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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What is the grass is no greener?

36 replies

Userthatname · 02/04/2022 08:10

My husband was diagnosed with neurodivergence 12 months ago. He is high functioning so I guess what used to be known as Aspergers.

He is very honest, steady, practically reliable most of the time, very loyal until one of his special interests consume him and then he would drop us like a hot potato, does an equal share of the domestic work, works hard, I know he would never cheat on me.
BUT
At 35 years old, I'm questioning whether I actually want a future with him. Practically, he's hands on at home and mostly with the children, but mentally and emotionally, I find things very difficult. Everything is a calculation with him, love doesn't flow naturally. Even the most joyful news from myself or the children is met with a blank expression. He's not too interested in sex, he's very insular and spends a lot of time on his own watching netflix or doing his special interests. I have to remind him if we've barely spent any time together which makes me feel taken for granted as he clearly doesn't particularly need me.

If we go out with friends, he will spend his time taking the piss out of me as it's the only way he really knows how to be funny. I have stopped going out with him and friends at the same time. He'll drink too much because he's quite shy and struggles to fit in. Everything is about being socially acceptable and right for him, so he hardly says anything unless he's drinking and then all jokes are about me. I find it stressful and demeaning. He always apologises and says he'll stop doing it but does it again. I'm quite controversial in my conversation and I find it funny to be so, he finds it difficult as in his mind, I'm not following the socially acceptable rules so he'll pull me up. If he doesn't like what I'm talking about, he'll tell me so infront of people. This could of course be entirely unrelated to his diagnosis.

I have to state the obvious a lot and if I dare to be too ill to care for the children (for example) and he has something hobby related planned, he'll not speak to me for days if he hasn't been able to go. I realise that this may be personality related as opposed to autism related. I even have to prove why I'm tired sometimes if it doesn't match up with what he wants to do. He'll get easily side tracked by other things when the children are tired and need to go to bed, I have to manage his time a lot which is exhausting. I think he also has a bit of ADHD.

He's not great at picking up emotional cues from myself or the children. He can be very neglectful from that point of view. Even when going through the death of my father, he made sure he still had time to go and do his hobby. He'll say things like "well it's not like I can DO anything." He doesn't get that sometimes, we just need him to be there for us. He left me throwing up with a horrible sickness bug, raging water infection and a badly pulled stomach muscle at 8 months pregnant, whilst caring for a 3 year old (who was in bed asleep) because he couldn't DO anything.

I find it anxiety inducing sometimes how he can be helpful one minute and then completely neglectful the next. When the children were babies, he was hands on until something better came along and then it would all be left to me. The inconsistent 'help" I was getting really messed with my mental health. And it's left questions around whether or not I can trust him.

We've had relationship counselling and it became apparent that he needed to work on some of his behaviours. He is more self aware now, but when he's being more considerate, he's obviously following 'rules' set by the counsellor and not really doing it because he wants to.

I often feel quite lonely and uncared for. I have built up my own hobbies since our second child became less needy, I see friends, but it still hasn't filled the vacuums that are left by my marriage to my husband. In the past, he used to say that it wasn't his problem that my parents had moved abroad and couldn't help me more. He seems to have the view that parents are there to pick up any slack, even as adults. When they do visit, he'll go off and do his hobbies rather than spend time with them as he thinks he's relieved from doing any family duties. He's a user.

His parents, I suspect, are also neurodivergent and I've had to put up with a lot from them also. I've had to erect a lot of boundaries much to my husband's bafflement and disappointment at times.

I often feel very disappointed myself, that this is marriage life. It feels a bit joyless and loveless. He's very serious and it's hard to be playful or flirtatious, difficult to joke around with him. He tried much more before we married and had our children but he's become extremely complacent and by his own admittance, takes me for granted at times. He doesn't really laugh much. Even on holidays, he is quite cold and clinical. I think he harbours resentment when he is having to focus solely on our family unit and can't pursue his independent interests, but he would argue that this isn't the case.

I didn't have a stable home life as a child, which is what makes this decision so difficult as despite all of this, I have stability for myself and our children which means an awful lot to me. I know my standards for a relationship are possibly lower because of this.

The children are 4 and 8.

He's been trying much harder since we had relationship counselling, but it feels very forced. I know he's following the 'rules' suggested by the counsellor, as opposed to doing things out of love, or thought himself. When asked why we wanted to stay together, the first reason he gave was "it would be better for us financially." Before anything else. This has played on my mind since.

I know that, if we separate and divorce and then I meet someone else who cheats, or life is really difficult as a single mum, I may well regret leaving him. I also worry about his ability to "care" for the children properly as he doesn't pick up on illness or hazards easily. One example is when I asked him to check the fire alarms one year and he said "there's no point, they have no batteries in them."
I asked why and he said "well, they were beeping and irritating me."
Stuff like this.

I also know that if I met someone else whilst with my husband, who was more caring and loving, I'm not sure that I would avoid having an affair in all honesty.

Do other people ever feel like this?

Is the grass likely to be greener if I leave him?

OP posts:
Dacquoise · 02/04/2022 08:37

Your marriage sounds exhausting and frustrating tbh. Do you want to continue like this because another relationship may be worse? There are no guarantees about anything in life. However the relief from being out of this situation could be life changing for you, partner or no partner.

Besttobe8001 · 02/04/2022 08:39

This sounds awful. Honestly is being single that bad? I personally love being single and living on my own.

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 02/04/2022 08:50

If the only thing stopping you from leaving is the worry that things could get worse, then you need to recognise you are staying for the wrong reasons. In a way you are using him too.

I get the worry about him looking after the children alone if you split but he is their father and you can’t protect them from him forever. He may well step up if he has a structured and predictable routine with them.

GeneLovesJezebel · 02/04/2022 08:52

I haven’t read your whole post, sorry, but it just sounds exhausting and hard work.
Is that what you want forever ?

Fireflygal · 02/04/2022 09:01

What prompted the diagnosis?

Userthatname · 02/04/2022 09:04

It was the relationship counselling @fireflygal she was the second counsellor to suggest that he was neurodivergent so he sought a diagnosis as although he didn't need the "label" she believed it would help build our understanding of our relationship needs.

OP posts:
loveislouderthanwar · 02/04/2022 09:14

I had a friend who had a very similar marriage to you. She would complain about the same things as you and they were completely valid, as are yours.

She eventually left him and now she's with someone else and they have a child. She is very happy now as it's not just her constantly giving everything to the relationship.

I think you need to be happy-you deserve that. You are basically a single parent anyhow.

Fireflygal · 02/04/2022 11:46

Does he display empathy? He really doesn't seem like a nice man. He can be ASD and unpleasant (possibly emotionally abusive) and that can have a major impact on you emotionally and physically, especially over the long term.

Do you call him out publicly when he makes you the butt of jokes? Would be interested in how he reacts and if his external image is important to him.

At 35 you have a lifetime to live however leaving because you think you will find another wonderful man is wrong. Decent men aren't readily available, your H might appear positive but you know the reality of living with him. You could get lucky (and often feels like luck) but don't rely on this.

I suggest you spend time firming up your decision.. leaving him should be completely separate from assuming you will meet a better man. Start a journal to record how often you are unhappy, list examples, see if strategies improve the situation, read books "should I stay or should I go". The decision will become clear over time. Going through this process will also help you identify areas where you need to strengthen your boundaries.

It's likely from your description of childhood that you have inner work to do. If you do this and decide to leave you will then be in a better place to meet someone more likely to be emotionally healthy.

That's the best outcome but just don't rely on meeting someone to make you happy. Happiness really is an inside job.

I thought my exh issues related to ASD, he self diagnosed using credible resources however he was also highly manipulative, selfish and lacked genuine empathy. He has covert NPD and this can be co morbid with ASD. He was also capable, intelligent, and shared household chores so I get why it's hard to throw away a marriage but ime, you are early stages and need to reflect and work through...if you do then the answer is clear AND you will be prepared to be single.

GodspeedJune · 02/04/2022 11:58

It sounds absolutely draining and like you don’t get anything in return. Honestly your life would probably be a lot easier without him in it, and potentially a whole lot better with a kinder partner.

Userthatname · 02/04/2022 12:24

"suggest you spend time firming up your decision.. leaving him should be completely separate from assuming you will meet a better man. Start a journal to record how often you are unhappy, list examples, see if strategies improve the situation, read books "should I stay or should I go". The decision will become clear over time. Going through this process will also help you identify areas where you need to strengthen your boundaries."

I've done all of the above @fireflygal and exhausted myself in the process. I've done so much reading, its dominated my life for 4 years. I thought I'd have better clarity if I picked up some hobbies for myself and went out more but it did the opposite as I was able to map out "some" happiness for myself despite the relationship which makes it in some ways, easier to stay. I thought I'd have made it easier to decide when DC2 started reception but that hasn't happened either! I don't understand why I can't seem to make this decision easily other than my want of stability and security. I've had lots of counselling for it over the years. I just feel more stable (despite DH) than any other time n my life. I don't think counselling can really change that perception.

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 02/04/2022 13:16

If you have done the work you know it's because you are valuing stability - that's a choice.

Most people leaving a marriage lose "something", finances, time with children, having to work longer, practical help etc. Stability/Finances is a major reason why women stay with men.

It takes willingness to face losses and risks and decide on balance it's worth leaving. You are either not at that point (and might never be) or you are waiting for a escape partner so you might be able to have the marriage (stability) and loving partner (affair).

Perhaps change your mindset.. I'm not getting fulfilled by by partner but I make a positive choice to stay. Maybe that might never change but do it knowing it's your life and as an adult you are making the choice.

I'm not sure there are other options and only you can weigh but the decision. Another man isn't going to be the answer though

Userthatname · 02/04/2022 13:20

Yes I agree that another man isn't the answer, I yearn for a loving relationship but know it may never happen. Are you glad that you left?
"Perhaps change your mindset.. I'm not getting fulfilled by by partner but I make a positive choice to stay. Maybe that might never change but do it knowing it's your life and as an adult you are making the choice."
This here is really thought-provoking @fireflygal thank you.

OP posts:
Darklightening · 02/04/2022 13:52

I’m in a similar boat but DH is undiagnosed and wouldn’t even consider a diagnosis. Two of our children are diagnosed with autism and adhd so I strongly one or both conditions. DH can be difficult to live with in that he avoids doing stuff he doesn’t want to - helping shower/brush hair/brush teeth of our children/ ehcp paperwork. Then I’m made to feel like I’m nagging. But I can’t bear to split the family up. We couldn’t afford two houses at all locally and my kids are all at different schools and eldest is about to start his gcse year. But I’m miserable. I’m sick of not being listening to, or being listened to and ignored and made to feel like I’m a nag that he doesn’t take note or care about what is important to me. His attitude I feel is compounded by his upbringing - a mother who did everything for him and let him do whatever he wanted - which would now to me be a massive red flag.

How are your finances? That’s my biggest worry.

Fireflygal · 02/04/2022 14:04

@Userthatname, do I regret it? I don't feel I had a choice. I regret having to leave. I miss the practical and good relationship bits - my siblings have lovely marriages so I know what good should look like. However I am happy, being single through choice as no man yet has made me want to give up what I have now.

I have knowledge, that's I didn't have pre marriage and that makes me much more discerning and I can spot red flags, lack of empathy and selfish behaviour even when it's dressed up with love bombing or charm. It does mean many relationships now don't get too far as I choose healthier relationships. That's quite empowering as I know it's my choice.

I also think my children benefit, quite important if girls as they will have healthier role models.

Userthatname · 02/04/2022 14:06

Sorry you're in this boat too @Darklightening

I've already seen a solicitor etc for advice and financially I should be able to manage. We would have to sell the family home and set up separately in smaller houses. I've also spoken to many single mum friends thoroughly about finances and it seems I should be ok. I work part-time but I earn a pretty good salary for my hours. I could work more if I need to also.

Don't dismiss the idea based on finances. Definitely do a bit of research before making decisions based on that.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 02/04/2022 14:42

The loneliest place is an empty marriage. If you are single mother people know you are "on your own" and many offer a different sort of friendship/emotional support.

Do you want your DC replicating this sort of relationship?

I'm sure I recognise that you have posted previously. It's not going to improve is it? He will fill more and more time with his hobbies as he has no interest in spending time with you.

Thanks
GroovyGroovy · 02/04/2022 14:58

Agree with alot of what Firefly says. Is the grass greener? Well, you won't know unless you walk over the hill, thats the reality.

What is better or worse even? I'm not sure framing it that way is totally helpful. With any major chance in circumstances all you can say is that it will be different . I think you are right not to assume you will meet a lovely man (the happy ending is always offered on MN as the outcome of leaving a bad relationship for some reason gah!).

On the plus side of changing things 1. It is difficult to start new things and a new way of living if you stay in your old circumstances and way of life 2. You will grow through new experiences.

On the other side - it may be difficult, life may actually be more difficult, you may have some horrible experiences (dating, financial, etc etc). By comparision same and known is safe and cocooned and of course can be nice - but not if you are unhappy - then it can be a very different place.

GroovyGroovy · 02/04/2022 14:59

change in circumstances

GroovyGroovy · 02/04/2022 15:00

but I would not underestimate how repressive living in a domestically unhappy situation is (I suspect many people do not realise until after they've left, and it can even take some time after that)

Userthatname · 12/04/2022 08:32

Thanks everyone.
It seems to be the consensus that you just don't know until you do it. I keep thinking about when will be best for the children. There always seems to be a reason not to leave yet- the youngest currently has really challenging behaviour and will only let DH do anything for her. She is all Daddy. So it feels like the wrong time because she'll be devastated, but also, I don't want to keep putting it off and wasting my life on him.

OP posts:
Candleabra · 12/04/2022 08:45

Your youngest may be displaying challenging behaviour because of the way your husband is. Clinging to daddy because she senses something is wrong.

What’s best for the children might not be what’s makes them happy right here, right now.
Think of the behaviour they’re growing up with. They have no outside perspective now so to them, it’s normal. Would you want your kids to be in a relationship like this as an adult?

almond123 · 12/04/2022 17:38

Ive got a myriad of stories...

Im a 38 year old single mother of one, divorced for 3 years, husband walked out for another woman after an (at least emotional) affair.

If you chose to go, DONT think youll meet someone else easily. Of course, that happens for a lot of women. Quickly and rasily. And theyre amazingly happy. Ive been dating for 2 years (and, yeah, covid) and there is virtually no one out there I even want to go on a date with (or, I guess, wants to go on a datw with me). Online dating is generally a time sucking freak show which, whilst it might work in the end, can take a loooong time.

I have to be honest and say that being a single mother, I find relatively ok. Yes yoi have to do everything and it can be tiring sometimes. But that's generally kids. And if your husband is a drain, emotionally or practically as mine was, its actually a lot easier to parent without one.

What I do find hard, though is being single. Just single. The loneliness (despite my daughter, my mum being around, having lovely friends). Just having someone who loves and supports me. Right now, Im really really struggling hard with that at the moment. Majorly.

But then again, I met a lovely guy last year. Same goals in life. Genuinely caring etc. But not demonstrative. Physically, compliments, acts of service, anything. I think hes autistic, or aspergers, or on that spectrum. One night after we'd had (good) s*x, I lay there next to him and cried because I felt so alone. I knew then that I couldnt do it. And that the heartbreak of feeling alone WITH someone, is even more chilling than feeling ans BEING alone without someone.

Sorry I cant give any actual advice. If only all our lives were simple xxx

Userthatname · 12/04/2022 20:44

I think you're probably right @almond123. Being with someone but being lonely probably is lonelier than being single.

I've told him today that I may live with him for now, but that I'm not "with him" anymore.

OP posts:
HaggisBurger · 12/04/2022 21:05

How did he react @Userthatname? Did he react?

I recognise some similarities in your story and mine though I my stbxh was never diagnosed and also in fairness was less rigid in his behaviour than your description. But definite overlaps. I posted about two years ago quite similarly to you kind of a list of the good and the bad and was so exhausted by trying to make up my mind. (I’ll try and find the thread).

I totally empathise with that! I’m now 14 months post separation and I did actually meet someone quite quickly and easily about 8 months ago (much sooner than I thought perhaps too soon). In many ways my current relationship is SO much better - lots of sex and shared interests and we laugh so much more.

BUT there are certain things he does (he can be a bit literal for example and isn’t verbally demonstrative - and the minute I get a glimmer of these I’m scared that I am repeating past mistakes. A therapist warned me that we often seek what is familiar even if it feels different to begin with.

Bit of a derail but your post resonated with me. To let you know when a finally decided to end the marriage the relief was indescribable. It’s been v painful at times since but way less painful than the endless indecision. It just blocked for me that I couldn’t go on. I wish I’d decided earlier but you can’t really force these things.

I found reading Glennon Doyle ‘Untamed” helpful. Women often feel they need “permission” to choose something more.

Userthatname · 02/05/2022 07:33

I've told him it's over.
I then sent him an email outling all the reasons, explaining what needs to happen now etc.
He's completely ignoring it.
I got his parents to take care of the children so I could speak to him about how to move forward with the separation and he literally stared blankly, said "ok" a few times then changed the subject. I kept bringing it back but he kept doing the same over and over again.
I'm exhausted and he's plodding on as if all is fine.
What now?

OP posts: