Gaslighting/ covert narcissist (I think!)

[coastal123]

Hello, I'm new on here , just joined out of desperation and needing some support. I'm ashamed to say I've been with my husband 20 years and we have older teenagers now. Ashamed because I'm quite a headstrong opinionated person in many ways but I have been in this dysfunctional, toxic marriage and seem to put up with it and never make any steps to leave. It's particularly bad atm and for approx 2-3 years. It's never been great but up and down. He has got worse the last few years ( in his 40's). I've always supported his career and hobbies and flexed around him with my own work to raise our children. He's verbally abusive not physically but in some ways I wish I had some bruises or evidence. He makes me feel like I'm going crazy ( word salad and gaslighting tactics) although I've been documenting the last years abuse on my notes on my phone. I've also been watching you tube videos and realise... ahh that's what he's doing re gaslighting/ emotional abuse.
Does anyone have any advice in terms of me staying with him- at least until my children have gone to University? The most recent 'explosion' has come from me being more assertive and responding/ communicating that it's not ok to speak to me like that etc... but it then escalates and he turns really mean. Examples:
I'm just like his sister ( she's renowned for being dreadful)
It's embarassing (me)
Pathetic
Oversensitive/ offended by everything
You talk and talk and talk
You spend and spend and spend
Demeaning hand gestures
Mimics me
Says 'ask the kids that's what you do, ask your mother'
Shouts more if I cry or have a panic attack
He spends his life pandering to me apparently
The constant phrase is 'what are you doing??'- he means verbally answering or expressing something ( nothing physical that i'm doing)
He used to call me a retard 20 years ago. I warned him never to say that again ( which he doesn't) but I think the 'what are you doing' phrase is just an alternative. He also says I want to argue yet he always diffuses because he says what he wants and then walks off. He also can have an awful argument and sleep soundly really quickly. And I'm up crying or leave the house for a walk.

Very rarely apologises- rare time he has because he has no choice or it's insincere

He has threatened today to tell everyone that this thing I had to cancel ( because after our recent argument I'm emotionally weak) is because I downed a bottle of wine. ( untrue although I did drink but he drank too). He often blames me for any comment / disagreement on the fact I've had a drink.

So I obviously need to not drink- I'm actually a happy drinker with everyone else. But so he won't use it against me. I have to try and not cry because he will say to my boys I'm nuts. He uses triangulation too.
I'm wondering how I could record him because last nights torrid of abuse was really awful? ( he's not sorry). I realise I'm not perfect and moody sometimes but im really open about feelings etc and happy to self reflect.

We are in the middle of renovating a house so am unable to leave- plus my younger child would hate me for it. My older one does see how he is.

Really sorry for long post! Any advice gratefully received. Just connecting with others in a similar position I think will help me.

Also any counselling that is free and he controls the money

I would leave now. He is destroying you. Contact a good lawyer. Sorry I have no practical advice but there are some very wise women on this board who will be along shortly

Thankyou for reading my post though

Sounds like my husband (although I have three young children but my eldest is picking up on his behaviour and not wanting to spend time with him). So you have my sympathy

He doesn’t respect you. What do you say in response when he insults you like this?

By staying you are teaching your DS how to treat their future partners or at least their future dynamics.

This is deeply damaging for them right now as much as it has already damaged you enough to accept it.

Perhaps set up some recording devices and get more text messages as evidence. See a solicitor.

My heart goes out to you. I feel your pain. He is obviously a nasty little man, controlling and abusive. Sadly men like this expect women to be their punch bags for life. Personally if I was you I would be getting my ducks in a row to leave when you can. Keep taking notes as it helps.

Do you work and what is your housing situation? Keep your chin up. There are some knowledgeable folk on this forum who can advise far more eloquently than I.

For the mean time just to survive in the home I'd advise doing the 180 degrees and working towards life after this abusive bully. worthofmysoul.com/how-and-why-to-do-a-180/.

He's abusive and your mental health will decline further if you stay. You will lose the strength to even consider leaving. Please don't challenge or reflect back his behaviour it makes them worse - they know you're onto them. That's how it escalates. If you can, record conversations without him ever finding out do it. Not only is it evidence but you'll be horrified further down the line just how bad things were. Take care x

All I can add to this is that you should not use 'renovating the house' as an excuse not to leave.

People buy and sell houses all of the time. You are worth more than a few undecorated rooms.

I'm so sorry your situation is awful. I know exactly how you are feeling because I once was in your position. Life on the other side of this is bumpy I won't lie but it's been absolutely brilliant for me and my kids. My Mum said the other day that the split from the ex was the best thing that ever happened to the kids. Mum thinks the split saved my life as my ex was crushing me mentally. Yours sounds to me like he's in the discard phase so get your ducks in rows lovely.

"Does anyone have any advice in terms of me staying with him- at least until my children have gone to University?"

Please do not do this; all that does is give him further years in which to abuse you and in turn your kids who are also seeing this at first hand. It also further teaches the kids that your children that your relationship with them was based on a lie. Some of the most messed-up people come from families where the parents stayed together until they left home. Young children might not understand the concept of long-term deception, but adult children definitely do.

Feel your fear and leave him anyway. Do not use renovating a house as a further excuse to remain mired in this abusive relationship.

I could have written this post. Really sad to see I am not the only one. My DS is 17 and is acting just like dad. That's really how I started seeing the behaviour, when my DS started doing the same (but more crudely) when he was 12.

So here's what I did: contacted a divorce coach (Diana Jordan), she suggested he may have narcissistic tendencies - which I didn't believe - and recommended a therapist last year (specialised in Narcissim), I worked with the therapist with the aim of keeping us together (at least till my DS was at uni).

In the conversations about what was happening at home she helped me see:

1. it would be more damaging to stay to my DS, as he would just learn that it's okay to behave like that


2. work out a plan for what life would be like if I would separate, sort finances, and work through all the fears (which took me about 5 months)


3. what he is actually doing to me, once I saw that I somehow couldn't keep up the charade anymore. (I have been pretending for years I still love him, meanwhile building up a life on my own in the margins of supporting him and my son)


4. Read the book 'How to Divorce a Narcissist' by Diana Jordan, and her other book about how to divorce as well


5. Meanwhile worked on our relationship genuinely and was very open to him. He tried to improve and even started reading a book aimed at helping narcissist, but his behaviour showed it was all a hollow shell to pretend to me he was improving.

I then told him I wanted a divorce. He then convinced me not to tell DS and I didn't for 2 months. Turns out he has used those 2 months to become the perfect dad. We told our DS 3 weeks ago. He blames me, my husband plays the victim, all the insults about me have added up to a clear picture: I am lazy, don't want to earn my own income, have always been a bad mother and now of course am selfish for abandoning the 2 of them 'just to become happy'.

Sadly my DS barely speaks to me now, and has become the emotional support for my ex. I can see him become the new victim of my ex. It's always worked for me: he pretends to be nice, and be a victim, so I would rally around to support him and would forget my own needs.

Jointly they have decided I should leave the family home and my DS suggested I live a bit further away so he wouldn't be scared of bumping into me. (we did have a really good relationship only 3 weeks ago...)

So, do you stay? No idea. Can you handle him poisoning the kids against you? No idea. I thought my ex wouldn't want DS, as it would be too much work, but he is happily putting in the work just to use DS as a weapon. It's plain to see DS's attitude is hurting me.

My therapist promises me it will get better. My DS still has a bond with me (and he does and is much nicer when dad is away from home) and he will eventually learn from seeing his mum happy in her new life what was happening.

I can only hope.

What I can say is this: hold out for as long as you can, start preparing now, and start building a positive image of yourself in the mind of your children eg repeat how lovely it was that you did X together when they were 5, that sort of thing.

When my DS is demeaning or disrespectful I try not to get mad or argue. Instead I stop and tell him his comment is hurtful (showing how hurt I am on my face) and ask him why he believes that about me. That really works (as my DS does have empathy). Of course I can only do this when my ex isn't around.

Sending love

Perhaps if I would have known I might have been able to hold out

I don't think you will get advice on how to stay with your abuser. I think you need to plan on how you're going to leave - do you work? If not, can you get a job? See a solicitor, get paperwork together etc etc - there are women here who can give fab advice on this. Can you get counselling via your GP? Look up grey rock and how to detach yourself from him. Your children will feel some sort of harm whether you stay or whether you go, but you can help mitigate this and you cannot sacrifice yourself by saying you're staying for the kids. Speak to family and friends too. Emotionally, leaving is really hard, but staying is harder.

Get rooted in the fact that when he says there's something wrong with you, it's because he chooses to see it that way. Get rooted in the idea that his truth isn't the objective truth. Get rooted in the idea that his opinion of you and your opinion of you don't have to be the same. You don't have to convince him, and you don't have to convince you: there is simply nothing wrong with you.

From that starting point, things will look different. He says you're mad? Oh, well, never mind. He says you drink to much? Well, he's entitled to have a different opinion to you. He says you're pathetic? Well, it looks different from where you stand.

All of this happens in your head. Don't tell him about your change of mindset. Start to inwardly laugh him off, it takes away all his power.

The problem is that when he says stuff about you, you believe him. I mean, the problem really is that you don't understand that if someone makes you feel shit, the question isn't 'Are they right?' but 'How do I get them out of my life?', but if you must stay with him, at least see his criticisms of you as the bullshit they are. This will put you in a stronger mindset to leave, anyway, so may be the best first step.

Speak to Women's Aid.

How old is your younger DS? He may nor show it but he'll know what his dad is like too, deep down.

Fantastic post 💐Just shows that what people throw around LTB on these boards that it might be the right thing to do but it certainly isn't easy. I really hope it comes right for you in the end. All power to your elbow.

Please phone women's aid OP. They will help you make sense of this all

This could be me writing this.
I joined Mumsnet also through sheer desperation this morning.
Not sure my post even sent earlier!
I am in a horrible toxic marriage also. I am daily verbally abused and sometimes physically. Yesterday he referred to me as the 'C' word over 20 times.
I am a 'whore' - allsorts.
I 99% believe he has been gaslighting me for months.
Everyday something of mine goes missing either permanently or 'found' by him in the very place I'd looked 5 times earlier. He tells me I'm mad and need help, mimics me, frequently tells me my adult children all hate me and how pathetic I am.
He won't leave and I do not have the means to go myself. I was recently made redundant and my redundancy money has almost all gone. My bank card which was next to me on the bed one day suddenly vanished with my favourite sunglasses a few weeks back - neither ever turned up so I was without cash for over a week.
I am still to find a new job and he holds all the purse strings.
Has your position improved?
I hope so. If so any advice would be welcomed as I am going through the same right now with no escape.

If you contact Woman’s Aid or your local domestic violence organisation they will help and support you to leave. (They don’t just deal with physical abuse situations.) They will understand, but will not push you into anything.

Do not tell your partner you are speaking to them or that you are planning to leave.

You will be able to change your life. In time, do the Freedom Programme and get counselling via GP or local MH service.

Women’s Aid helpline at the bottom of this page. Just because Refuge is mentioned doesn’t mean you have to be asking to enter a refuge, they’ll help you work out the best solution for you.

www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk/

Evening.
We're just bobbing on here to say that we're so sorry to hear you're going through this, OP.
We hope you don't mind, but when these threads are flagged to us we like to link to our web-guides, which we hope may be helpful. If you'd like to, please do feel free to take a look at our [[https://www.mumsnet.com/webguide/domestic-violence Domestic
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Very best wishes from all at MNHQ