Think mother is a narcissist... What to do next?

[Blippymyblippy]

My mother has come to stay, and as usual I have a feeling that something is off. I always end up feeling defensive and attacked, and then feel bad because my mum is so happy to be here etc.

She always turns any conversation back to herself, will occasionally ask questions but doesn't let me finish my answer - she just waits until she has an in to talk about herself again. She has always said that I am very oversensitive and overreact to things. She often talks about how wonderful my childhood was, and at times she has pressed me to recount my wonderful memories; once, we had been drinking wine together and I actually told her the truth about some of the things she said to me (ruined her relationships, only looked after me because she was obliged to etc) and I felt awful afterwards in case I had hurt her feelings but she didn't seem to remember.

Cut to today, and two things stand out. We were at the playground with my children (aged 6 and 3) and a toddler pushed them to get to the slide. My 6 year old was unhappy to have been pushed, so we talked about it and what is the correct behaviour at the playground etc. All the while my mum was rolling her eyes and saying, but the child was younger than you! It was barely a push!

And then we bumped into a friend of mine, and in the course of the conversation my mum made a joke. I referred jokingly to the joke a minute later and received an outraged, 'that's nasty!' in response from my mum. Fair enough, I thought, I am nasty, and I often say the wrong thing by mistake. But then I thought I'd test something out, so after my friend had left, I asked my mum what she thought was nasty about what I had said, and she told me that she had never called me nasty, she wouldn't do that.

So.... Now I'm thinking that's maybe the evidence I need that it's not just me, that this incessant niggling over the years, all these fun 'jokes' about how I'm fat and ugly etc etc maybe weren't just me being oversensitive. Maybe she's a proper narcissist.

Part of me feels like jumping for joy, as I feel like maybe I'm not this awful person who's just mean to my wonderful, lovely, kind mum.

And the other part of me wonders, what do I do next? And especially with my children, as they love their gran but the older one is starting to pick up on the little comments and they are confusing her. Do I need to explain to her? Or to protect her?

I've not posted on here before but have read some brilliant advice so hoping you can help me make sense of it all. Thanks

Go no/low contact. I wouldn't say anything to her about what you've realized, as she might be genuinely nasty in response.

You need to protect her. If she is picking up on things, you need to protect her.

I've been nc with my mother for 10 years and I've not regretted it once. Not suggesting ypu jump straight to that but it's an option many have taken.

I discovered afterwards that my children didn't actually love their grandma at all. She made them feel confised, upset, uncomfortable, on edge and showed no interest in them as individuals, again only in what they could do for her.

And I agree with not talking to your mother about it.

OP it’s like you are describing my own mum. My mum will do the exact thing as yours. It’s really hard not to react. My mum is now 72 and has relocated to Spain so there is minimal contact. I do love the side of my mum that is the kind one but the actual truth is she is easiest, and very openly too, her opinions will always matter more than anyone else’s, she remembers things differently and if you pull her up on her remarks or behaviour, also when she was much younger, she would blow over and be really abusive. It’s tricky to have a relationship with people who are like this.

Blimey, can I join the club?! My mum was recently complaining to her sister that me and my brother moved away. She claims we had the same idyllic childhood as her sister’s dc-riding lessons, family trips out, really close to both parents. (That was my cousin’s childhoods, not mine! My mum couldn’t even get me to the orthodontist despite having all the school holidays off, I had a huge overbite)

All of my aunt’s children live within 15 minutes of their parents. They are seriously enmeshed (and think I’m outrageous for not visiting every few weeks). My mother re-tells my childhood like it was halcyon days. She too likes to talk about herself only. It amazes me.

to everyone going through or who has gone through the same thing.

Will she be aware that she is doing it? I don't feel like I can go NC or low contact as she relies on me so heavily. I will try to keep my children away though, which will be quite easy to do as she never asks about them anyway.

I was feeling quite jubilant a couple of hours ago and now I feel more anxious than ever!

Exactly the same here. My mother makes me so unhappy.

Oh god yeah that moment of beautiful clarity that comes when you realise it wasn't a case of them being above reproach and you being stupid/horrible. You are at the start of a beautiful journey back to your inner child regardless of what happens now. It would be good for you to read about childhood aces and childhood trauma and scapegoating to get you started.

Will she be aware that she is doing it? I don't feel like I can go NC or low contact as she relies on me so heavily. I will try to keep my children away though, which will be quite easy to do as she never asks about them anyway

If she is a narcissist they yes likely she will be aware that her goal is frustration, confusion and manipulation to push her own needs and her agenda. There are a lot of your mother around. Really it is childhood trauma and shitty damaged coping strategies coupled with non agreeable (rigid) closed (no self awareness to allow for personal growth) personality traits that cause these behaviours and then some extreme emotional immaturity.

If you think how emotionally available your mother’s parents were to that generation you can see how they are basically toddlers from an emotional point of view and they seek to get their needs met via their children.

I would be looking online for strategies for dealing with narcissists there is loads of good information on you tube but ultimately you are talking about putting in place rigid emotional boundaries via grey rock or alternatively LC/NC.

They do know they're manipulating and hurting people (though of course they'd lie and say they don't- lying is their favourite game after all.)

As to her care etc needs @Blippymyblippy , could you contact social services and get her assessed for any help she needs? If she had to, she might well 'miraculously' be able to do the things anyway. But she gets a kick psychologically out of making you run around after her.

My Dad is a Narc. Had the 'final straw' moment and am now no contact.

Funnily enough I watched the following video last night. I cried watching it. Hope it helps...

Please can I ask, what is grey rock?

@me4real, luckily we don't live close enough to help her out day to day. It's more the emotional support of regular phone calls, messages etc

I'm starting to doubt myself. It feels like a big thing to put this label on her. But we went out for early dinner this evening and afterwards, I said that I was full, and my mum replied that so was she although she hadn't eaten as much as me, but then she said she shouldn't say that because I'll get angry with her. I am quite sensitive about my weight, but largely because she has always told me that I'm fat (I'm 5' 7" and a size 12, so not out of the ordinary).

And then I remembered that I never believed in Father Christmas because my mum wanted to get the credit for all the presents. She also takes credit for the presents she gets my children, so we had to modify what we told them about Father Christmas so that she didn't blow it for them.

Does this sound like narcissistic behaviour?

What's interesting there is that she says something to provoke you then says she shouldn't say it because you'll get angry. It's the double bind. She acknowledges that she's said something you'd be within your rights to react to but then plays it so that if you do react in any way it would be unreasonable. Does she do this generally? Read about double binds. That's some more homework for you

Thanks @speakball. I never knew that was a thing but it is something she does quite frequently - one thing I have said to her in the past is to please give me a list of appropriate responses and the tones in which I am allowed to say them, (and I only say it half-jokingly) as she quite frequently has an issue with my response.

When she first arrived to stay with us, she told me something very hurtful about my appearance that I can do absolutely nothing about. She literally told me and then said, I shouldn't have said that because now you're cross and I only wanted to help you. I broached it again yesterday (fake apology to see how she felt about it) and apparently she had been so wounded by my reaction (and yes I was a bit sad rather than bowled over by her kindness) that she had to cling onto something for support (we were standing up at the time). My terrible behaviour had physically weakened her. It's definitely a pose I remember from my childhood.

Please if any of this doesn't sound like narcissism, can you guys tell me? I feel like I'm trying to build a case against her so I can 'escape', but I don't want to label or accuse her falsely.

Above all, I can't believe that she would do this on purpose. She tells me that she loves me more than anything in the world etc etc and that my phone calls are the only thing that keeps her going etc etc. But really it seems like what keeps her going is making me feel like shit

Your second guessing and confusion is actually evidence of the confusion your mum has created. When I've been unsure if I'm on the right track about someone's behaviour I compare them to someone who I know is kind and then you can see the contrast clearly. For example comparing a disordered relative with a lovely relative, the lovely relative never made me feel responsible for their feelings, I never left their house feeling worse then when I got there, I never had to brace myself for spending time with them, I never had to do mental gymnastics to excuse cruelty, I never cried after interactions, I never felt angry or disgusted with them.

The label doesn't matter, if they make you feel crap and behave like they don't even like you, whoever they are, you have every right to walk away with peace in your heart. Imagine someone was saying this about you, that you were making them feel like this, you would want them to move away from you, you wouldn't want them to put theirselves in a position where they felt they were getting distressed, you would let them move on with your blessing. I'm a mum and I am very sure that if I was making my children feel anything other than my full love and support I would want them to get away and stay away. And ultimately this is how you have to think, you need to parent yourself, keep yourself away from psychological harm.

'Please if any of this doesn't sound like narcissism, can you guys tell me?'

It absolutely does sound like narcissism to me. However, how would it feel to park the label for now, and instead to focus on the impact that her behaviour has on you. It sounds like she makes you feel confused, anxious and concerned about the impact she has on your children. The reason for her behaviour is less important than the impact it has on you. It sounds like you're just starting to explore all this, and it's quite normal to go back and forth and second guess yourself. It's likely that she has trained you very well to put her needs first, above your own, and that is a very hard lesson to unlearn

Totally agree with @Lottapianos about shifting the focus to how your mother makes you feel and use that to guide your actions. Forget about the label. It doesn’t matter.

A moment of clarity is knowing you're just as important as them, not less, equally.

I agree with @Lottapianos OP.
The best way to deal with it now is to focus on how all this is making YOU feel, rather than what's going on with her. For now anyway.
From what you've posted, she makes you feel bad every time you have any contact with her, then you're second-guessing yourself and feeling guilt that, IMO anyway, is not yours to carry. You're head is now wrecked from trying to work out what the Hell is she at and people who are good for us don't tend to do that. We tend to know where we stand with them, at least most of the time and we can relax and be ourselves with them. We don't have to wonder and question for ages what they meant when they said or did this or that ,because it's clear. They don't play games.
Do read "Toxic Families" by Susan Forward and have a read of the "But we took you to stately homes" thread on MN. There are so many women who are going through, and have gone through similar experiences with their mother or father and you are far from alone.
I wish you all the best OP and I'm sorry, I really do think it's not you who's the problem, it is very much your DM.

Thanks so much everyone, your advice is very much appreciated as it stops me feeling like I'm being mean and awful! And it makes good sense to park the label for now and just concentrate on behaviour (although she's going home this morning so at least we get a rest from it!)

She didn't cover herself in glory yesterday - she upset my older daughter several times, including once at lunchtime where she criticised her for pulling faces when she was 'only trying to be kind' and then literally turned her back on her. On a 6-year-old . I was unsure how to best handle it but I ignored my mother and went to my daughter to comfort her and tell her she'd done nothing wrong. We're going to have a talk about it all today after grandma has gone.

And my husband is angry with her too, not just for everything I've told him he been happening while he's at work, but he also overheard her on the phone telling her friend that the children have exhausted her, while my little one was right next to her .

I never want her to upset and confuse my children again like that, and it was very painful to see. That said (and I do hate myself a bit for saying it) it was helpful for me to see it so blatantly as it made me realise that I haven't been overreacting for the best part of 40 years, and in fact if my mother treated me like she has treated my daughter, I am fully justified in being angry, and fully understand why I feel so confused and conflicted.

I've ordered 'Toxic Parents' and will read that as a next step.

I am NC with my mum, for around 15 or so, they have been mostly happy, (free of her) drama years. I know she won’t ever change. I would never agree to anymore contact, under any circumstances. How I feel about my mum, is just like someone I used to know, I don’t wish her any harm, I just want her to stay away from me & my family (my boys wouldn’t know her, they were 6 & 4 when we stopped contact)

Since having my own children, I know I would never treat them the way she treated me over the years.

Whether she knows about my illness, from other family members, who knows, I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, 10 years ago. Now Secondary Progressive. But .I just don’t need the stress of her in my or my families life.

I can only imagine the drama that she would have caused with my MS diagnosis, which I really didn’t need at a very worrying time, while trying to recover from an acute relapse. I expect she would have blamed me, everything was always my fault!

Reading this was just like my own mother and I'm recently NC with her. I am having therapy to get over the guilt I feel about it. I don't think my mum is necessarily to blame, she's wired that way because of her own fucked up childhood. None the less, I want to break the cycle and therapy has helped me realise I don't owe her my unhappiness to protect her.

As kids with narcissistic parents, we would have been wired to feel responsible for their happiness, and made to feel response for their responses. That is hard wired in you like it is for all children of narcs. Therapy has helped massively with helping me see I don't need to be responsible for her reactions any more

@Roselilly36. Sounds like you made a good decision to go NC, especially with having MS too, it would be awful trying to factor your mother's ego into your illness. I'm sorry you don't have the mother you deserve, sending lots of good vibes your way

Hello

I have been through similar with my 'D'M and have read loads which has been enlightening. I think you would benefit from therapy, it took me a while to find the right therapist but it helps immensely to talk it all through and gain clarity.
I don't know if my M is narcissistic but I think it doesn't matter what I have learned is how important it is to be your own best friend and be kind to yourself (hence my username) and notice how your inner voice speaks to you. You should be talking to yourself as you do your children - with love and compassion- I noticed that I was really critical which is not helpful.
Your mum has issues which you can't change- only she can do that and only if she really wants to. You need to be your best self for you. You deserve it. You're allowed to have emotions and feelings and it sounds as though she makes you feel bad for that.