First family visit since fall out. Say my piece or let it be?

[Tinwhistler]

My dad has form for being...tactless. At least, that's that's excuse we've made for him over the years.

I should say first off that I grew up very much a daddy's girl and that he has done a lot for me over the years. If I ever needed dosh for example he always helped out. Even getting me on the property ladder. And he doesn't hold that over my head or anything.

But...on a few occasions over the years he has come out with some less than choice phrases. Eg: 'you were a smart wee baby...it's only when you got older you got stupid' and (of love, when I said I was just looking for company) 'oh that's good, I thought you were stupid (a romantic) like your mother'

Last time he was here, he told me I 'had achieved nothing with my life". Obviously that hurt.
Its not the first time he has done this. About 7 years back he did the same. Like then, it was just as he was about to leave. So both times, left me in a state of upset.

This time, I actually saw it coming on and told him to drop the discussion twice. Then left the room but he followed me and continued. He said it a few times.

I can't say that I am ambitious or particularly high achieving. But I like me. And what hurts the most is not that this is a blow to my self esteem. Its that I want to love my father...but every time I see him, I'm wary that he will say or do something to make me love him less. So I'd honestly rather just not see him.

I also, want to protect myself from it.

We have spoken on the phone since and I basically just acted as if it didn't happen. As if I was over it. But i told my mum I'd honestly be perfectly happy never to spend more than a few hours here and there with him again. I certainly don't want him in my home as I can never gage what mood he will be in and what he is going to say.

But they are needing to be near something, so they are due to come stay here for a few days again. My mum has high blood pressure and I don't want to put her in the middle of things. So I just conceeded.

Here's the thing, if you've made it this far. I'm thinking of telling him that if he ever speaks to me like he did last time again - he'll be out on his arse. That I dont give a flying fig if if things I've achieved nothing with my life. That whatever have insecurities he has about himself, he shouldnt project onto me. And that if he doesn't have anything nice to say, he shouldn't bloody well say it.

But...I dunno if I should or if I should just try and keep out of their road as much as possible and if he does ever start on that bs again, THEN say it. I dunno basically, if I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face. Upsetting myself with no need to, you know.

So...would you have a bloody word with him? Or would you hold off and just hope there is no need to?

Sorry, that was long.

When are they due to stay? It’s fine to rethink the plan based on his recent hurtful comments. Your mum doesn’t need to be in the middle of anything.

You could tell them you’re having something done to the house so can’t have visitors and just kick it into the long grass. Or you could say you’re upset about his nastiness and you don’t feel comfortable hosting them. Your mum knows, or should, what’s gone on and you can’t protect her because of high bp, it’s not a get out clause.

It sounds like there’s a weird dynamic between you all, he seems to feel his generosity isn’t being met with any effort to improve your life on your part. Is that what he’s implying? Are you or would you still accept financial help from him? Are you financially independent and paying your own way?

You can tell him to fuck off, but it’ll have consequences. Maybe that’s what you want?

For now I’d put off the visit and give yourself more time.

I'd do it privately and ask him why he's continually negging you and if he'd like you to make arrangements to give him his money back.

Ultimatum is a waste of time. He isnt changing.

I do think challenging it. Repeatedly saying "stop" and leavinf the riomtheb reentering and changing the subject is effective. .
I
f you dont want NC you need to "manage it".
Any chance your mother could come alone if you collected her /helped her?

I think you need to communicate with him.
Ring him up for a talk now and ask him why he says these things to you.
Don't be angry or accusatory just ask him. Listen to what he has to say.
Tell him you love him and how much you appreciate him. Then tell him that when he says those things it really hurts your feelings. Like somehow you're a disappointment.
Try that out and see how it goes.

I agree 100% with RantyAunty. It’s best to do it now, get it over with when he it’s there in the flesh, get angry, get upset and tell him the truth. Let him think it over before he visits.

I would speak to him before he is due to visit. Tell him you don't appreciate such comments and that he is only welcome to stay if can hold his tongue. If he says anything more tell him to find somewhere else to stay.

@sirensscreech

I would speak to him before he is due to visit. Tell him you don't appreciate such comments and that he is only welcome to stay if can hold his tongue. If he says anything more tell him to find somewhere else to stay.

I think this is a good approach. You can start by saying you love him and mum but that you feel unhappy when he says negative things to you (using I statements, not you statements).

If he tries to deflect the discussion by saying you're over sensitive, just go back to saying, that's not what we're here to talk about, we're only talking about the fact that you won't put up with negative comments from him and you would have to ask both of them to leave. Keep going back to the point you want to make (you can even say, I can see you're trying to deflect from the discussion but I'm only focusing on x point).

I'm thinking of telling him that if he ever speaks to me like he did last time again - he'll be out on his arse.

I wouldn't quite put it like this as it will likely start it all off.

OP, he's a horrible man who is being deliberately hurtful to his daughter.

You are totally right to limit your contact with him.

If you would like to have your mum there, which means him too, then I would say to him in advance: I will not tolerate being spoken to like that again; if it happens, I will ask you to leave. (The same as your suggestion, just less emotion)

Do not engage further after that.

ask him why he's continually negging you and if he'd like you to make arrangements to give him his money back.

Don't do this. It's a chance for him to hurt / manipulate you more. Who cares why he does it? He won't know. He shouldn't and that's it.

And no, don't offer him money. As your parent, he gifted you money. You do not need to pay him back because he's awful to you.

Tell him you love him and how much you appreciate him. Then tell him that when he says those things it really hurts your feelings.

Don't do this either! If he was saying mildly hurtful & tactless things, this would be ok. But he is absolutely horrible to OP. His reasons are irrelevant. And no way should she tell him she loves him & appreciates him - for what? This man is having a profoundly upsetting effect on OP, who wants her parent to show her love.

You can ask your mum to tell him to play nice or wait til he starts then tell him to leave. I think that’s pretty much your 2 choices.

@Cherrysoup

You can ask your mum to tell him to play nice or wait til he starts then tell him to leave. I think that’s pretty much your 2 choices.

Don't involve your mum.

Thanks all.

I don't think I would chat about it not in person because then it will make me more stressed if it doesn't go well, right up until they get here.

They are both coming this time due to something they need to do together this way.

I'm not worried about the money as its common in our family for parents to help out their kids property ladder wise. I guess you could argue that he may feel he has 'invested' in me. But it's not really like that - as he's always been this way. I wouldn't give up my home and security anyway as if anything that would put me more at risk of having to rely on their support again. Plus he would probably take it as a snub (I mean, what parent wouldnt tbf). And I've no wish to do that.

I had a talk with my mum last night where she was like 'ill try keep him out if your hair'. And I said 'that's not really the issue. He hasn't even apologised for his behaviour last time. And it's not the first time he has done this'. I don't want her to feel caught in the middle but I want her to have the heads up that whilst she may give him endless second chances, my patience with it all is now limited

I think I've decided to play it by ear. But that at the first hint of nonsense I'll be having words. That being said, I'm being reminded of the hurt of it even just knowing they will be here soon.

I just want to make sure thar I speak from a place of respect for myself, not...bite back out of ego or pride or like a cornered animal.

But I think I'll be hyper aware anyway so...I guess we'll see what happens.

Tbh though I have a feeling he will be on his best behaviour. This time :/

That being said, I'm being reminded of the hurt of it even just knowing they will be here soon.

I just want to make sure thar I speak from a place of respect for myself, not...bite back out of ego or pride or like a cornered animal.

You sound v self-aware OP.

Do take a moment to acknowledge your hurt. Your father has said really cruel things. Not just daft or insensitive. Of course you'd be very hurt.

Your approach too, where you want to act from a place of calm, rather than emotion, is very sensible 💐

So you are going to say nothing to him until it happens again? Doesn't sound like much of a plan tbh.

@Porcupineintherough

So you are going to say nothing to him until it happens again? Doesn't sound like much of a plan tbh.

It is a good plan.

There's no point in creating a situation that will cause the OP more upset. This way she can manage it if she needs to

If you are going to play it by ear, I would suggest that you preplan your response, so that you have a phrase ready in your head as soon as it happens.

Can you think of something you can say that won’t exacerbate the situation, but instead gets him to think about what he just said.

Along the lines of “ I know that you love me, but when you say “repeat the phrase he just used”, then that makes me feel like you don’t like me, or how I live my life. Are you disappointed with me, or feel I’ve let you down. Please explain to me why you say these things to me, and don’t think it’s matters or hurts my self esteem?”

I say this because otherwise you could find yourself just having an uncontrolled outburst ( just like I did the other day), and you just end up hating yourself.

I'm not if sure it is a good plan as it risks me being towards a state of upset again if it gets me off guard next time he does it. However, I'm weighing against the fact that if I bring it up sooner, then I'm the orchestrator of my own upset this time. And if if goes badly I may end up kicking myself that I didn't just keep quiet.

Thanks @earingsandlipstick I am trying to keep my head about it all.

He would probably say I have a fiery tempered. Though looking back I don't think I am. Apart from when I feel under attack sometimes. But even then I'm usually more of a frustrated crying sort rather than someone who bites back. I'm so annoyed at myself for crying last time though.

I think I'm going to have to detach myself a little and harden myself. Imagine armour all around me and hope it holds lol. And if I have to jab him with a sword, so be it. ...OK i took that too far xD

Good idea @sleepymum50
I don't think I will be saying 'that makes me feel...' ect or asking why he thinks that way as that kinda just gives him further amo to twist the knife in I think. I don't think it's wise to make yourself weak to people who act as he has been known too.

But maybe something like 'why would you feel that is a remotely appropriate or acceptable thing to say? Because it most certainly is not'. And then just leaving the room.

@Tinwhistler

Good idea *@sleepymum50* I don't think I will be saying 'that makes me feel...' ect or asking why he thinks that way as that kinda just gives him further amo to twist the knife in I think. I don't think it's wise to make yourself weak to people who act as he has been known too.

But maybe something like 'why would you feel that is a remotely appropriate or acceptable thing to say? Because it most certainly is not'. And then just leaving the room.

Perfect. I think you've got this OP

He's said it to you a few times. So you know he thinks that. I think you just need to accept that that's his opinion and let it go at this stage. If you already know how he feels, why does it hurt you so much each time he repeats it?
Just have one reasonable chat with him in which you explain your world view (why you're happy with your lack of ambition), tell him he doesn't need to keep on about it, and then just let it go. Why would you want to break contact over this? It sounds as though he's basically a good and caring dad who gives you plenty of practical help.

Haha let's hope.
In practice and in action might be very different things. Maybe I should practice it infront of a mirror lol.

@Moodlesofnoodles

He's said it to you a few times. So you know he thinks that. I think you just need to accept that that's his opinion and let it go at this stage. If you already know how he feels, why does it hurt you so much each time he repeats it? Just have one reasonable chat with him in which you explain your world view (why you're happy with your lack of ambition), tell him he doesn't need to keep on about it, and then just let it go. Why would you want to break contact over this? It sounds as though he's basically a good and caring dad who gives you plenty of practical help.

I have no desire to break contact with him.

He said it once 7 years back at a particularly low point in time for me. I wasn't expecting him to say it ever again as I have my shit much more together now. And of course that sort of thing is going to hurt coming from a parent. Probably even if they said it a hundred times.

The thing is too, that I wish to be more ambitious. But whenever he acts this way I go into my shell and a 'why can't can't just be me?' mode. Probably because if I were to say 'I have ambitions, here they are...' ...he has a way of...trying to get monopoly over them I suppose. Or putting a dampner on them.

Not that I am particularly ambitious but...there's a feeling of needing to dull your shine, lest he should say or do something to quash it completely.

I'm making him sound awful here. I feel bad, because he really isn't. Possibly a low level narcissist to be fair. But in many ways he has always been there for me. Practically and financially. And there is definitely love between us. Even when we butt heads.

I believe maybe hebwished he had been more ambitious. And that's why he struggles that I am not.

But its not my job to make excuses for why he behaves as he does. I try to be introspective of my own shortcomings as they are many. Perhaps I can fix those some day. Unfortunately I should probably not assume the same introspective capabilities in others. And try to recognise when to show forgiveness and when to tell ppl to back the fuck up. As politely as possible of course xD

@Tinwhistler

Good idea *@sleepymum50* I don't think I will be saying 'that makes me feel...' ect or asking why he thinks that way as that kinda just gives him further amo to twist the knife in I think. I don't think it's wise to make yourself weak to people who act as he has been known too.

But maybe something like 'why would you feel that is a remotely appropriate or acceptable thing to say? Because it most certainly is not'. And then just leaving the room.

The reasoning of doing it before is to set the tone for future behaviour. and doing it before there is a heated moment. Asking him why and saying it hurts your feelings puts it back on him. I reckon nobody has ever stood up to him much.

Tell him you don't like it and it hurts your feelings, again puts it back on him because this time you've set a clear boundary with him.
If he does it again, you know he enjoys hurting your feelings.
Then you apply the consequences to him of low contact or whatever you decide.

Sure it's scary and you may get upset but I think you'll feel proud of yourself for standing up for yourself and saying clearly that enough is enough.

If you're worried him being angry and cutting you off financially, then I wouldn't do anything. Pretend you didn't hear him, grey rock.

‘I may be (stupid, lack ambition or whatever choice of insult repeated back to him) but I’m never going to be so cruel or nasty to my children. You’ve taught me the perfect example of how NOT to be a parent’