DH emotionally damaged - can our relationship survive?

[sosadNC]

NCed for this but am long standing MNetter

DH and I have recently started couples therapy as I have been getting increasingly frustrated at what I perceive to be his constant and increasing selfishness around protecting his own needs at the expense of family time and my needs. We’ve been together for 17 years, married for 7, two kids DD 5 and DS 3. I work full time, him part time. He’s 10 years older.

We’ve been exploring our pattern of behaviour (basically me the semi-martyr, him constantly wanting more alone time, not engaging w parenting) and through it have been having some very intense conversations about our childhoods. I am the eldest of 5 children (all of us born within 5 years), DH was brought up in a fairly classic screwy upper class British way - loveless parents, sent to boarding school at 7 etc. The conclusion of the therapist is that I have learnt to fend for myself and not ever ask for help/prioritise others, DH has (a) a reflexive need to hide away from the world as he has never had unconditional love and (b) zero model of how to be an engaged parent. So we’re in this cycle of me doing everything and then getting frustrated/ exhausted and him refusing to step up at that point.

All of which is fine, it’s great that we’re unpicking it (and should have done it years ago). BUT I just feel it is so hard and that DH is SO damaged by all this, I wonder if we will ever get to a place where I’m actually happy / he will be able to step up.

Does anyone have experience of this dynamic? It’s not childhood trauma/ptsd per se, just dysfunctional patterns. I am just not sure he can change.

Any advice? I am just so exhausted by the whole thing but know we need to keep going w the therapy.

I'm sorry you're in this situation, OP. Only you can decide what's best for you and your kids and of course we don't have the full picture.

That said, I wonder if it's not so much that he's "damaged" but that, as others have pointed out, he just doesn't want to change. The current setup is working fantastically well for him--he works only half time, gets loads of "alone time" every week (far more than most parents!), has financial security thanks to you, and also doesn't have to do a fair share of childcare/domestic labour. Why would he change that?!

I'm a big fan of Jungian analysis as a concept, but if he's been doing 15 years of it and hasn't become a more enlightened person, I doubt it's ever going to happen....at least through that route.

Splitting the assets from the business you worked so hard to create with this selfish git must be so painful to contemplate. But I wonder if you could reframe it as money you are providing (indirectly) to your children. Also, definitely consult with a solicitor and see what they advise. It might not be as dire as you think.

Also, your freedom might be worth every penny. You'd be able to live life on your own terms without being treated with disrespect in your own home. Or maybe even meet someone new.

I am from overseas. I can only afford to visit my family once a year for a couple of weeks during the school holidays so I don't know if you usually travel for longer.....but, again, consult with a solicitor. I anticipated a lot of problems from my controlling arsehole ex, but in the end it wasn't a problem. He may resent me but he loves our daughter and knows she needs to see extended family.

@HollowTalk he would like to be working FT. Will not go into too much detail but he has historically been a workaholic / v professionally successful and he hates he’s not doing that at the moment (it’s been a few years).

Which for the posters who say he won’t change this is an ideal situation for him - I don’t think it is. He says he is very unhappy with our set up, that he is stressed and miserable. I know this makes no objective sense but he is. I just feel there is nothing that either I, or life in general, can give him that will truly make him happy.

Couple of thoughts struck me. I’m the oldest of 4. DH grew up at home but dad with ocd - so didn’t get the love he needed. Also a workaholic tendencies as a result of this. At 17 years of marriage DH had a bit of a breakdown - leading to therapy

1. It’s good your DH is willing to do therapy. Just be sure jungian in the right kind. My DH the therapy is about practicing things eg saying no to his dad, having better boundaries around work. As well as talking about feelings, childhood etc
2. Personal therapy and marriage therapy is a lot. We had this for a short period and therapists were concerned about the amount of therapy - because it’s so emotional
3. Ask him why he picked you. You say you are not sure earlier in your posts. Maybe just ask him.

I hope you both manage to work through this. Sometime marriage can be shit. Often got a prolonged period. Doesn’t mean it won’t get better and be good again.

Oh god. One of those never happy/never satisfied types. And 15 years of analysis hasn't helped him figure out how to find contentment within.

It's insane to me that he thinks 'equal' means:

Getting time to himself both on the weekend and during the week. While you only have time on the weekend.

Doing exactly 50/50 around the house - while you do the lions share of paid work hours.

In any other house the person doing fewer paid hours does more house/childcare.

What does your therapist say about that?

What would happen if you insisted on genuine equality?

Honestly, he has little kids. If he can't cope psychologically with having limited 'alone time' then he's not really functioning is he? He should look at medication if he's not coping with something as day to day as working and caring for children without having multiple chunks of time away.

Has he made a link between the harm he felt from his parents sending him away, and the harm he might be doing to his own children by retreating from them like they are a chore and a burden?

With all that time, what does he do all day?

@Ivyonafence he would be hugely offended by your last paragraph, as he feels he is very present in the children’s lives and certainly he is exponentially more present than his own parents were in his. He takes any discussion of his parenting as criticism, it is impossible for me to address it and he even shuts down our therapist if she brings it up / he goes into attack mode.

When I read the thread title I rolled my eyes & thought "well who isn't?"
Aren't we all emotionally damaged in some way, muddling through life & learning about ourselves along the way?
If your partner has been in therapy for 15years I think it's past the point of helping
It may be at this point therapy is only serve to make him even more self focused / selfish / navel gazing
At what point do you say "so what you went to boarding school?"
I bet your upbringing wasn't perfect either, 1 of 5 sounds like you could get lost in the mix
Are you using your childhood as an excuse to be a shitty person? Doesn't sound like it
He sounds lazy, why are you working full time & doing 50% of childcare while he is at home
What does he actually do with his extra spare time?
Honestly you sound ill suited & this marriage sounds combative, exhausting & unsatisfying
You are modelling an unhealthy relationship for your children at this point
If you know that one's childhood can affect you, why are you showing your children that a shitty marriage is normal?
You sound like you would be happier or at least better off without him
I know people say LTB so much here
But that's because people who are happy & enjoying their relationships Don't tend to post about it online
You sound sad & unfulfilled
He sounds selfish & lazy
I still can't get over 15 years of therapy with no change or improvement
I think he is playing you with his "emotionally damaged" identity

He sounds like a spoilt twat to me.

@sosadNC

Twice a week. Analytical psychology - she is a jungian.

Oh dear. Nothing wrong with Jungian psychotherapy, for higher-level personal growth and fulfillment. But IMO this man needs behaviour therapy. All the insight in the world won't help him change in the ways you need him to (obviously hasn't, and after fifteen years almost certainly won't). It's a BIG mistake to think the therapy process is 1. understanding 2. insight 3. change. Good therapy starts with making small changes simultaneously with all the talking and understanding.

First I would speak to a solicitor about how the finances would pan out if you left - and start adapting to any necessary changes that ensures you don't lose out financially if you did leave.

Second get more help at home - cleaners? cooks? He isn't going to pull his weight - obviously doesn't now but the housework should be farmed off. In the hope it does away with all the contention. You can't leave - just give him what he wants (as long as he is the good DF you say he is) so you have as much free time as you can get.

Same dynamic here. We divorced in the end as I realised he was simply incapable of doing what I and the children needed and I didn't want my children to grow up feeling frustrated, lonely and emotionally neglected - even though for some reason I had thought it OK to put up with for 15 years lol.

I think that it’s very hard to shake off behaviours that are such a key part of your personality. My ex DH was adopted, sent to boarding school and parents divorced so he has major issues with connecting emotionally, empathy and affection. He’ s a good dad practically to our kids but finds it really hard to deal with feelings at all. As for a husband, it’s hard to describe how being married to someone for 30 years who can’t show empathy or emotion makes you feel - alone doesn’t really cover it!

Honestly he is a selfish unpleasant man who is definitely not going to try and change.. Why should he?
He knows what he should do... And just chooses not to.
It's nothing to do with his childhood... Really you are being sucked in, so he maybe emotionally unavailable or inflexible due to a "damaged" childhood but does that stop you from loading the effing dishwasher or booking playgroups?
Really????
He has such a good set up of course he won't change.. He doesn't want to.

@sosadNC it sounds really challenging. I hope you have some supports around you.

@TheOnlyAletheia yes it does feel very lonely.

Thank you @Ivyonafence

@TheOnlyAletheia - , it's so unbelievably hard isn't it? I really think I am permanently damaged from staying with my ex who was completely incapable of showing any gentleness, love, empathy. It is such a lonely place to be. I wish you well x

You've one life to live
You deserve to be happy
It's OK to go

“Oh dear. Nothing wrong with Jungian psychotherapy, for higher-level personal growth and fulfillment. But IMO this man needs behaviour therapy.
All the insight in the world won't help him change in the ways you need him to (obviously hasn't, and after fifteen years almost certainly won't). It's a BIG mistake to think the therapy process is 1. understanding 2. insight 3. change. Good therapy starts with making small changes simultaneously with all the talking and understanding.”

I’m a therapist and completely agree, sounds like it’s time to move onto something more change focused, like CBT/schema.

Only so long you can wang on about the whys and wherefores before you have to get to the what are we going to do about its!

Sounds like a hellish, shit life for everyone.

Instead of the navel gazing, take action to improve your life. Analysing and indulging your choice of husband won’t get you anywhere.

I have resisted commenting (to him) on his therapy as I don’t think it’s really my place to be dictating the help he gets. But I do agree that he needs a new therapist.

And I don’t disagree @NowEvenBetter but I am processing it all in real time so trying to figure out what the actions are!

Reading all your posts I don't think ita salvageable and irs not you. It is him.

Rather than waste time tying yourself in knots to explain his crappy sabatoeur behaviour (because the nanny thing was him trying to fuck you up wasn't it?) And trying to encourage him to engage and be the partner he should be. I would focus energies on practical ways to simply life and "manage him out" of the marriage.

Does he at least accept on a theoretical level that you should both get the same amount of downtime? That of you work FT and he works PT then he should be doing household tasks / childcare to make his hours up to your FT hours, so you both get that same downtime?

It sounds like he isn't stupid, so he must understand that.

So how does he explain his need for more time off than you?

No he doesn’t accept that @layladomino. His view is that he needs the time every day - it’s not about the overall weekly quantity (he’d be happier if he was working FT) it’s about having time every day to himself.

He says that if I want to go PT I can do that and we’d keep the nanny etc. I’d feel totally weird hanging about the house with someone else taking care of my kids so would never do that - he doesn’t get that at all.