DH isn’t a feminist and doesn’t empathise wither

[SucculentSunshine]

Two examples from this evening-

Man spreading came up and he said it wasn’t a thing. I Google image it to show him. He denied men actually sit like that and argued that it can’t be very common. Most men would move their legs. Yes I say, most men would. But not all men do. And it happens often enough for it to have its own term. He wouldn’t notice because he’s not a woman.

We saw an all male advert about gambling. I mentioned how their were no women in the advert and perhaps it was sexist to assume it’s only groups of blokes that enjoy gambling together.
Nope. Maybe they just decided to go with an all male cast. It’s not sexist.

I know they are minor things but it really pushes my buttons because it feels like he down plays sexism and doesn’t even try to empathise with feminism.

I don’t know what the point of this thread is except to vent my frustration.

How do I get him to try to be open to seeing things from my perspective?

*either

Well, you married him. You must know how he speaks about women, how he treats women, the little differences between his actions and opinions towards women and men.

How does all that stack up? Is he a misogynist?

Does he have sexist expectations towards you?
Housework, cooking, mental load, childcare

I’ve tried to bring my boys up to be feminists but society and friendship groups etc steer them in different directions and I’ve found that too much of me talking to them about womens plight raises their guard and they just feel like I’m preaching….

So if anyone has had more luck I’m also interested.

Men can’t be feminists. Yes, I said it.

If you don’t believe me try this:

Next time a man talks about how he is a feminist tell him “men can’t be feminists, they can only be allies” and WATCH how that man will morph into exactly the opposite of a feminist…. You will get a sermon on what feminism is or isn’t… told you’re wrong…he might even raise his voice…he will not sit down and shut up to learn. That I can guarantee you.

Anyways, stop trying to find something that isn’t there. He can’t be a feminist but he can be a decent and respectful partner. He seems to not really respect you or your thoughts. Seems you’ve got a real sad sausage on your hands.

No advice. I had an ex like this. I was molested in a train station on holiday and he told me I was mistaken - because of course it’s very easy to grab someone’s crotch accidentally. We ended up having a row about it and he stormed off because I got upset and was ‘going on and on about it’. I was going on about his disbelief and downplaying, which was far worse than the initial incident. Makes me furious to this day to think about it.

@JustKittenAround I disagree

Of course men can be feminists. If they believe in equal rights and the equality of men and women they are feminists.

If you told me that men can't be feminists I would talk to you about what feminism is, I might even raise my voice if you were insisting you were right and I was wrong.... would that mean I'm not a feminst?? Your 'test' for whether men are feminists or not, relies on a false premise at the start.

Pressed send too soon!

... It relies on your making an inaccurate statement, and then when the other person disagrees, you use their disagreement as evidence you were right!

As a woman I've never come across anyone manspreading either, and in my own experience it generally isn't groups of women who like to gamble.
I think you're picking arguments for the sake of it if this is the extent of his crimes!

How does he feel about the big issues though not just manspreading or an advert? How does he treat you op? I think men can and should be feminists tbh; certainly any man I sleep with anyway

I don't think men can be feminists either. They can support the principles or be an ally but those who state they are feminists either turn in round to men's rights or take over

I think you picked two very trivial hills to die on there. Maybe there are lots of little things that stack up to a bigger problem but based on his comments here I would say he probably doubted man spreading, then saw his attitude bothered you and wound you up on purpose. Not necessarily better than your theory but if he generally treats women well then he doesn't need to label himself as a feminist.

Interesting responses.

He is not a misogynist. Not sexist.

Interesting that it seems these are minor things that I got cross about (they 100% are).

We’ve not been together a huge amount of time (4 years) so I think I am more frustrated by the way we don’t talk about big issues anymore like we used to in the early days.
Rather than talk or discuss, he was dismissive. And then I got angry.

So I think i’ll deal with that.

i disagree a lot with DH.
He gets upset about many things I find trivial.

I rant about some big news story I think is trivial & he argues the counter case.
Life would be boring if we always agreed.

Is the problem more that he is dismissive of you? That would bother me a lot.

But in terms of feminism, I wouldn't care. I don't call myself a feminist either. I would be observing how he treats women, especially older women, rather than his opinions on relatively minor issues. Does he pull his weight, does he behave respectfully towards women, does he care? Actions speak louder than words.

What is the definition of feminism? And why can't I be one?

Is he just arguing for the sake of it? Does he take opposing views on other stuff and get pissy about it?

I can shed light on the gambling one (I have worked in the industry)

Sports gambling is overwhelmingly done by men. Like 96% or something. The ads tend to show the types of people they know will relate. It’s not sexist, not by design anyway, it’s a commercial reality.

Ditto bingo (the other end of the gambling industry). Similarly massively weighted towards women, again well over 90%. Which is why you always see women, and never men, in bingo ads.

But it's an interesting point isnt it, and I'm glad these little micro arguments are being had as they didn't use to be. Now men are being drawn in whether they like it or not, and they might start off wanting it to go away and being dismissive, but the more we struggle as women dating men, the more micro changes are being made as we just don't drop the point, and we will vote with our feet and leave. I can definitely see that in my own relationship and its good because I and we genuinely aren't going on with the way things are. Difficult as it is, we must keep going to bring this sea change about.

@DropYourSword

As a woman I've never come across anyone manspreading either, and in my own experience it generally isn't groups of women who like to gamble. I think you're picking arguments for the sake of it if this is the extent of his crimes!

Bloodyhell. I assume you've never had to regularly commute on a packed train before????

It's not at all unusual to sit next to men on the train who manspread. I feel sorry for the tall, long legged ones - they clearly feel cramped and uncomfortable in the small spaces that are barely comfortable for much shorter people. However, many of those manspreading were pretty average or short but wanted to show how incredibly dominant or masculine they are. Doesn't matter that the woman next to them is squished and uncomfirtable. All that matters is their dominance of that space.

Also OP, from lots of personal experience on this, the ones who really manspread often won't automatically move their legs. They will be quite happy to sit like that next to you for the whole journey.

I think these are 2 odd examples you've chosen to pick to 'demonstrate' sexism

Manspreading I havent really come across hugely, the odd one or two, equally Ive sat next to lots of women on public transport who have all their bags or coats next to them taking up space. Its not 'men are terrible for taking up space', more like 'selfish people take up space'

The gambling thing is an advert and advertisers will pitch their product at their target audience, why do you think there are tons of gambling ads aimed at women who sit and go online and play bingo of an evening, trying to make out its 'fun' and part of a community, I see more ads like that than I do about sports betting which is more of a male pastime.

Just because someone corrects your misunderstanding or perception about something it doesnt mean he hates women or something

Why would you want a feminist for a DH? If you had a true dyed in wool feminist for a DH I'd wager you wouldn't like it

I'm willing to bet that many men in denial about sexism have a sudden epiphany if they have a daughter. Didn't Jay Z suddenly realise it was a bit off to call women bitches when he imagined future men using that language about his precious little girl?

We only have a son but I always try to frame things as 'imagine if that was your mum' because so many men just think of 'women' as other.

DP isn't sexist in his actions, quite the opposite. But now and then there's stuff he just doesn't notice.

As a woman I've never come across anyone manspreading either, and in my own experience it generally isn't groups of women who like to gamble.
I think you're picking arguments for the sake of it if this is the extent of his crimes!

As a woman I’ve never been raped.

All those women who say they have must be mistaken