crap professionally.

I'm here and reading. I'm not replying much right now because it's quite tough right now.

But All this just because your husband believes in what's basically known as traditional gender roles? Get a grip.

Thanks for your input. Your disapproval of my experience of my life has been duly noted.
If you wouldn't find any of it a shock to discover given the circumstances, I envy you. As it is, I've heard you and you've upset me (which I guess was the point - let's not pretend you were posting "get a grip" to be supportive, not even in a tough love sort of way). Now you've said it and been heard, please go elsewhere, because I'm sure this thread will not be the place you find happiness online.

I really need this thread to be supportive. I don't expect everybody to understand or be supportive - hell I have lived with someone for 17 years who isn't! But I'm really struggling, so it would be very nice if you think I'm stupid in any way if you would just click on another thread. In a microsecond I'm sure you can find someone less stupid than me. 😊

I say this because single or not, be aware that the vulnerable career transition point lies ahead, where you will need to get through a lowered income and status stage. Even though you are splitting, what about couples counselling to work out what has happened and how to move on as separated people? Or counselling alone to work on those goals? your husband sounds cognitively very rigid but he at least has maintained a close relationship with his family. The more harmonious an understanding you can get now, the better the split and the better your chances to establish the identity you want

We've been in couples therapy and then mediation. Neither worked because he said what he thought was best at the time to give him the easiest path. He doesn't engage properly because he doesn't/didn't see it as relevant: if there's a problem, it's my fault. And I've just realised that the first part of that is basically what he's been doing the entire relationship too.

However, you could have studied FT, had a career, then had children, then continued to work ?
I'm afraid I can only laugh at this. I'm glad your life has gone according to plan!

This started when you allowed him to make the decisions about childcare. When my husband suggested we not hire a nanny so I could maintain my career I laughed it off as the silliest thing I'd ever heard. Then the next day issued an ad for a nanny. I had to do all the leg work (hiring, paying, managing) but I got it done because it was important to me. You gave him too much power at the start.

They (men) basically see children as your role. All of them. So you have to behave in ways that make you equally valuable. Either he, or someone paid, shares the role.

This is very interesting, thanks. I think it is all very true. He is also sexist though.

Had a nice "I'm your father and I'm checking what you're wearing" said authoritatively to DD today..she's 8. She was wearing a pair of shorts that come just above mid thigh (well over her bum and down her legs) and he pulled them down about an inch lower. I stepped in. Her little face was so upset and confused. He's not done that before.

Is your husband British and grown up in Britain? Not that this should make a difference, but sometimes cultural differences can make it harder to understand other people's opinions on issues.
Obviously this is not relevant to your personal situation because you are unhappy in your marriage, but just for context.

I totally agree with this and what the op has said about how shocking this sexism can be coming from someone who is supposed to value you. He sounds like an utter shit bag. I'm so glad you are on your way to getting rid of him.

OP you are smart and sassy and I love that. Keep being you. You deserve better than this, so keep going through this hell because you will come out the other side. 🌻🍹

Don't ever go into a role that requires any empathy whatsoever... FFS!

OP he's clearly broken you down, which is why you're struggling to cope. I suspect he probably gaslights you too, so you doubt your own reality. If you got away from him you'd very quickly get back to your true self. Believe in yourself, it's him, not you. And get counselling with someone who works with people in abusive relationships. Because the effect he has on you is the same.

All this just because your husband believes in what's basically known as traditional gender roles? Get a grip.

Which are sexist!
I'd be upset if I was married to a sexist man too. In fact, I was once and I left but I didn't have the challenges that the op has.
Have a bit of empathy!

All this just because your husband believes in what's basically known as traditional gender roles? Get a grip.

Just to note this poster has been giving their interesting take on women's rights all over the Feminism section so it's safe to say they're not exactly posting to be supportive...