LTB?

[SkyK]

Hi,
Posting for some advice as I genuinely don’t know if this is a situation where I should be leaving or working on my relationship.
I’m married, two young kids and we’ve been together for 12 years.
My husband is usually lovely, kind, caring, hard working and a great dad. He has always however had issues with alcohol. It turns him into a different person and he can be often very aggressive and argumentative for no reason. He has never been physically violent but has occasionally done things such as smashing things on floor or pushed me out the way and swearing at me etc.
He is always very apologetic the next day and usually doesn’t remember. Whilst at the time of the event I am always adamant I am leaving him, the next day because he’s back to normal, I have always ended up forgiving him and taking him back. I have threatened to leave multiple times. Sometimes I recognise that I’ve contributed to arguments as when he’s aggressive to me, I stand my ground or tell him he’s being a twat which then results in things escalating. I’ve learnt mostly to bite my tongue, keep out of his way when he’s drunk and let it pass.

After several ultimatums, he now recognises his problem with alcohol and has cut back massively on drinking and so things have been good for a while without any arguments. Until last night. We were at a family event, he got wasted (after promising me he wouldn’t). I knew he was drunk
So I kept out of his way until the end of the evening when we I needed to get kids home. This is when it all kicked off again, he flew off the handle at me in front of kids and several of his family members, swearing, ranting, calling me all kinds of names, telling me to F off etc etc.My children were upset and crying because of it. I was hugely embarrassed and tried to diffuse situation to just get home and calm things down for my kids. Which I managed to do.
His family were horrified by his behaviour and told him how out of order he was but I just tried to brush it under the carpet, explained he was just wasted and we needed to go.
Cut to today, he’s apologies, said the usual he won’t drink anymore. Said his family have told him how horrible he was.
I just don’t know what to do. I do love him and care about him terribly and I can see how conflicted he is and how awful he feels because he really is not at all like this when he’s sober. That said, I feel like perhaps I’ve just got so used to it that I’ve become desensitised to being treated like this and things are never going to change?

I am fortunately financially ok, the higher earner and not dependent on him in that respect so I could afford to leave albeit it would be difficult and I worry it would upset the kids so much to break the family up. It’s also just doesn’t feel right as when he’s sober our relationship is generally pretty good.
Is this worth fighting for or do you think this relationship sounds like a lost cause??

If he really wanted to change , he would have sought help by now.

How much is too much for you and for the DC?

He's not changed despite repeated ultimatums. He's not going to change unless you actually act on them.

That would been the last straw for me op.
Enough is enough. And he can't make out he doesn't deserve it to his family if you leave now.

I'd actually wonder if he drinks specifically so that he could act that way and blame it on the booze tbh.

Either way, you reallyvhave to show the kids that they must never stay with anyone who treats them that way. No excuses.

Otherwise they may grow up excusing all sorts of abuse from a partner. Because their mother did, and stayed.

What kind of help would there be for this? Anger management? I don’t think he’s an alcoholic as such, he can go several weeks without drinking.
I’m trying to work out is it better for the kids to stay, in what for the most part is a loving, stable household. Or leave, and potentially leave them living with him 50% of the time without me there! I worry if I leave, he would be very depressed and would turn to alcohol even more and be an even worse influence on the childrens life. At least whilst he’s here, I can make sure the kids are shielded from him if he does get drunk (last night being an exception, they’ve not seen him like that before).

Also, if you do decide you want to sell, keep pretending to him that you dont. He wants to hurt you, so it'll be more likely he will sell if he thinks you do not want to.

Though be prepared for him to change his mind at the last minute. Because HE actually doesn't want to sell BTW. Because if he stops living with you thrn he loses half his power. He just wants you to think he wants to sell Because its part of his 'you're breaking up the family' bullshit.

And when you think about it...it just is horrible of him. No decent person mindfucks and manipulates people like that. They don't want to cause people more pain. They want to resolve situations to a point where both people are happy. Not blackmail you into staying. Not break you.

So now you know, he is not a good man.

I realise I might sound like I’m a complete doormat. I’m not, I am fully prepared to leave I just want what’s best for the kids. My parents were divorced and I just really didn’t want that for my children.

A happy home is what's best for your children. You can't give them that by staying with this man.

Not can you give them a happy future. Because they will grow up thinking its normal for partners to abuse them.

Divorce sucks. But it's really nothing in comparison to staying in a home, witnessing your mother being controlled, belittled and abused.

And don't think they won't know.
They'll know.

I'm time he will even play you off against eachother.

Any behaviour around alcohol that damages either themselves , work , social life or loved ones is alcoholic drinking.
People who are in control with alcohol do not do things that repeatedly hurt loved ones . They either take steps to change their actions if they are in control .
If every time you went out driving you crashed the car you would either go on a training course or stop driving the car .
Your husband sounds similar to my ex . It was a long and damaging road to the end . It should have been stopped sooner . He still has the episodes occasionally but at least it’s not in our day to day life and the children can choose their level of interaction with him now . And often that’s just saying ‘I don’t want to speak to you when you’re like this ‘ and hang up .
The control is with us , we are not at mercy of his moods . Far healthier , happier , calmer way to live .

How many times are you going to allow your children to see this horrendous abuse and unforgivable behaviour? How much damage to their lives will finally be enough that you'll actually leave him?

I would be kicking his sorry arse out of the house today and he would never be coming back.

Please, FGS, do the right thing for your kids.

Shit I just realised my last replies were me thinking you were another poster I've been replying to. Still relatively relevant though.

Thanks @Pinkbonbon, I was a little confused but yes can see that’s it’s probably likely to be relevant to me too if we do end up in that situation!

My ex was like this. It was absolutely awful and I used to dread him ever going out as I was never sure if he would drink or not. It was no way to live and although the separation has been hard (we have two young children) I am so happy that I never have to experience his awful behaviour again.

He is an alcoholic. Your children are being damaged. What help do you need to recognise this and protect them?

Thank you everyone whose commented, I really do appreciate the advice. A lot to think about.I don’t want to do anything rash. If I’m going to leave, I need to get things in order and I really want it to be as amicable a split as possible. I just don’t know if amicable splits exist!!

You said he isn't physically violent. Pushing you out the way IS physical violence.

Think about the effect this is having on your children, you are normalising a toxic abusive environment.

Why not a trial separation, that will be his time to pull himself together, if it doesn't improve then don't go back.

I would recommend keeping a diary of events.

After a month, read it back and decide if it sounds acceptable.

Staying together for the sake of the kids would be wrong and ultimately more damaging to you and the children.

A lot to think about. I don’t want to do anything rash.

Sorry, op, but it's very upsetting to read that. You may have a lot to do, but you shouldn't have anything to think about except keeping him away from your children. Even his family has seen how out of control he is. His drunkenness and violent behaviour is only going to get worse.

This is not for you to fix, OP. And it’s very clear he has an alcohol abuse problem - he may not drink every day and go for stretches of time without, but his behaviour when drinking is unacceptable and he refuses to stop drinking (he can’t cut back, he has to stop) and that is an alcohol abuse problem.

The other problem is, for yourself, that you have laid down all these ‘ultimatums’ yet not followed through on them, time and time again. You have only taught him that he can behave the way he wishes and there will be no consequences.

If you want to, lay down the last ultimatum - he goes to therapy and stops drinking, completely for good, or you’re gone. And follow through with that. Or you both will be in this intolerable and damaging cycle forever - as will your children.

Your ultimatums are pointless if you don't see it through.

Op, he won't change because he is not trying anything differently. Cutting down on alcohol hasn't worked and if drinking causes him issues then he is an alcoholic. That's the definition.

I think you have to take action this time. Ask him to leave, perhaps stay with family. He then has a choice - get help or allow his self pity to make him further decline. You can't save him and you are not responsible.

If he becomes a drunk around your children then they will stop going. It is so damaging to children to witness a parent out of control through alcohol. They will have been scared of him.

He has a choice - fix his issues, which is alcohol dependency and lack of control or remain how he is - being abusive and apologising afterwards.

Hi OP, I commented earlier about leaving my partner who used to do this. You said you are worried about whether it's possible to have an amicable split- well I think we have managed it as best as we can. It definitely hasn't been plain sailing and people often make comments like, wow you two are really doing such a great job of co parenting and I want to say yes, but that's mainly driven by me, I have to be the bloody adult all the time! However I think it's a case of picking your battles- I do let some things go (and have a bitch about it to my lovely friends afterwards) but hold my ground on the important stuff. We are largely very civil to one another (always friendly in front of the kids) and still do joint things together like the kids birthday parties, parents evening etc. So it can be done!

Thank you everyone. I think I really needed to hear this. I guess I’ve been burying my head in my hands and have normalised this behaviour because I so wanted our family unit to work. Your words have really made it hit home that this isn’t acceptable and I can’t carry on living on egg shells around him if he decides to drink, hoping that things are going to change when it’s been like this for 12 years.

If he really wanted to save the relationship he would have cut out the drink by now.

He needs to stop and not drink again.

Why would it be any different this time? He chooses drink over your family.

I would say he needs to leave. He needs to stop drinking permanently. Maybe if he proves he's serious this time with his actions over a sustained period you could, perhaps, consider talking again. If he wants to save it its up to him.

I would be done personally.

He flew off the handle at me in front of kids and several of his family members, swearing, ranting, calling me all kinds of names, telling me to F off etc etc.My children were upset and crying because of it. I was hugely embarrassed

The embarrassment was all his. You’ve tried standing up to him. You’ve tried being quiet. Makes no difference. There’s something wrong with him to kick off like that - whether it’s the anger or the anger enabled by alcohol. It’s nothing to do with you or your marriage. That he made your children cry in front of everyone it must have been spectacularly bad behaviour. (Yet) another verbal apology from him means what exactly? Get your ducks in a row.

He is an alcoholic.

My ex was like this and it got to the point where he drinks nothing when he has the kids. He knows that he can't just have one and he is kidding himself that he can cut down. He drinks when he doesn't have the kids and I know it's led to arguments and violence between him and his current gf but as long as our kids doesn't experience that then that is for him to sort out. Luckily they don't have kids witnessing this.

You are kidding yourself that your kids won't know and that you can shield them from it. Ex had a major wake up cal when he was in the supermarket and our dd told him not to go down the wine aisle. She was 5.