Toxic mother

[Kelwar]

Hi all, I’m 46 and a mum of two wonderful children.. my problem is I have a really difficult relationship with my mum and I don’t really know how to handle it.. a bit of background fyi…. my parents broke up when I was 4.. due to an affair my mum had.. she met a new wealthy man when I was about 6.. and I was put into boarding school.. (weekly to start with). She didn’t pick me up and would send a cab for me on a Friday afternoon(she wouldn’t be in it)
I cried and cried about being away from
home but it was always met with coldness and an attitude that I just had to get on with it.
I lost contact with my dad when I was 13..
That bit still hurts as I adored him..
I became a full boarder at 10 until 16.. I was left at school for weekends so my mum and her bf could go on holiday together.
I left home at 18 as the physical fights and excessive drinking going on between my mother and her partner was very stressful.
It was a miserable time where
I mostly dreaded them coming home from
the pub because I knew a 9/10 a physical fight would start.
Fast forward to me having my own children and my mum moved abroad with her man and didn’t help me at all with my children when they were babies…
Once again when I needed her she was absent.
My children are 15 and 9 now and although they get on ok with my mum, there is no great relationship between them.
What I am finding now with my mum (who is 67) is that she picks arguments with me all of the time.. she knows where I stand politically and I will stand my ground, but knowing we sit on different sides of the fence I rarely bring political conversations up.. but she does it all of the time.. it’s almost like she goads me in to fighting with her.
She won’t respect that I don’t agree with her and never will.
She recently came to mine for Sunday lunch and started goading me at my own table.. it’s not the first time.
I’m becoming so sick of her and her toxicity.. everything makes her angry and she often starts conversations with ‘I was so angry when …’
What should I do.. ? I’ve tried no contact twice before but she turns up at my house and doesn’t stop contacting me until I back down.. but I’m tired of this.
I’m otherwise happy, I love my husband and children and consider myself a lucky woman to have a wonderful family..
It’s just my mothers toxic behaviour that is wearing me down… if anyone has been in a similar situation I’d appreciate some advice..

You need to decide how much you do not want her in your life. I’m your age with younger children, the best thing I ever did was go NC with my mother. My DCs were upset, they missed her at first but it was worth not having them in both mine and their lives. My youngest dosnt even know who she is.

My M is the opposite of yours, she couldn’t give a shit about me being in her life, in fact she’s done her best my entire life to make sure I was left out. It only took a couple of not answering her calls for her to be offended and stop trying. I did get one text to tell me someone had died, I knew if I’d answered it I would be sucked in. After that I blocked her number. She’s blocked on social media and I made sure she’s blocked on my DCs accounts. Officially they are too young for social media (oldest 10) but they have accounts I set up during lockdown so they could chat to their friends, they still use these. I set them up under their nicknames which my M knows and I wouldn’t put it past her to try and make contact so I’ve made sure she can’t.

I’ve been 100% honest with my DCs why I’m NC. If they choose to have a relationship with her when they are older that’s fine.

After my DF died my M tried all the guilt laying shit about how she would need to lean on me and need me to step up and be there for her, never mind I had 3 children under 6 including a newborn baby and absolutely no help from anyone, she expected me to support her even though she’d made be feel like an outsider my entire life, I don’t fucking think so. I’d spent my entire pregnancy (at 41) running round, which I was happy to do for my TI DF, that included spending time with her to give him a rest. None of my precious siblings were to be seen, these are the golden children (well one is, the other is when it suits, now my DF is dead my DBs bank account very much suites her), and my siblings are quite happy to exclude me because it’s less aggro for them where she is concerned. For some reason they think I’m ok with this, I’m not but I’m beyond caring and I have made the decision to just get on with my life without any of them. My life is so much better now.

You can get counselling through minds matters, I did and it as amazing.

If you really do want her out of your life, you have to stick to your guns, block her number, get a restraining order if she turns up. Even move if you can. I’ve moved since I’ve gone NC and it’s such a weight lifted knowing there is no chance that one day she will show up as she has no idea where I am.

Thank you all so much.. what a lovely bunch you all are.. and I’m sorry to read some of your stories too.. none of us deserved crap parents.. big love to you all.. we are all strong that’s for sure!

Look up narcissist and see if the behaviours described match your mum. I strongly suspect they will,

You’re in FOG. Fear, Obligation and Guilt. Sound familiar? What are you getting out of having a relationship with your mother other than stress and anxiety? Does she try to manipulate your DC or does she concentrate on you?

. This is a tough time deciding what to do as no contact is not an easy decision to make.

Aw thanks Billy.. you are very wise.. you all are.. it’s intersecting you say my mum doesn’t y give a shit about me.. my aunty (her sister) told me that when I was young child.. it’s always stuck..

Excellent advice above to explore FOG.

Think of this as a project to get you into the best shape you can be to leave this awful woman behind.

@LactoseTheIntolerant

The trouble is she's got to a stage in life where she needs op, so I'm not sure grey rock will work. Op read up on info about narcissts and how they operate. Ultimately however much she pesters you she has no right to your time. She has made her bed, let her care for her rich old partner by herself maybe it's kama!

@LactoseTheIntolerant- I agree! OP you say her husband is now 85 and ailing and she wants you to help her! This is why she's all over you like a rash now after neglecting you as a child! She wants YOU to step in and wipe his old arse instead of her! You must not fall into this trap! I do think your only option to save your MH and perhaps even your marriage, is to go completely NO CONTACT with her! You will need support and help with that though and I think it might be worth asking your GP if there is any free counselling available for you. I do know there was free counselling for adults who'd been abused ( she effectively emotionally abandoned you , which is abuse!) in childhood in Limerick in Ireland, so there may be in your area. It's always worth asking your GP anyway! Please do go onto the "Stately Homes" thread on MN, and get hold of a copy of "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward, as many people have experienced similar to you, having a parent, or even both, were neglectful, abusive and narcissistic. Your mother does sound very much like she's high in narcissistic traits to me but for now, what you should focus on is how she makes you feel, which is awful, so you MUST protect yourself! Do it for your DH and DC's sakes as well as your own and I wish you all the very best. You can get support and you can build yourself and your confidence and self-worth right up! You can do it OP! All the very best to you and a hug!

Sorry for you op. Yeh we years of this crap she 80. Was told she minded her mother. I go low contact but mood if I ring. I did counselling. Like you I never had help. She always put me down when I was young. I see her yes but thankful she not living too near so its on my terms. Counsellor says have stricter boundaries

I felt so sad reading your post, the sense of loneliness was very apparent.
The saddest part to read was losing contact with your dad, is this something that could be addressed? Could you reconnect with him? He might be someone positive that could be in your life?
Look after yourself....

The problem with chasing the father is that you don't "lose contact" with a parent at 13yrs old.....they abandoned you.

You’ve had good advice here. I would suggest that if you feel that you need to continue some contact that you only do that on your terms, so no visits at your house, you meet somewhere neutral like a coffee shop, for an hour, each fortnight. Grey rock for the conversation, don’t offer anything up and try not to react. When the time is up say, oh it’s 10 already, I must go, and just go. Don’t be afraid of looking rude to her, she’s never shown you that level of care so why should you?
Your mum demonstrates narcissistic behaviour so there’s loads on the Stately Homes threads and other relationships threads that will help you.
Finally I would urge you to only spend a small proportion of your time on her, focus on the positive parts of your life with your own family. Priority for the positives!

Look up Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.

Meanwhile, as you’ve discovered, if you try and cut her off, she will come back all guns blazing. You need to get to a middle ground where you do enough to keep her at arms length.

Having said that, if she is only 10 minutes away, and she has no problem with just showing up, that might prove difficult. But a good therapist (or some reading/you tubing?) would help put this together.

The only place you can start is with the first move/comment. Do not invite her over. Ever. Send a very bland text once a day (or whatever would be a normal amount of contact for you), if she reacts, just reply once or twice. Do not get in to a big discussion. Very very gradually wean these down to a back and forth six out of 7 days. Then 5 out of 7 days… etc etc.

This will ramp back up occasionally, and it’s not a long term plan (I’ve been doing it for 20 years, and it really does help, but at some point you will explode/she will explode, and you’ll start again).

It’s manageable until it’s not iyswim.

I would seriously consider a longer term plan of moving, though. Seriously. Give yourself a 2 year plan or something.

I know that sounds like a long time, but you’ve already got through the last few years. And for all you know there may be another 20 years of this. Hopefully not.

The problem is, she’s tried no contact, and as she saw, this just sets off a huge reaction. If I try and go completely NC my mother will call my children, my in laws, anyone, and everyone to get to me again.

Finding a middle way, until she finds a way out, is the calmest, and least stressful approach. It’s also easier whilst she is finding her inner lion, and getting used the idea that she doesn’t owe her mother anything.

I do agree though, keep her far away from the kids.

I agree with the counselling if you can get it. In the meantime read all of the books that have been suggested.

Just read, read, read, every thing you can to keep you sane. There might just be a phrase that will pop out at you, and you’ll go THIS is it.

My toxic mother inhabited my head til the day she died.

I agree no contact was difficult. Then she texted my son. So no easy solution. Sorry for you op.

Thanks so much Lactose.. I appreciate your kind words and sensible advice.. it will have to be NC .. she will literally have no one at all.. my brother lives too far away and he isn’t that interested in her either… karma I guess

That’s exactly what my mother does.. she contacts my son and husband of I don’t speak to her

Thanks again everyone.. X

I wrote a letter to my father about 5 years ago.. I didn’t hear back.. he absolutely hates my mother too.. but seems he’s lumped me
And my brother in to her camp.. but I’ve no idea if my brother gave me the right address.. but then again.. I’m probably making excuses for a terrible parent

I've recently gone LC with my toxic mother (email only). It helps that I live 450 miles away too. Don't back down, is my advice.

Remember you're not alone. I remind myself regularly that my mother is in her eighties and won't be around much longer.

This woman, who once said to me: "I'm sorry I damaged you." (!!!)

Tell her to fuck right off..

You will feel much better...

Look her in the eye as you say it...🤓

Yes op I had years of crap she now 80. I would say have your boundaries tight. I dont tell her much now. It will creep in look at all we did for you type comments. I visit her I do minimal which suits me. Feel for you.

Are you sure we don’t have the same mother? Mine was ( she’s dead) very similar in most of the ways you describe.
I went low then no contact with them. Tbh she rarely contacted me anyway and lived a fair distance away. I can see the problem if she lives close to you.
Do NOT get involved with her DP’s care, not your problem.
Could you tell your mother either when you’d like her to visit or meet her in a cafe say once a month? If she’s cold meet her with coldness. One coffee and ask her questions, not get into discussions. Then just walk away.

I really like billy1966’s last post. Puts things in perspective.

There are different ways to handle this and everyone is different of course.

One thing I’ve observed - if you calmly stand up for yourself and accept not one drop of abuse or poor behaviour EVERY SINGLE TIME - they will soon flounce off angry etc. Job done!

In these circumstances you don’t even have to even do NC, blocking etc. If you hold your nerve and refuse to accept and CALL OUT ANY AND EVERY example of poor behaviour, be it abuse, manipulation, whingeing, etc I think certain kinds of toxic mothers will soon toddle off. Speaking from my own experience all I saw was someone who couldn’t deal with any truth eg what they said even 2 minutes ago! They cannot deal with truth. Also puts the problem back in their court firmly where it belongs and where it always has. You are not responsible for their madness.

Just a thought.

They have trained us to put up with their terrible behaviour. They have exploited our good-nature. Until we challenge them or refuse to accept this, it will continue.