Is this an Emotional Affair?

[user606]

I have found out that my H has been involved in a friendship (his words) with a former work colleague that he's known for over 20 years. They have a history in that he kissed her while he was with me years ago and I found out. I left him briefly and he promised he wouldn't speak to her again despite them continuing to work together.

There have been messages between them, he assures me "only as friends" where they have supported each other as both marriages are going through a bad patch.

I discovered that they had met up together recently behind my back. I am certain he would have never told me but I found out and confronted him. He denied it claiming he had no idea what I was on about for a good 20 minutes before admitting it. He promises that it was purely as friends and feels terrible about it.

He swears there's been no physical acts and I do believe him. My gut has always been absolutely spot on with him, I knew recently there was something going on hence my digging and discovering this.

He reckons he deleted all the messages between them last week after their meet up as he felt so guilty. He admitted this after I demanded for the millionth time that he show me the messages between them. He showed me that there were no messages. He did go out of the room during the discussion and part of me thinks he deleted them then.

He's saying he absolutely hasn't had an affair. I think it's an emotional one at the very least - am I right?

I am beyond devastated and heartbroken. I can't sleep and feel like I'm going to be sick most of the time.
I am also seriously thinking of contacting her husband as I think he has a right to know his dear wife is meeting up with another man whilst they're working out their marriage troubles. I told my H this and his response was that the bigger this gets the worse it'll affect our child.

If this was your daughter in this situation what would you want her to do?
Bare in mind this is the second time your OH lied to you. You did say 'he promised he wouldn't speak to her again' the first time around? That promise mean't nothing did it? Do you think he will keep his next one?

Just been told by a friend OW has definitely blocked me on FB and my H is still friends with her on there.
I am distraught, maybe he hasn't thought to delete her yet but this is so, so disrespectful considering everything.

@user606

Thanks *@AllOfUsAreDead* They no longer work together. Apparently him leaving his old job is when this all began, as he was leaving they decided to swap numbers to keep in touch. I asked him WTF he was playing at doing that. He said he honestly saw no harm in it as he doesn't see her as anything other than a friend.

Bullshit, he kissed her! She is his affair partner, not a friend!

Ask him how he would feel if you kept in contact with a man you kissed while you were married to this tosser. See how he would like it, would he be OK with the friendship? Bet he wouldn't.

And he's still friends with her on fb. He deletes her number, with you watching so you know he has done it, and removes her on fb. Otherwise he can fuck off.

@user606

Thank you for the replies. I am absolutely broken. My gut instinct told me that something wasn't right but I didn't want to believe it.

When I am able to sleep I hate waking up and this being the first thought in my mind. How could he do this to me? We were meant to be working through our marriage troubles together.

I have asked and asked why he felt the need to delete the messages. He said knowing how I felt about her he knew I'd be upset at some of the content although there was definitely nothing sexual. Last night he did show me that he'd messaged her to tell her he regrets meeting her and he won't be speaking to her again. She just replied that she agreed.
They could have obviously planned those between them knowing he'd show me.

It looks as though she has blocked me on FB (I wasn't her friend but her account was visible and where my suspicions began thinking it was her). This is highly suspicious in my opinion.
However I have been able to find her husband - I feel incredibly guilty for thinking about telling him as they have 2 very young children. I don't want to be responsible for this man's heartache and them possibly splitting up but I do think he should know.

I am in complete turmoil about what to do now. He's said he'll move out and understands we can never come back from this as I'll never be able to trust him again. I haven't felt as though I've loved him for a long time but now I'm terrified of losing him. It's as though this has made me realise what he means to me. The thought of him not being here is horrible but is he right, will I forever be wondering what he's up to?

I haven't treated him as well as I should have. I guess I stopped making the effort and put others before him, I do a lot with my family and friends. He said he's felt as though he's worthless to me and just here to pay the bills. I do understand and whereas he has made changes to improve things in recent months (his EA aside) I have not. I think it's a realisation that's come too late for me and I am heartbroken.

The fact that he has said he will move out is interesting. Usually men beg to stay unless they are ready to move on with the OW! It sounds as if he has some future plans as he's not fighting to stay.

It is completely understandable to fear a future that you don't know but it HAS to be better than this shit.

He says he doesn't feel valued. He's getting that feeling from her which is often the case in an affair even if not real day to day. Men will say anything to justify their actions though and yes there may some truth in there but that is still no reason for an affair. If he was unhappy he could have left. He is making you blame yourself for his actions.

Honestly? Time to let him go. Start a new life and when you have a new relationship take your lessons you have learnt with you.

Meant to add - he is a liar and a cheat. I've been there and thought I didn't want to leave - it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

I haven't treated him as well as I should have

Then he should have come to you and talked to you about the fact that he didn't feel his needs were being met. This has no bearing on his having covert relations with another woman.

I am also struck by his willingness to move out. He says he realises that you can't move on. He is setting the scene and laying the decision and the responsibility at your door. What a coward.

My husband also was fine with moving on and accepting we couldn't come back from his affair with a work colleague. Found out it was because they were planning on being together. I'd 100% contact her husband, he has a right to know what's coming and I only wish someone had told me what was going on so I could've at least try to prepare for the shock.

@user606 I know I don’t know this man from Adam, but it is very, very likely that the message he showed you was orchestrated. In the early days of discovery, the lying and manipulating goes crazy as they try to control a previously secretly managed situation which is now rapidly spiralling out of control.
Until very recently giving her up on discovery was a choice he could conveniently put off. Now no longer. Now suddenly forced to choose, he doesn’t know if he can give her up or give up his life with you. Easiest option? Discuss the emergency plan with her and get her to reply to a fake message, lie low for a while and let the dust settle.
Sorry OP, but you’re blocked and he’s still friends with her on FB for a reason. Discovered cheaters go nuts trying to cover tracks and delete anything incriminating. Of course he’s thought of Facebook. Easiest way to communicate undiscovered now. Neither of them want to block each other on FB but they don’t want you to see either. Of course he won’t have forgotten to delete her on FB. After the length of time this has been going on for, it’s unlikely either of them would just slam the door in each other’s faces for good. Affairs rarely end as cleanly as this.

It’s not pleasant to tell her husband what is going on, but if I thought anyone knew anything like this about my spouse, even a stranger, and didn’t tell me, I’d be equally devastated to find out later. I’d definitely want to know. Of course she will tell her husband that you are crazy and controlling and he is just a former work colleague, and this is all nonsense, but then what he believes isn’t your problem. You’ll have told him the truth and then you step away from them.
If your husband is saying he wants to move out as he believes you will never get over it, he’s not exactly fighting for this, is he? Acting this way, blaming you, pretending he’s finished with her, I’m so sorry, but I’d call his bluff now, let him go. That way you’ll find out what he really wants.
What is most important however is what you want. Of course you’re scared, of course now you feel as though you want to cling to him, it’s natural. If you want to reconcile with him, then at present I wouldn’t advise it. He needs to wake up to and fully admit what he’s done, apologise profusely, blame himself and nobody else, and obviously never see or communicate with this woman again. So far, I don’t think he’s done any of these things, so for me he wouldn’t be a safe bet. You can try the colossal kick up the arse of telling him that until he does all of the above you want nothing to do with him, tell him what your conditions for trying again are and that if he can’t meet them you’re done. You have to be brave to do this, but if he won’t agree to what you want, he’s still likely to do this again, if he isn’t still doing it already.
But one thing that you definitely must stop NOW is blaming yourself. Both you and the other poster who is blaming themselves and the state of the marriage for their husbands’ affairs need to stop that. It isn’t true. You husband is to blame for this. I don’t give a shiny shit how neglected he felt, how unnoticed or invalidated, how poor he thought your marriage was. Those were marriage issues to be solved by discussion, like adults who made vows to one another. He should have discussed that with you, tried to find a way forward together. If that clear request was ignored or impossible to reach, he should have ended the marriage. Those were the only morally right and fair options available to him. Having a secret relationship was not a valid option. You were in the same marriage as him, and you didn’t do this in response to any issues. He did. His choice, his responsibility, not yours. Not the marriage’s fault. His.
Let that sink in: you did not force him, you did nothing to which the only available response was infidelity. There is never an excuse for infidelity. It’s a wrong choice, no grey area whatsoever. Yes, life is complicated and but black and white, but the morals of affairs are black and white. Affairs are plain wrong. Affairs are never the right thing to do without prior consent, and never the fault of anyone except the person having the affair. The marriage is a totally separate issue for which you take 50% of the responsibility. You are not to blame for the affair, 100% his choice, (unless he asked you for permission first. I’m assuming not) 100% his responsibility.
As long as he continues to blame you and the marriage, he isn’t really sorry, he isn’t remorseful and has decided to blame shift his inexcusably awful behaviour over to you in the most reprehensible fashion. Ugh.
Think about what you want to happen next and under what conditions. Communicate that to him clearly with the promise that if he can’t agree to it, you are done. If he’s saying he’s done, let him go, the bloody idiot. I’m saying this stuff because I’ve been there and know what you are feeling and know which mistakes I made in the early stages after discovery. At present think of him as a liar and take nothing he says at face value, he’s either in damage limitation mode and/ or looking for a ‘noble’ way out of this. So he’ll do what he’s been doing for a long time to get himself by, he’ll lie. The penny hasn’t dropped for him yet. Let it drop, OP. Just take great care of yourself now. X

Hi op, I'm so sorry you're going through this, finding out your husband is not the man you thought he was.

The revelation this this person who you trusted implicitly is an imposter.
The first days and weeks are extremely hard trying to make sense of the information you have and don't have and feeling as though you must make decisions, definitely fight or flight mode is kicking in.

Do you tell people, if you tell others there will be no going back with some relationships, he and you, separately and as a couple will be viewed differently. I do think you know his responses have not been the correct responses, he is blaming you and minimising his actions, you therefor want validation from others to know that you were wronged. It is human nature to want support do not let him stop you from doing this.

His responses tell me what his character is like, he is keeping all options open at the moment, don't believe his tears they are for himself, he is still lying.
It takes a massive shift to stop trusting someone you once trusted totally, he recognises this and is manipulating you and the situation for his survival. His survival is whatever outcome is best for him, he is not thinking of you at this point, your loss, your grief, your betrayal.

Look through his eyes, if you were in his possition how would you deal with all of the condemnation that will come his way if others know and his controlling the situation so as to continue keeping his friendship with her still going. He's a nasty, secretive liar who belives he deserves everything and you are currently turning yourself inside out still trying to hold onto the fact he is a decent man. He is not, every action, every cover up has been premeditated, thought out and concealed for him to get one over on you.

Does he deserve your loyalty at the moment, hell no !

He is self serving and selfish and has taken away your choices whilst he lied and chatted up this woman behind your back.

Contact her husband, he will want to know, do not let your husband dictate if he should be told, you are now in control of your own decisions, stop leaning on your h for any answers.

His answers are all for the benefit of him.
Be strong and assertive in your actions, do not apologise and do not be shamed into thinking any action you take is part of the reasons why he had an affair. It is nothing to do with any of your actions past or present.

He has to own this and take any future consequenses.

for you

Now chin up, you have done absolutely nothing wrong, not one word of blame to yourself, you remained in this marriage honest and truthful, he is the one who has broken the marriage vows, he must take responsibility for the affair and the first starter is talking to her husband and preventing any more secrets and cover ups to flourish between them.

Thank you all for taking the time to read and for your advice and support.

We talked more last night, I was honest and told him I wasn't sure I want us to end. He said he's not sure he can live his life walking on eggshells with me watching his every move.

He is truly sorry and knows he was wrong but absolutely will not accept that he has had an affair. He cannot get it in his head that just because he hasn't had sex with her it doesn't mean they haven't had an affair.
In fact, he told me that he'd been speaking to his mate about it and he said "but what happened in the past between you two was years ago". Like that matters. He is a serial adulterer by the way.

He'd planned to move out over Easter weekend but I don't want to rush this decision. It is utterly heartbreaking. I feel so guilty that I'm not enjoying the school holidays with my little girl, I don't even have the energy to take her anywhere ☹️

He said he's not sure he can live his life walking on eggshells with me watching his every move.

I'm so sorry OP that you are going through this.

But his comment above is very telling. you were not watching his every move, until you got suspicious as to what he was up to, and lo and behold revealed he was chatting and meeting someone he had previously cheated on you with and had promised not to ever again be in touch with.
That sentence is him playing the victim. You are being painted as the cause of this.

Don't let him reverse it like that. He wants you to agree to never questioning him again. Why might that be, we wonder?

This woman is not 'just a friend'. He didn't delete the message because he thought he felt so 'guilty'. He deleted the messages because there were things in them that would spectacularly hurt you if you read them. But he wasn't sparing your hurt, op. He was saving his own skin.

Just tell him "you have had an affair."

Also tell him you will be confiding in your friend about whether or not this is an affair.

Your friend will be her husband, let him judge whether this relationship has been innapropriate.

User606, he is trying to install fear in you threatening to leave, instead of him being remorseful he is twisting this situation to make you absorb the blame. As a pp said if you accept his narrative then in future you will be expected to put up and shut up.

Don't let this devious pair get away with it.
Hold your nerve, you are in the right.

By the way, him bringing his friend into the discussion is him starting a smear campagne against you, you being the over the top, crazy jealous, paranoid partner.

Take no notice of his friend with zero morals.
He's trying to shame you into shutting up.

I really want to text her and ask why she's felt the need to block me. Why she thought it was appropriate to go out with another woman's husband. Why she would want to play a part in destroying a family.
And yes, I want her to sweat and sit at home with her husband and children wondering if and when I will contact him.

I know I need to let my anger towards her go, but it's consuming me. At least I can shout and scream at my husband, she is simply still updating her profile picture to yet another pouting pose as though no harm has been done. Vile, vile creature.

He might not think it’s an affair if no sex involved— you are very much entitled to consider it an affair if he was meeting up with/ communicating all the time with someone he had a previous involvement with totally behind your back— anyone’s allowed friendships of either sex in a healthy relationship but my own personal view is they need to be in broad daylight for the partner— and if not then why not?

@Crikeyalmighty

He might not think it’s an affair if no sex involved— you are very much entitled to consider it an affair if he was meeting up with/ communicating all the time with someone he had a previous involvement with totally behind your back— anyone’s allowed friendships of either sex in a healthy relationship but my own personal view is they need to be in broad daylight for the partner— and if not then why not?

Exactly. He told me he couldn't have told me about their friendship due to the issues I'd had with her in the past!!!! Obviously I came straight back with yes the fact that you kissed her while in a relationship with me.

He cannot see that it's absolutely inappropriate to be back in touch with her knowing how hurtful it would be to me. Yes we've been going through a really, really difficult patch over the past few months but his answer has been to confide in her.

Yes we've been going through a really, really difficult patch over the past few months but his answer has been to confide in her

Yes it's the chicken and egg analagy.

Were you not getting on because he was busy tending his other friendship taking away his emotional enery from you to her.

Again, don't blame yourself.

energy

I asked when she'd ever met him and she told me they'd been for coffee once, this was a separate occasion than the one I knew

This is how you know he’s still lying to you. They’ve met up plenty of times. They’re covering for each other. This is a horrible situation where they’re on the inside together and you’re on the outside.

He cheated with her, and is now trying to maintain that his friendship with her, while they allegedly supported each other through simultaneous ‘bad patches’ in their respective marriages, is innocent.

He’s a liar.

I’m concerned that you’re now trying to fight for him to stay. He should be doing that. And you know your anger is misplaced. It should be at him, not her.

Don’t put yourself through years of misery. That will do your daughter more harm than you kicking him out until you decide what you want. You should hold all the cards here. Don’t not kick him out for fear he’ll go to her…

If your husband says he is willing to leave - is it because she is leaving her husband and family to be with him? Or is it more power play from him? Don't get sucked into the trap of begging him to stay at all costs.

The mechanics of what they did or didn't do don't really matter. You may never get the truth from either of them so there's no point going searching for proof of the extent of what they did. But here's what you can prove:

He broke his promise to you that he would cut all contact, after a previous transgression with her.
He lied to you about meeting her.
He omitted other meetings that he had with her.
He omitted to mention to you that he was messaging her.
You know there were messages
You know he deleted them.
He's talking about walking away /moving out because the trust is broken - he's right on this one, it is. And I suppose he speaks from experience on this one.

He can argue that they didn't have sex - but he can't prove that they didn't because he deleted everything before you got a chance to see it. Equally though, he can't disprove your accusation that they did have sex - because he's deleted the messages between them. He has every reason to prove to you that it was only friendship and not much much more. So that begs the question, why can't he?

Cut your losses...been there done that got the t-shirt . P.s. he will only admit to the points you've raised rather than the whole truth. Again, cut your losses, it will hurt but you're better off in the long run :) x

Like pp have said don't make any decisions until you feel stronger.
Men don't understand emotional affairs. But he will eventually.
He's right about one thing
If your marriage is survive you will need ti get passed this.
I know many marriages which have.
They are better , stronger than ever before.
I personally think him moving out would be a mistake.
You need ti be together to make it work.
Shelf the problem for a bit and do some fun stuff together
If love was ever there it can be rebuilt
The fact you recognise your part in the break down , puts you in a very empowering position.
You can make this relationship into what you want - or not.
But it is totally up to you.

The last thing your husband said is correct, which sucks because taht's convenient for him isn't it, the one who's actually caused this.

You do not delete messages from a person you see behind your partner's back unless they were something he wouldn't want you to see.

In a case such as his though where he maintains they are friends you would 100% keep the messages to show your spouse if and when this ever came up.

I would bet my right arm he's cheated.

I'd simply tell him our marriage is now open.