Refuse to go on holiday?

[Shouldigoornot]

Hi there. DH really wants me and DC to go on a holiday with a group of his friends and their families. There will be one family with DC same age as ours but they have a history of being flaky and may not turn up. Other families have adult DC who won’t be joining them.
DH tends to drink very heavily when out with his mates. (Otherwise he does not). In the past I have been ignored on weekends away while he gets paralytic. If I tried to rein him in I was told I can’t stop him from having a good time with his friends. Fine - I just stopped going away on these weekends - problem solved.
But now he’s begging me to do this group “family” holiday. First time to bring the DC away with his friends.
I was thinking about it as I know he is really keen and the DC would probably enjoy the trip - but the other night he came in really drunk after a night out, slurring speech and falling over in front of the DC. I got really angry and made him sleep downstairs.
He hasn’t done that in a while but it’s made me think. On holiday I’ll be the nagging wife, ruining his fun. And if he comes into a hotel room in that state I can’t kick him out. He says his mates won’t be drinking on a family holiday - but like I say, there’ll only be one other family with young DC and they are flaky and may not turn up.
Go or not? Thanks!

He drinks about 2-3 days/week but stops at one or two. Sometimes a beer with dinner, sometimes watches a match in the local big home in an hour.
Yes, he has a dependence. Yes, he’s in denial. Yes it has caused problems between us. Things have been stable and if this is as bad as it gets it’s very manageable.
This trip though is a potential problem. And yes, it is sad that we can’t go in a group holiday with friends so because of his drinking.
Fwiw he would not drink heavily if on holiday with my family or friends.

A relief to talk about it on here because I haven’t talked about it to anyone in real life.

"Yes, he has a dependence. Yes, he’s in denial. Yes it has caused problems between us. Things have been stable and if this is as bad as it gets it’s very manageable".

What is your own definition of an alcoholic if not the above?. They do not all drink from park benches; some of them do hold down jobs and or otherwise are indeed like your H too. His sister and mother have drink problems too; its controlling them.

Its not manageable is it; its causing you and your children here emotional harm. When has he ever really had an alcohol free week to your direct knowledge; he hasn't has he?.

You're being asked to go on some skiing holiday with his mates in order for him to drink heavily whilst you do all the childcare and otherwise potter about. He won't likely be safe on skis after a session either.

Alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy so it is good you are writing about this on here. Its a start and I would further suggest you contact Al-anon as they are very helpful to people affected by another person's drinking. At the very least read their literature.

I always listen to @AttilaTheMeerkat on these matters. She is v wise.

Would your H agree to some joint counselling?

You should never do anything you don’t want to.

OP not being able to give your dh parental responsibility because he drinks is far from normal.
This thread isn't about a holiday it's about you being married to a functioning alcoholic.
Please consider carefully if you want to continue to live like this.

Thanks everyone. It’s been helpful to put this all down.
Being drunk in front of the DC was not good. He fell down the stairs! And still can’t see what was wrong with that. But it’s made my mind up - there’ll be no group holiday with the DC. They’d have to miss two of days of school too - not in itself a major issue but when you add it in with everything else.

Are you teetotal op?

I’m wondering how bad his drinking really is. Obviously he shouldn’t be falling down drunk but if that’s because his tolerance is so low, then you need to tackle him on not keeping up with these particular friends.

If he can control that aspect by actually doing it the next couple of times, then it sounds as if the holiday might be viable.

@NYnewstart

Are you teetotal op?

I’m wondering how bad his drinking really is. Obviously he shouldn’t be falling down drunk but if that’s because his tolerance is so low, then you need to tackle him on not keeping up with these particular friends.

If he can control that aspect by actually doing it the next couple of times, then it sounds as if the holiday might be viable.

See, this is the thing. I drink very very rarely. So I’m conscious that I may be overly critical of others having the occasional fun night out with friends. I hate to think that I’ll ruin a holiday because of my extreme dislike of drinking which others don’t share. I wonder if DH would ever forgive me for stopping the DC from going along.

I actually think you should go. And have a few glasses with the wives and soak up the sun and if the husbands act like pricks, you can all leave them when you get home. Divorce after a bit of sunshine might be a little easier.

Tbh op it's obviously over anyway. No one who gives a shit about your feelings basically tells you to go fuck yourself they'll do what they want and carries on with their bs.

But go and get some sun. Maybe suggest the boys all get their own room and you and the ladies n kids get your own individual rooms.

Sounds like you've come to a good conclusion OP, hope the conversation goes well (and you get a nice holiday this year)

See I wouldn’t say I have a dependence. I could stop if I want to, but like your dh op, having a drink, even occasionally too much sometimes, is fun. So although it’s not a dependence, I don’t want to stop!

Difficult for someone who rarely drinks to understand.

He’ll take it easy at first I guess but there’ll be a couple of nights at least when he’ll just go for it. He’s never aggressive - just stupid and embarrassing.

Have a word about not trying to keep up with them as his tolerance is lower than theirs, but accept he’s entitled to enjoy him self occasionally, even if it not your idea of fun.

If you wouldn’t enjoy the whole holiday, it’s a different matter - but if it’s because he gets a bit too drunk one or two nights max, then I think you are being a bit unreasonable.

@NYnewstart

See I wouldn’t say I have a dependence. I could stop if I want to, but like your dh op, having a drink, even occasionally too much sometimes, is fun. So although it’s not a dependence, I don’t want to stop!

Difficult for someone who rarely drinks to understand.

He’ll take it easy at first I guess but there’ll be a couple of nights at least when he’ll just go for it. He’s never aggressive - just stupid and embarrassing.

Have a word about not trying to keep up with them as his tolerance is lower than theirs, but accept he’s entitled to enjoy him self occasionally, even if it not your idea of fun.

If you wouldn’t enjoy the whole holiday, it’s a different matter - but if it’s because he gets a bit too drunk one or two nights max, then I think you are being a bit unreasonable.

Depends on whether you only care about your own fun I suppose. I wouldn't find it fun to watch my husband falling down drunk and incapable around my young children and even less fun wondering whether he's fit the next day to look after them properly on the slopes.

And I like a drink too.

I hate to think that I’ll ruin a holiday because of my extreme dislike of drinking which others don’t share. I wonder if DH would ever forgive me for stopping the DC from going along.

You're all living this fiction that his way is ok and the default and you're being odd to object. Can you imagine a world in which he would say:

I hate to think that I’ll ruin a holiday because of my extreme drinking which others don’t share. I wonder if DW would ever forgive me for ignoring and upsetting the DC through being drunk.

If this is just unthinkable, then you need to tell him that there is a big gulf between you on this, and you don't want to live this way anymore.

Well done for deciding not to go on this holiday.

I’m another one who suggests that you start getting support for you and your DC from Al Anon. Your DC are being damaged by their father’s excess drinking and it’s good that you want to protect them from this.

I wouldn't go.
I'd let him take the DC if he or you think they'll miss out. Certainly give him the option so he can't blame you if the DC don't go.

Why does he want it to be a family holiday? Can't he just go with his mates? The 3 of you can do your own family holiday. If he wants have his kids and his mates kids together then they can do a weekend of something kid oriented together.

Good on you OP for standing up for yourself and your kids. Send him off by himself and set up some good insurance. You might be quids in...

@Shouldigoornot

Thanks everyone. It’s been helpful to put this all down. Being drunk in front of the DC was not good. He fell down the stairs! And still can’t see what was wrong with that. But it’s made my mind up - there’ll be no group holiday with the DC. They’d have to miss two of days of school too - not in itself a major issue but when you add it in with everything else.

That is worrying — that he cannot see what was wrong with his behaviour either in the short term ( scaring dc, killing or injuring himself) or long term ( dc begin to normalise alcoholism) I think your DH sounds like a functioning alcoholic. I suggest you contact Al Anon who will help& support you.

Update: Well, I told him tonight that I didn’t think the family holiday would work. I pointed out that he would want to do some proper skiing and wouldn’t be able to if he had the DC. Also that if he was minding the DC on the slopes he couldn’t drink more than a couple the night before. He denied he’d be drinking more than that anyway but he agreed that he’d like to ski properly with his mates child-free.
So he’s going for 3 nights by himself and we’ll take the DC family-only another time.
I also calmly said that it’s none of my business how much he drinks but next time he’s drunk he should wait till the DC are in bed before coming home and then he should sleep downstairs. He has agreed to this.
A result for me - and I feel calm and non-stressed. Thanks for such a unanimous opinion on here re the holiday.

That's a decent resolution on the holiday point. But I hope you also pointed out that it wasn't going to be much of a holiday for you. You count as well as him and the kids, don't let him brush that off.

Also, I kind of think it is your business how much he drinks, when it's you who has to pick up the slack as a result. But that may be a point to make another time.

Agree with @Skiptheheartsandflowers, it is absolutely your business how much he drinks and gets drunk. But well done on handling the conversation.

Oh I can be very forthright. But it often leaves us both feeling angry. I’m going to move towards saying less and doing more. Doing what suits me with far less discussion. I just wasn’t sure if cancelling the holiday was OTT. It wasn’t, as pps here said, so I just did it. Nicely, no argument, no blaming. But it’s done.

Thank you!