DH emotionally damaged - can our relationship survive?

[sosadNC]

NCed for this but am long standing MNetter

DH and I have recently started couples therapy as I have been getting increasingly frustrated at what I perceive to be his constant and increasing selfishness around protecting his own needs at the expense of family time and my needs. We’ve been together for 17 years, married for 7, two kids DD 5 and DS 3. I work full time, him part time. He’s 10 years older.

We’ve been exploring our pattern of behaviour (basically me the semi-martyr, him constantly wanting more alone time, not engaging w parenting) and through it have been having some very intense conversations about our childhoods. I am the eldest of 5 children (all of us born within 5 years), DH was brought up in a fairly classic screwy upper class British way - loveless parents, sent to boarding school at 7 etc. The conclusion of the therapist is that I have learnt to fend for myself and not ever ask for help/prioritise others, DH has (a) a reflexive need to hide away from the world as he has never had unconditional love and (b) zero model of how to be an engaged parent. So we’re in this cycle of me doing everything and then getting frustrated/ exhausted and him refusing to step up at that point.

All of which is fine, it’s great that we’re unpicking it (and should have done it years ago). BUT I just feel it is so hard and that DH is SO damaged by all this, I wonder if we will ever get to a place where I’m actually happy / he will be able to step up.

Does anyone have experience of this dynamic? It’s not childhood trauma/ptsd per se, just dysfunctional patterns. I am just not sure he can change.

Any advice? I am just so exhausted by the whole thing but know we need to keep going w the therapy.

I used to go out with someone who went to boarding school very young.

He couldn’t see that he was ever wrong, thought his upbringing was marvellous (it really wasn’t, with much more than being dumped in a boarding school for 12 years) and was totally and utterly inflexible and unyielding with everything in life.

I managed for a year. I don’t think he’ll ever have a long term relationship (he’s early 50s now),

What individual therapy is your DH having (if any)

One of things that baffles me is why he picked me - I am career oriented and very far away from the sahm / owns the domestic domain model that he now seems to want me to be doing

It's not career or be a SAHM though, he wants you to do everything. That is your role, that is why he selected you, you are a capable woman who has been working full time, keeping all the plates spinning at home with the kids and still he wants you to do more, more, more. Honestly OP I think he is full of excuses, I would be surprised if he wanted to change this dynamic when it suits him very well.

My exDH also ultimately saw children/household management as my responsibility as the mother/wife. I also worked full time in a demanding job and he did not. This is despite giving all appearances as being a modern, 21st century post-sexist man. Eventually I realised that it wasn't because he's a chauvinist but rather because deep down he is the child and children don't look after other children or houses. He will always be a child because his parents did not allow him to be one.

It took me years to realise this because he was very intelligent, sensitive and seemed much more together than he is.

OP you have said you want to stay together for your children, who are quite young? What do you think will happen if you break up?

DH has been in individual therapy for >15 years.

@CowboyBebop your ex sounds chillingly similar to mine. Do you mind me asking what finally convinced you to leave? Did you have children?

In terms of what would happen if we broke up - primarily the children would be upset he wasn’t around, and they do adore him. And I would be devastated to not have them with me FT. But there are also a lot of practical reasons - I would have to hand over a chunk of cash to him (I built and sold a business a couple of years ago for quite a lot of money, which I’m assuming he would be entitled to), he would be a nightmare about access to children etc which is complicated as I am not from the U.K. and would ideally want to take them for longer periods to my home country which I think he’d simply block if we split. Basically I think he’d be a bit of an arsehole.

Does your DH goes once a week to therapy and what kind is it?

Twice a week. Analytical psychology - she is a jungian.

So you won't split because you know he'd be obstructive if you did? That's possibly the worst reason to stay together. But I think you already know that.

I'm not going to join in with analysing his behaviour as I think that's what he wants. He gets a be complicated and helpless , while you tie yourself in knots to justify his behaviour.

Of course your husband wants 20 hours a week alone time, wouldn’t we all if we could get it??? I know childhood experiences can shed light on current issues but at a certain point you are responsible for your own behavior. I think you and your DH are putting WAY too much emphasis on what he “can’t” do because of his upbringing. He has you convinced that his life “needs” to be much easier than yours. It’s probably comforting for you to think there’s some big reason why your DH isn’t a better husband but all of this therapy-speak is overcomplicating the issue. Your DH is a selfish man who keeps score and puts his needs above yours and your children’s. That is his choice and fully within his power. No amount of therapy is going to change that so you have to decide if it is enough for you. It’s not about your childhood, it’s about the life you want now. My mum was a world famous martyr and I grew up thinking it was the woman’s job to take care of her husband and kids and not complain. But I’m a grown woman now and I would not be happy in a relationship like you have described. It seems to me you deserve better but in order to get that you will have to leave your DH. He is capable of change but he has chosen not to and there’s no sign of him reconsidering.

No @DoubleGauze I am considering whether my life would be better or worse if we split, and that is one relevant factor.

@Rickrollme I think that’s right and that’s exactly where I was pre therapy. This is I guess one last roll of the dice to get him to be more self aware about the patterns. Let’s see.

@sosadNC

Thanks *@BlingLoving*. I don’t disagree.

A lot of it is around him accepting that sometimes he needs to do more than exactly 50% of his share (we split everything 50/50 despite me working ft and him pt - this is an ongoing source of conflict as we have a ft nanny yet he insists on us having equal time off on the weekends whereas my point is that he gets 20hrs to himself during the week). Eg I had a very important customer come to the U.K. last week to do a big negotiation and our nanny got Covid and wasn’t around. He threw a strop about having to do all of the childcare (I organised temp nannies but there were gaps in the coverage) and made the whole thing super stressful for me. And is STILL complaining that he’s behind on his work and needs some alone time because of last week.

Stop trying to fix a selfish waster.

The above post illustrate EXACTLY who he is.

A selfish prick.

Stop fling for him being "damaged" is the cause of him being a selfish prick.

Stop treating him like some project you can fix.

He's a dud.

Shit father.
Shit husband.

Divorcing him is not the nuclear option, it's the intelligent one.

You are wasting precious years.

Enough!

Get yourself a SHL....shit hot lawyer and get your ducks in a row.

Being afraid of him is no reason to stay, just means he's an abusive asshole too.

It's good you have a nanny as he can't claim that his pt work means he is primary carer, just that he is a lazy shit to boot.

A really good divorce lawyer is what you need. Quietly.

DH and I both had horrendous childhoods. Broken families, anger, resentment, suicide attempts, mental health issues ....... difficult step-parents etc.

We've both made a huge effort to give our own DC a better childhood than we ever had, and we've left all of our baggage firmly outside our combined lives because you can't change the past...... only the future. On the other side, DH's sister is still very much immersed in their childhood and is angry, bitter, resentful and twisted as a result. I can't be around her, she really drags the room down within seconds of entering it.

Your DH sounds like a self indulgent twat. Seriously.

I don't mean to be hard on you op. I've been where you are. I left a very different man that showed similar behaviour to your husband. It wasn't easy. But it was absolutely the right decision.

Please the remember that we teach our children how to behave and what to expect from others by just living our lives as their parents.

Break the cycle. Not easy , but worth doing.

Man i’m all for therapy but fifteen years of it and twice a week? I mean, his childhood doesn’t sound great but at a certain point you’ve got to make actual changes in your life rather than continuing to just do therapy for years and years.

He sounds very selfish and like it’s all about him. Many (most) people with shitty childhoods have no choice but to work and take care of their kids, without years of expensive therapy since provision is so bad unless you can afford it or are so unwell you need to be hospitalised.

I’m sorry he and a bad time with disengaged parents and going to boarding school but bloody hell, at what point is he going to do his fair share? Sounds like never and essentially he wants you to do it all, can’t believe he works part time but moans so much about basic tasks like childcare.

He’s got an easy life with you, but makes out like he’s hard done by. I expect he’ll spend his whole life essentially pleasing himself first and resenting anything that means he has to give even a little.

He got raised by selfish parents and now he’s one himself. And if 15 years of therapy hasn’t sorted that i’d say it’s just an ingrained personality trait now.

*please do

*difficult

I really should give up typing today.

Analytical Jungian?! Psychoanalysis is old fashioned and not really rated by the NHS and other agencies. No wonder he's been going for years and years.

He’s very self indulgent. I know that. It’s the lack of flexibility that’s so exasperating.

15 years of twice weekly therapy? I can't get over it!
The cost??!!!

clearly he is incurable

He hasn’t been twice a week for 15years - it’s just what he’s doing at the moment. All covered by insurance!

Hi OP. I had a similar dynamic with my ex. He is emotionally dead inside. Shit husband and not much better as a father. He honestly believes if he’s physically around that’s enough.

I gave him so much leeway, enabled his uselessness for years until I’d had enough. I come from a dysfunctional background too but fuck it I’m a good parent, i work my ass off to have a good relationship with my kids and I gave him everything. I think some people love to use the tough childhood as an excuse for being a shit person and not making any effort. It’s not rocket science to be a good partner and parent. Humans can learn and adapt, my ex has learned absolutely nothing from our marriage breakdown because he just doesn’t want to.

The more you post, it sounds less like an emotional issue and more like his fundamental belief is that his needs come first. He's not going to change. I would ditch the couples counselling and seek individual counselling for yourself.

It's interesting that he had such a traditional upbringing and now works part-time while you work full-time. In an ideal world, would he continue with that?

In his ideal world, I mean.