The lies they tell about their ex....

[Triffid1]

Maybe it's just me but after years on MN and watching a few real life friends go through tough break ups, I'm now 100% in the "don't believe a word he says about his ex" camp. Which of course is ridiculous - women aren't universally perfect and rational in relationships but.... well, it seems to me that a LOT of the time he's just talking absolute rubbish!

A few of my favourites:

"His ex won't let him see the children" [amazing how seldom the man attempts to take this further via court/mediation etc]

"She just wants more maintenance from him/she'll spend all the money on herself while he then has to pay for everything for the children" - a bit of digging usually finds that he spotted her getting her hair done or going to the pub and is now outraged that the £150 he gives her is being wasted on fripperies.....

"She was controlling". I love this one. 9/10 she just objected to him going out on the piss every weekend while she was at home with 2 toddlers!

"She's trying to take me to the cleaners - I worked hard for that money!". DH has had a few conversations with male friends who spout this in all male environments... DH is less than sympathetic.

Any others you've all seen and heard to share?

I absolutely know my ex is spinning a narrative (that he did when we were together too) about me to his new girlfriend. How I'm unstable, how I'm difficult and mental, how I'm controlling, manipulative, abusive, nothing he ever did was good enough.

How do I know? Because he told me the same things about his ex before me. She wasn't unstable but she was difficult, a bad mum, didn't "understand him like I do" and neglectful. He also spun the woman he cheated on me with with the same droll story.

On the flipside, I say very little about my ex - I may remark that he's abusive eventually, but I get people to make their own opinions.

Why should anyone spend £10,000s to see their own children?

Why would anyone not even try?

Especially as the vast majority of the time it costs nowhere near that and you can represent yourself.

There are some women who use their kids as pawns. But there are many, many men who bullshit about not being allowed as it makes it socially acceptable for them to abandon their kids.

And in a good number of cases it’s a sob story that helps them get their dicks wet with the next unlucky woman who falls for their bullshit.

[quote Triffid1]@JustLyra Oh yes, I love this. A friend genuinely was worried - her ex was always accusing her of being a mad mum, controlling etc. She was the main breadwinner and he had briefly gone part time so have their DC. When they split, he was STILL part time but she was the one doing 90% of the childcare.

She was terrified he was going Pull this and try to get custody. On her cynical days, because she thought he’d want her to pay maintenance and on her less cynical days because she genuinely believed he loved his DC…. The rest of us knew he wouldn’t. And sure enough, never has. (Pretty sure he tells friends/family/colleagues that she keeps him away from their DC though. When in reality she’s constantly begging him to have them because a) they miss him and b) she is on her knees….)[/quote]
It’s amazing how many of them pull that one.

A former friend of DH’s used to go on all the time about his “mad, poisonous” ex and how bad she was.

Then when asked if he was going for more time with the kids or residency said he couldn’t because he didn’t work school hours and played badminton twice a week. DH has never heard from him since I said “she can’t be that bad then if you can still prioritise badminton”.

That they had MH issues.

My thought: not bloody surprised, living with you.

@JustLyra

Why should anyone spend £10,000s to see their own children?

Why would anyone not even try?

Especially as the vast majority of the time it costs nowhere near that and you can represent yourself.

There are some women who use their kids as pawns. But there are many, many men who bullshit about not being allowed as it makes it socially acceptable for them to abandon their kids.

And in a good number of cases it’s a sob story that helps them get their dicks wet with the next unlucky woman who falls for their bullshit.

No man should pay via the court system to access a relationship with children. One day you are in the house with unlimited access, the next it's a battle with the legal system. I was sent a letter about access to finances within the week, access to children letter shortly after. It's one blow after another.

Not wanting to is a different matter. I can remember an acquaintance bemoaning his poor relationship with his son. I advised him to adjust his life and drop some of the extracurricular activities. To be fair to him, he did and now has a much more meaningful relationship.

What you have to remember is the ex will share the dialogue with his new partner, if it's combative and malicious, that's all the proof the new partner needs. It's not a sob story, it's real. We're lucky my ex isn't too bad. There's no animosity.
I personally didn't start dating properly till the divorce was done and dusted. The divorce shouldn't be a point of bonding between new partners.

@AlternativePerspective

Thing is it’s not always that black and white.

Of course some of it is lies, the ones wining about the amount of maintenance they have to pay annoys me in particular, however I think that a lot more women attempt to withhold access than people like to admit on here.

And the truth is that while a man can go to court and be granted access, very little is actually done if she breaches the court order. The men who don’t even try ring alarm bells for me, but I think we need to be careful not to think that a woman always has a valid reason for not allowing access.

I have a friend whose dh’s ex withheld contact. he went to court time and time and time again over a period of about 5 years, and time and time and time again she breached the order. Or rang to demand the kids come home, and when he dropped them back they would be ringing him within an hour to say they’d been left with their grandparents while she went out.

Things only started to change when the kids grew older and voted with their feet. They had all gone NC with their mother by the time they were teenagers, but before that she had ultimate control, and used it.

I also think we should be careful to not believe someone that their partner was abusive. it’s not just men who can abuse. And again, if a woman comes on here and says her ex was abusive we blindly accept that, but if a man comes here and says it then people question it. Either we believe in abusive relationships or we don’t.

Absolutely agree with this! We went to court several times for access- first to get access (dh's children) and again when she breached the order! Got us nowhere but she still claims he is a shit father and i wont allow him see his children! I paid the court fees!! She since then had another child we a new partner. They broke up a couple of years ago and he hasn't seen his child since. Unfortunately he couldn't afford the court costs so will probably never see his dd again. Very sad on all the kids but everyone else is the arsehole not her 🤷‍♀️

@needagoodnightsleep1Your DH is NOT the person I started this thread about. You're totally right, there are women who genuinely make it hard.

My thread is about the many many many men who tell complete lies or out-of-context shit to their new partners. And how often actually, those can be spotted if people knew what to look for. And the "my ex won't let me see the children" one is a classic - a man for whom this is genuinely true can be spotted a mile away. This man is likely to be regularly and consistently upset about it, will make some effort or will continue to send birthday cards/presents, will attempt mediation or court to make it work etc etc etc. And then there's the men I'm talking about who will complain and yet DO nothing. And sadly, experience tells me there are fare more of THOSE men than the former.

I also know loads of men who absolutely have continued to be great fathers after they split. Sometimes that's been a process as they navigate the terrible relationship with their exes etc, but again, those aren't the ones I'm talking about on this thread.

@SamphiretheStickerist

We have friends, male and female, that work both sides of that argument hard.

All the usual crap, all vitriol, spite and stupidity.

I have never understood why they work so hard to upset themselves.

This is my experience. Along with the people who don’t. Are happy and forward looking.

I’ll say again what you read on Social Media and that includes MN is not real life. It’s not even vaguely real most of the time. Don’t let it form your opinions.

It's hard not to be amazed, isn't it @LemonTT?

You see one set of friends who have no reason to like each other any more working through a divorce, putting he kids first, faking it until it becomes natural enough to be lived with. Each reaching out for support, neither begrudging support for the other. Making themselves a happier life.

Then you look at the couple who just can't let anything go, will do and say anything to 'get one over on the ex' no matter who it hurts, including themselves, sometimes only themselves.

I can only hope that, should my own marriage break down, I will be one of the former!

This is a sad thing to read to be honest.

So I'm assuming that if I talk to any prospective future partners and I do get asked about my ex and why we broke up if I tell the truth about the lieing, lack of respect, total disinterest in ds & dd, stealing from me and general sociopathic behaviour for years .... they assume I'm lieing or it was indeed the reverse .

@mrgoodatfixingrhings

This is a sad thing to read to be honest.

So I'm assuming that if I talk to any prospective future partners and I do get asked about my ex and why we broke up if I tell the truth about the lieing, lack of respect, total disinterest in ds & dd, stealing from me and general sociopathic behaviour for years .... they assume I'm lieing or it was indeed the reverse .

1. Are you a man?

1. Do you have custody of DS and DD

1. Have you got a list of things you've done to try to protect your children (from her complete lack of interest and sociopathetic behaviour)

Because if the answer is 1. Yes and 2. No, the answer to 3 needs to be "yes" otherwise yes, I will make assumptions about you.

@SamphiretheStickerist

It's hard not to be amazed, isn't it *@LemonTT*?

You see one set of friends who have no reason to like each other any more working through a divorce, putting he kids first, faking it until it becomes natural enough to be lived with. Each reaching out for support, neither begrudging support for the other. Making themselves a happier life.

Then you look at the couple who just can't let anything go, will do and say anything to 'get one over on the ex' no matter who it hurts, including themselves, sometimes only themselves.

I can only hope that, should my own marriage break down, I will be one of the former!

That is my experience. I am couple number 1, my DH and his ex are couple number 2. It's bloody exhausting.

I wasn't dating him, but a guy I used to work with used to go on all the time about how high his maintenance payments were, as though he was the only person who ever had to pay such a thing (typically when he was expected to put his hand in his pocket eg work drinks). He also used to comment a lot about how unbelievable it was that his ex had the luxury of a cleaner.

He was living with his parents (rent free), his mum did his washing. His ex was caring full time for a primary age child and toddler twins (and working).

@PakkaMakka I especially love that him having children means he can't pay his way at a drinks event.

@Triffid1

1. Yes

1. No as that's not possible, I have no help and my ex would not allow it

1. Yes and with all the proof to back this up

"I will make assumptions about you."

Which is the sad thing .... that everyone assumes the guy is the bad one , I've had this in the beginning of my breakup until they saw and witnessed what was actually going on then attitudes towards me changed thankfully.
School etc were like this but now are brilliant.

@CornishGem1975

Works both ways. I've known women who have been absolutely vile about their exes and spouted all kinds of damaging lies. It's not just exclusive to men.

Remember there are three sides to every story...

This. ..yes her side, his side and the truth! A couple of years ago at my grandaughters birthday party another women asked my ex why we were no longer together! "He's an extrovert I'm more of a reserved person it just didn't work" she said not noticing my girlfriend who was in earshot. Failed to mention the infidelity on her part and the subsequent irretrievable breakdown of the relationship. People manipulate the truth to suit their agenda irrespective of their gender. It's certainly not an exclusive male trait.

[quote mrgoodatfixingrhings]@Triffid1

1. Yes

1. No as that's not possible, I have no help and my ex would not allow it

1. Yes and with all the proof to back this up

"I will make assumptions about you."

Which is the sad thing .... that everyone assumes the guy is the bad one , I've had this in the beginning of my breakup until they saw and witnessed what was actually going on then attitudes towards me changed thankfully.
School etc were like this but now are brilliant.
[/quote]
Look, I'm sure you're a good person. But, if your ex is such a bad mother, surely you do whatever it takes to take the children from her? Having said that, if you have all kinds of things that you have genuinely done to attempt this, then no, I would not judge you.

My thread is all those men who we all see on here and in real life who tell their new partners that their ex won't let them see their children or who complain about her controlling behaviour. But it only takes 10 seconds of scratching below the service to see it's a load of bollocks.

It's Dh's friend who ranted and raved that HE had worked hard in all the BIG jobs and why should his ex get the house.... when she had given up a lucrative career to allow him to follow his dreams, first to another city, then to another country.... only for him to be FIRED because he was an unreliable drug addict.

It's an ex colleague of DH's who is refusing to pay maintenance for his child because he doesn't see why he should pay maintenance when his ex has money to get her hair done and go to the pub.

It's an NCT friend of mine who 100% buys her new boyfriend's bollocks that his ex has been milking him for years and that she just spends the maintenance money on alcohol.

It's the ex of a female friend who claimed his ex was the reason he was bankrupt... and who know, 15 years later, is claiming that the money she has saved should be split with him, even though the main reason they're splitting is because he contributed no more than a few hundred pounds a month to their bills and who ALSO did zero childcare, zero cooking, zero cleaning.

It's DS's best friend's dad who took his ex to court because she "wouldn't let" him take the DC on holiday (with his new girlfriend).... and who was laughed out of the court by the judge who suggested that if he wants to take the children on lovely holidays perhaps it would be good if he turned up for the EOW that he was supposed to do rather than stopping by for a few hours once every 6 weeks.

It's a woman I work with whose ex has put her through the ringer, threatened to take the DC from her etc etc, but who the school and her DC's parents don't even recognise because he's never done a single run, attended a single child's party, gone on a single play date etc.

A man who tells me his ex won't let his DC see him much but who is still there, doing the school run, trying to call them/see them, arranging things, paying for things etc, is NOT someone I make assumptions about.

I have a friend who's ex is actually crazy. I knew them both for a long time before they split and he is a lot kinder about her than she deserves! So when he says that they split because of her temper he means that she attacked him several times and left him in a right mess (always in public but then would claim he hit her first.....errr...).

So it isnt always bullshit.

@Triffid1
"Look, I'm sure you're a good person. But, if your ex is such a bad mother, surely you do whatever it takes to take the children from her? Having said that, if you have all kinds of things that you have genuinely done to attempt this, then no, I would not judge you"

It's never that simple to be honest, I grew up without my father in my life and although when I finally did meet him it proved to be a waste of time it showed me that I do not want my children to not have the choice to know their mother. Us separating has proved to be a good thing and it has actually made her begin to Change her ways, unfortunately I enabled her bad behaviour by just picking up more and more of the work or the mental load as it's described on here until I did literally everything, paid for everything and had zero life. I hadn't seen friends for a year and a half yet she was out every weekend all weekend with hers and eventually weeknights too.
Having specific times ( split equally during the week 3.5 days each) has meant I can now actually do nice things with them and take them places rather than be just working (at my job and then at home from the minute I opened my eyes till bedtime ).
With regards to help ... I have no family left to turn to, my mother passed away a few years ago and father (as noted ) isn't close or even wanting to help leaving me with little to no options.

When the time is right and they are in full time school things may change.
But until then ... keeping this arrangement may actually be helping her too !

I'm sorry you've had to witness such bad outcomes as those you describe :(

I give up. @PyongyangKipperbang I believe you. And your friend.

Perhaps unless you've actually experienced these men who tell complete (and obvious) lies, it's impossible to imagine. To be honest, that's probably true because I know that certainly in the case of my friend and her (now) ex, I just never once questioned his narrative about his ex until I started to see how prevalent it was and then spotted all the other red flags and now I'm looking at the lies he tells about her and I know that if you didn't know her, you'd 100% believe him.

Having specific times ( split equally during the week 3.5 days each) has meant I can now actually do nice things with them and take them places rather than be just working (at my job and then at home from the minute I opened my eyes till bedtime ).

This sentence right here is the key one for me and why I wouldn't put you in the group of men in my original post. I mean, I assume that anyone who knows you even a little will know that you have the kids 50% of the time so it's not like you're making up some lie about your ex to get out of being a father. Which the men in my OP, and in some of the examples others have provided, are doing.

very very different situations.

Yes indeed and thank you

It's just hard to get this across to anyone new who wouldn't know me as per your original post without having to give everything posted above to them and again assumes I'm in the bad group.

I guess the bad guys have tarnished reputations and make proving it wrong an uphill struggle

@Triffid1 while I believe both men and women have the potential to spin wonderfully creative tales about their ex's to curry sympathy, I do feel men rather have the monopoly here...

My experience is a good example..

''my ex is crazy,...'' the court papers cited how distressed he was by the danger I posed to DD & need to urgently remove her from my ''abusive care''.. yet he'd of his own free will walked off into the sunset for 6 months and refused to see her. Unfortunately for him, he had form for doing this regularly, albeit for short period, since the day she born.

''my ex is denying me access''... no again, reams of emails showed that I had repeated begged him to see DD. He had plans, a holiday, work etc.. occasionally he'd email out of the blue asking to pick her up in a hours time. I'd be at work and she in nursery. So I suppose yes I did deny contact, but really an hours notice?? During the court proceedings he refused any/all contact which might impinge on 1)his social life or 2)his ability to work... the judge actually laughed at him when he suggested I should reduce my hours at work to facilitate ''flexible contact'' for him.. so for example, he could turn up anytime within a 6 hour window depending on what his day was like... obviously his wife heard a different tale...

''she's broken the order again!!''... I had a distraught email from his Father one Christmas, followed by a very abusive one from his partner admonishing me for ''breaching'' the order yet again & ruining everyone's Christmas. What became apparent is that he had never showed the order to anyone and was basically making up the terms to suit whatever it was he wanted. I had adhered to the terms 100%.... he had agreed for DD to spend time with him during the time he knew well was for her to spend with me. His Father's attitude towards me changed from that day as his son refused to show him the order and it struck him that his son was in fact a liar. Let's not talk about the
the fact he has repeatedly not turned up for contact ( doesn't say he isn't going to come, just doesn't come) or comes hours earlier / later than was agreed.

''she didn't trust me, it ruined our marriage''... well difficult to trust a man blatantly having an affair and not making much effort to hide it ... of course I was crazy for ''imagining'' he was having an affair. I'm not sure why he admitted to the affair after he left us to be with this poor woman, but at least it gave me some comfort that I was not crazy!

His wife (with whom he was having an affair) of course has heard a well constructed tragedy in which he was the clear victim of a heinous, malicious, bitter, vindictive ''Lady Macbeth'' style woman (aka yours truly)... I don't blame her for believing him, it's difficult to see through the lies when she has never seen any evidence either way (for example the court papers).

What I found most poetic is that for years and years I offered more contact, even begged for his help at time. Every single time he refused. When DD got older, and notably recovered from the health issues she was born with (which required 24hr care for many years which I did single handedly while working full time), he magically decided he wanted 50/50... by which point DD wanted little to do with him. He'd not bothered with her for near 10 years... cue rinse repeat of the ''she's denying access'' despite his daughter repeatedly stating she didn't want to see him more and why. Nevertheless he applied to the courts, thankfully, the courts listened to her and told him no they wouldn't change the original order to move it to 50/50... they recommended he look to his own behavior and choices to understand why his daughter may not want to spend more time with him & consider making some changes. If he does, I'm happy for DD to spend as much time as she likes with her Dad. This was nearly 2 years ago, no change yet....

Sometimes it's just a convenient rhetoric used by men who simply don't want to put their children before themselves and rather enjoy the martyrdom these tall tales affords them.

Lots of examples there @Triffid1 but I'm interested to know how you know it's all bullshit as you are not the other person in any of the relationships? It's very easy to judge from the outside...

Some people would move heaven and earth to see their children but can't afford to go through courts etc. A person on nmw couldn't afford court fees etc. It's not fair to tar them all with the same brush.