Parasitic ex has taken DD's savings

[cool4cats2020]

My ex has always been terrible with money - in debt when we met (which I bailed out), made our life challenging financially throughout our relationship. And even after splitting up 7 years ago, has bounced from one financial calamity to another - in debt constantly, no money and nothing to show for it, all whilst living on the breadline. A total mystery where it goes. She alcoholic, and has mental health issues (BPD), so is very up and down and inconsistent. Sometimes she's fine with me, other times she's the most vile, nastiest person you could imagine.

We've got 3 kids together (aged 8 to 13yrs). Nearly every time they are due to visit her (eow generally), she messages me at the last minute asking to 'borrow' money so she can afford to feed the kids. Generally nothing ever gets paid back, but if it enables the agreed contact to me maintained then so bit it. She's never paid me a penny in maintenance since the kids moved to me from her (at insistence of social services). I've kept track of what I've lent her, and it's been hovering at around £1000 for some time now.

Ex has just split up with her current partner though (and it was current partner who was working and bringing in the household income, ex herself hasn't worked in ages and just collects some universal credits/JSA). So now she's in an even bigger mess financially - single with no partner income to sustain her. Probably won't be able to stay in the 2 bed flat she's renting - the LL has already said they wouldn't give her a tenancy just in her name. If she ends up somewhere smaller a) it won't be any cheaper because rents have increased over what she's paying, and b) it won't be big enough for her to have overnight contact with the kids. It probably sounds bonkers, but I've been seriously considering just giving my ex a weekly allowance to help her keep a roof over her head so the kids can keep up meaningful contact with their mum.

Eldest (DD 13) is very loyal to her mum, and has started making noises about wanting to go and live with her (in my DD's words - so she can help to look after her mum). Obviously that's undesirable due to aforementioned alcoholism and social services involvement.

But today I've found out that DD has transferred all of the money from her savings account that I'd been building up as a nest egg for her (several thousand pounds), to her mum. This happened a couple of months ago, and the account balance has sat at zero ever since. Looking back through the statements it started off as lending her £50 here and there, which was generally repaid. Then £3k was withdrawn over the space of a few weeks, couple of hundred at a time.

DD says she transferred the money to her mum of her own accord - ex hasn't accessed her accounts and done it herself, allegedly. I've warned DD not to lend money to her mum ever since she got access to online baking (and I became aware of £20 here and there going from and then back to her current account). DD says ex is going to pay it all back - clearly no chance of that since she's more in debt than ever, no longer has a partner to subsidise her, and hasn't yet paid anything back since the money was taken.

I'm bitterly disappointed with DD for giving all her savings away (but more for not telling me what was going on, and covering her tracks). I thought she was old enough and mature enough to have some financial responsibility (she is generally very level headed and well behaved). But absolutely kicking myself for letting it happen, knowing how manipulative my ex can be. And now concerned DD is turning into her own mother.

“And now concerned DD is turning into her own mother.“

Please be careful. There is something odd about you saying this. Her mother is an alcoholic adult with problems. You despise her and don’t like her. Yet you have compared your very young daughter to this woman you don’t respect or like.

She is a child at an age which is extraordinarily difficult. She was trying to help her mother, poor little thing. This thread is heartbreaking actually.

@KELLOGSspeck

Your ex doesn't sound suitable to have your kids EOW. Surely she would be better visiting or meeting in public where you can be near by.

I don't think she is suitable either really. But that's the contact that social services advised the courts to award her, and so that's what she got. I was surprised they thought that was appropriate shortly after they'd decided the kids were at risk in her full time care, and until the child arrangement order was finalised she was only allowed supervised contact.

To be fair she's been relatively stable since having the kids EOW. But then she has had a partner living there sharing the load of supervising the kids and keeping her somewhat on the straight and narrow. Now they've split that support has gone, and indeed I'm not sure if the split has knocked the ex's mental health.
So I'd be going against the court order to prevent the agreed contact. And when the kids arrive on her doorstep looking forward to seeing her, and she then says she needs money to feed them, what else can I do but sub her?

I'm now reliant on my eldest DD being able to identify if/when ex is drinking/not coping. And this thing with the money has really eroded my trust in DD being safe to do that - her loyalty to her mum become more apparent recently and there have been a few occasions come to light of her 'covering' for her mum.

The child savings account was initially operated over the counter by the parent (me). Ex didn't know it existed as I set it up after we'd separated (we never had any spare money to save whilst we were together). Then after a few years DD became old enough for, and was given, a current account by the bank. So she got a debit card for that and we setup online access for her to manage the current account. But doing so automatically included online access to the savings account. And the bank said it wasn't possible for any parental supervision on their childrens accounts.

That's how it came about that she had access to it. Yes, with hindsight I should have closed the savings account and moved the money to a different bank at that point. But I'd had a good chat with DD about the savings account being left alone, and she understood that. And for 2 years it stayed untouched. I realise now that was too trusting of me.

I'm now reliant on my eldest DD being able to identify if/when ex is drinking/not coping. And this thing with the money has really eroded my trust in DD being safe to do that - her loyalty to her mum become more apparent recently and there have been a few occasions come to light of her 'covering' for her mum.

Re: Relying on your eldest daughter to keep an eye on her mum’s drinking and reporting back to you.

She shouldn’t be used for this really.

I don’t know what the answer is but she cannot police her mother.

She also loves her.

I think she may be mentally harmed if this dynamic of a triangle between you, her, and her mother continues.

Could you take her to see a counsellor for families of alcoholics by any chance?

OP - Your eldest DD is a child. A child. I understand that you are protective of your two youngest children, but you really need to protect her too. It is not her job to monitor her own mother.

You were not "too trusting" of your eldest DD. You weren't sufficiently protective. It sounds like you feel betrayed by your DD, because instead of recognising that she's a child being manipulated by an alcoholic, you see her as siding with your ex. You are now painting her to be the villain. This is deeply unfair and it will prove deeply harmful.

You need to put your dd first and stop viewing her as a mini-adult.

She's 13 FFS. No 13 year old is savvy with money- you are Ailey at fault for giving it to her. She's been manipulated by her mother, made to feel disappointed in by you. The poor bloody kid. And to then accuse her- even if just online of therefore being 'like' her mum- that's just vile of you.

I'm bitterly disappointed with DD for giving all her savings away (but more for not telling me what was going on, and covering her tracks). I thought she was old enough and mature enough to have some financial responsibility (she is generally very level headed and well behaved). But absolutely kicking myself for letting it happen, knowing how manipulative my ex can be. And now concerned DD is turning into her own mother. @cool4cats2020

You need to get your head straight on this. She's still a child. The fault on the lost savings lie with you and none of the rest is her fault. You know how manipulative her mother is, of course she's not going to be able to resist her mother's pleas at 13. DD is acting the opposite of her mother who just takes, she's giving, she is NOT her mother, you need to remember that and hold onto that until you believe it.

She is, giving in to the manipulation, she is doing what you do. Your reasons are understandably but so are your DDs. Blaming DD, expecting her to keep an eye on her mother's behaviour, to tell you everything that's going on with her mother manipulating her into secrets, expecting her to stand up to her, none of those are reasonable expectations of a 13 year old. Even once your DD is a young adult it's likely she'll still need help to stand up to her mother. She's grown up with a manipulative addict, she feels guilty, you need to support her through this, not blame her for behaving like a worried, manipulated child.

You are putting an appalling level of responsibility, pressure and blame onto a 13 year old child, what on earth is wrong with you?

Your daughter has done nothing wrong. All you can do is learn from your decision to allow a 13 year old access to their savings. Most parents wouldn’t even allow their adult university students that access because the temptation to fritter it away is too great at that level of maturity. Your daughter is still a child, and the way she spent the money was, while naive, the most generous act she could do. I would be horrified at the loss of money but secretly quite proud of my daughters caring nature, if she was my child.

Only thing you can do is chalk this one up to experience. The money in all your children’s savings accounts should be redistributed so that all your children have equal levels of savings again (you don’t need to tell your daughter this, but that way she won’t be punished as an adult for a decision she made as a child with the best of intentions while struggling emotionally with the impact of her mum’s spiralling out of control). No longer give any of your children access to their savings. And support your daughter without judgement so that she knows she can go to you emotionally when she’s feeling bad about her mum. She must pick up on the way you feel about her mother and your reaction to her savings account transfer will only have reinforced her belief that she can’t discuss these things with you. She is not her mother, she is just a child that cares deeply about her mother, like all children do, and you need to treat her as such.

Look into family counselling- living with an alcoholic cannot have been easy for them and there will likely be issues all your children need to work through.

Your children are allowed to love both their parents and should never, ever be put in a position of being made to feel like they have to side with one parent over the other.

Your issues with your ex are your issues. It doesn’t matter if you are right about her. What matters is that you don’t hurt your children by dumping your issues on them and involving them in your contempt for their mum.

And no responsible, caring parent would ever blame their 13 year old for not managing that amount of money properly.

Don’t blame the bank either. It was totally and completely your fault.

Instead of focusing on your ex’s failings, have a good, hard, honest look at your own.

So I'd be going against the court order to prevent the agreed contact. And when the kids arrive on her doorstep looking forward to seeing her, and she then says she needs money to feed them, what else can I do but sub her?

You can tell her in advance that if she wants to have the kids overnight, she needs to be able to care for them properly, including having food in the house. If you show up and she tells her sob story, you say to her "I'm afraid I've already lent you a substantial amount of money for food that you haven't repaid and I can't afford to lend you any more. If you can't afford to feed the children during your contact time with them, we may need to review the contact arrangement." Then you say to the kids, "I'm sorry but Mum can't have you overnight after all as she doesn't have any food in today. I'll come and pick you up at dinner time. As soon as she's got food in, you can stay overnight again."

I'm now reliant on my eldest DD being able to identify if/when ex is drinking/not coping. And this thing with the money has really eroded my trust in DD being safe to do that - her loyalty to her mum become more apparent recently and there have been a few occasions come to light of her 'covering' for her mum.

No no fucking no. You do not rely on a 13 year old to take responsibility for something like this. You are the parent and she is the child. She relies on you to come up with a better solution to your ex's inability to parent properly than having your daughter police her behaviour.

Frankly, you already know your ex is a problem drinker and that she can't afford to feed her own children, and in addition has stolen thousands of dollars from her own daughter through manipulation. Go back to court to change the custody (and frankly, I'd be telling her you'll go to the police if she doesn't start paying back her child's money pronto).

Pretty much the only time people with a long-term untreated mental condition or an addiction become motivated to seek professional help to deal with their issues is when they are confronted with extremely unpleasant consequences for their behaviour.

So doing the best thing for your children is also likely to be the best thing for their mother, even though none of them may initially see it that way. But you have to be playing a longer game than they are.

You do not rely on your 13yo to report on her mother. If you have concerns about the mother’s behavior, you go to court and ask for oversight to be out in place. If social services removed the children because of her behavior and you think she is engaging in that behavior again, then ask for things like drug and alcohol testing timed to visitation.

If you are worried about the kids being fed, delivery groceries, not money.

Please don't blame your DD - she has probably been guilt-tripped into giving the money. Or sees her mum struggling and in her young mind doesn't fully understand why she has no money and simply wants to help her Mum that she loves regardless of her problems. You also have to take some responsibility for allowing the 13-year-old to have access to the savings in the first place.

You need to sit your dd down and explain why her Mum has no money, but it will be a difficult conversation.

You are expecting far too much of your 13 year old .

There's no way I'd let my 13 year old have free access to an account with thousands in it. They are 13! Pocket money savings yes. Large amounts go into a parent controlled account they can have access to when older - plenty of these about from junior isas etc for that exact purpose.

@MrsMoastyToasty

I think that you need to tell the ex that unless your DD gets her money back from her you'll report her to the police for financial abuse and potentially fraud. Your ex chooses to be an alcoholic Your ex chooses not to work.

She can choose to fund her own lifestyle.

Nobody chooses to be an alcoholic.

@ImustLearn2Cook

Your children are allowed to love both their parents and should never, ever be put in a position of being made to feel like they have to side with one parent over the other.

Your issues with your ex are your issues. It doesn’t matter if you are right about her. What matters is that you don’t hurt your children by dumping your issues on them and involving them in your contempt for their mum.

And no responsible, caring parent would ever blame their 13 year old for not managing that amount of money properly.

Don’t blame the bank either. It was totally and completely your fault.

Instead of focusing on your ex’s failings, have a good, hard, honest look at your own.

Daughter of alcoholic here.

Completely disagree with this post.

Alcoholism really is a family disease. Alcoholics are also incredibly manipulative.

Op, the money is gone. You need to stop giving your ex money. I'd also get SS involved again and tell them about your ex change in circumstances (split from partner) lack of food and manipulation of daughters savings.

Also, get family therapy. Your kids need to be given a safe space to talk and tools to set their own boundaries.

Slightly off topic but the bank said it wasn't possible for any parental supervision on their childrens accounts we had a HSBC account in our child's name from birth but we had complete control of it. We actually assumed it would just become available to our child at 18 but it didn't happen. The bank said it wasn't set up with that purpose, it was a child's savings account that the parents fully controlled.

The clearing out of the savings account could happen again, you need one with parental control.

But I also agree with others about contacting social services about her lack of money, being unable to provide food for the children and that she is back on her own. She needs help.

And now concerned DD is turning into her own mother

Don’t be . I understand your upset and concerns
But the love children have for their parents is a strong and complex bond
She probably worries about her non stop

Lesson learned , no acess to money period

I’d also consider therapy for your DD

I also have to spend money to enable the relationship between my kids and my ex
We do it because we love our kids

I’m sorry abiut the money , shit really happens

You're getting a hard time by some posters op, however I think you sound kind and caring towards your ex (giving her money to facilitate contact) and your dd. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, maybe going forward you should keep control if all the dd's money. Your dd will learn a valuable lesson.

Have you considered councilling for your dd? She's obviously been through a lot and seen more than she should have done, she maybe needs to understand how she's feeling and why she did what she did.

As PP have said, stop blaming your daughter and get her some therapy to help with what is clearly a very difficult situation with her mother. Her wellbeing should be your absolute priority, not the money.

Instead of focusing on your ex’s failings, have a good, hard, honest look at your own

Harsh . Op is doing their best to provide to support and to enable contact with an very challenging ex

They made a mistake
Who doesn’t ?

Your DD is being harmed by the responsibility you are placing on her. She isn’t safe or suitable to assess risk on behalf of her siblings, that is your job. She isn’t suitable to take care of thousands of pounds and protect that money from an unstable parent - that is your job.

You’ve delegated too much to her and harmed her. What are you going to do about it other than blame her?

I felt responsible for way too much as a child. Please don't keep putting that on your DD, she is still very much a child and it will harm her. She needs to know she can talk to you about anything, especially her mother's manipulations and guilt trips and her worries for her mum. She needs to know it's not her job to keep an eye on her mum, to try and control her mother's behaviour. All you're doing there is pushing her deeper into her mother's problems, making her feel like she's responsible for her mum, that's the last thing you want her to feel.

A kid learning financial responsibility is them making their pocket money last, or getting a little job so they earn a bit of their own money. It is not giving them access to an account with thousands of pounds.

Your DD sounds like a lovely caring young woman who is just worried about her mum. Please don't turn that into a negative ad that's totally unfair.

What everybody else has said about your DD, and how unfair it is to expect her to have a mature adult level of insight and responsibility when she's still a child.

I don't envy the position you are in, it bites. But putting it on the shoulders of your 13yo is not the way. I would encourage her to go to Alateen, the group for teenagers who have an alcoholic family member, and I would also arrange some family therapy for you together. You need a different way forward.