Shitty husband, or is it me?

[happybleepingday]

DH and I have been having troubles for a few years now. I’m in almost permanent therapy trying to deal with childhood issues that only raised their head as I hit middle age and became a parent.

We have 1 child and both have demanding jobs with a lot of responsibility. DH often struggles to think of things others would term “wifework” but I don’t let him get away with that. We’re equal parents so knowing what is going on is for both of us.

So whilst things aren’t ever wonderful, they have been better, in my view, for the last few months at least.

However, the last few days DH has been quite selfish and then very snappy when I have made reasonable comments about them.

Eg Friday night he dropped DC to a class and then came home. I ran the hoover around and mopped the floors of muddy paw prints (despite towels at all of the doors he just lets the puppy back in from the garden with no wiping). He picked DC up and I made their dinner. We watched a bit of TV whilst DC in bed before going to bed (me at midnight, him no idea what time but there was 1/3 bottle of gin missing the next morning).

Sat morning - I took DC to a class. DH at home for 3 hours. Whilst I was out I went food shopping, bought DD some particular school bits she needed, paid for her school lunches and music lessons. I didn’t sit and have coffee or anything during what might otherwise be a bit of downtime.

Get home at lunchtime and DH is still in pyjamas. Puppy isn’t fed, hasn’t slept, dishwasher not emptied (all his dirty stuff from the night before filling the sink, worktops and hob), washing not hung out. When I questioned what had happened he said the puppy was “needy” and he didn’t have chance to do anything. Puppy shouldn’t really have been away for more than 1 of those 3 hours.

I did the dishwasher and asked him to hang the washing. He made food for himself creating another 1/2 load for the occupied dishwasher.

I had a load of work to do as I hadn’t been able to get it done during the week, but Saturday night we had a rare family dinner together which involved me doing the dishwasher again to be able to use the sink/worktops, 90 mins cooking, then I tidied the kitchen and put the dishwasher on again.

I finally got to start my work at about 9pm and worked till about 11:30pm. I would have more to do on Sunday.

Yesterday I had arranged to take DC and a friend out for a couple of hours. I did another load of washing in the morning and hung it out before we went. Emptied the dishwasher. DH was on his laptop when we left but I wasn’t paying attention to what he was doing. When we got back he was still on his laptop, working (in PJs). DC needed to gather items for a school project, which I did. I sorted DC’s dinner and then sat down to work (7:30pm) at which point he slammed his laptop shut and said he supposed that meant he needed to do child and puppy management now. I ignored this.

He seemed fine once DC in bed and was chatting to me about a holiday we have planned whilst I was working. He went to bed at about 11pm having checked that “we weren’t doing anything for valentines” (because we might after 10+ years of not?) and I went up at about midnight when I’d done as much work as I could.

This morning I put a half drunk cuppa on the side before taking DC to school. Came back and the cup has gone. I ask if he’s seen it (in case I’m misremembering) and he snarls that it’s in the dishwasher. I said I hadn’t finished it and flicked the kettle on for another one. At which point he exploded, shouting that I’m abusing him all the time, then gaslighting him. That I didn’t really wonder where the cup was because it should have been obvious and that I was making a big deal about it all the time. I replied that I just asked where it was, and that it was him that was now raising his voice and escalating this to unreasonable heights. He stormed off, slammed the door and hasn’t spoken to me since.

I literally can’t do any more and don’t know what to do now. He’s taking DC away this weekend to his family, who he will no doubt slag me off to. He’ll be expecting me to pack everything DC need but right now he can fuck right off.

Can anyone shed any light on what is going on here?

There are plenty of men I know who do their fair share as part of a couple, or on their own as single men, so it's no excuse for a man to fall back on evolution for their failings. They're all capable, some just choose not to do it.

Sounds tome like he thinks he has work time and downtime and any household/DC chores will only be done IF he has extra time and feels like it.

Assuming he genuinely worked all day Sunday, when you then sat down to work, I'm guessing he felt resentful that now he just wanted a little down time and instead, he was going to have to look after DC and puppy?

Obviously, he's being completely unfair and irrational but I think it's worth a conversation. To highlight that just because he's working, doesn't mean you're swanning around chilling out all day.

@happybleepingday

I left him with DC when they were about 1 for a few hours during the day. Came back at teatime to discover he hadn’t bothered feeding them AT ALL all day! Had fed himself though!

That's neglect. I would be absolutely furious. No grownup can be that clueless, he now just sounds really mean and vicious. Does he have capacity to be a responsable grownup in other areas? I assume so, since he manages to hold on to a job.

@happybleepingday

Absolutely not. He can hold down an extremely responsible international job. If he can do that he can remember that dogs need feeding, that pots don’t wash themselves and that school uniforms need washing at weekends. I’m not his mother.

There are millions of women and men with exactly this dynamic and most of us (the women) have the same justified rage about it.

The evolution stuff upthread is utter bullshit IME. Men don’t think about wifework because we do it and so they don’t have to. If you went under a bus tomorrow your DH would learn to load the dishwasher and wash the uniform.

I don’t have any solutions sorry. The “solution” most women adopt is to take a step back at work so they have time for all the extra home crap they are dealing with. But that is not a good solution, on so many levels.

I accommodate his working around international time zones ALL THE TIME, rarely with little notice. And his exercise. And his social events. And I do the numbers for his (our) company.

I have an emotionally and mentally challenging role. We earn more or less the same. I get about a tenth of the downtime that he has. That’s about to change.

I told him I had loads of work to do over the weekend from Friday morning. He said nothing about working at the weekend until he was already hours into doing it.

@happybleepingday

I told him I had loads of work to do over the weekend from Friday morning. He said nothing about working at the weekend until he was already hours into doing it.

Aaa, but that's because MEN's jobs are ALWAYS more important, more relevant etc.

I refer to this as the Tesco theory - a woman working in Tesco with an unexpectedly sick child would, of course, be expected to cancel her shift, take unpaid leave etc in order to sort out the child who cannot go to school (because the Tesco job is a job, not a career/ money is less etc etc). A man working in Tesco with a sick child would, of course, NOT be able to cancel a shift as it would be letting everyone down/would risk his job etc (and the other person's job is more flexible/less team focused etc).

It’s called learnt helplessness, OP. They do it because they think it’s beneath them, a woman should do it.
Just plain and simple misogynism.

If it’s any consolation, I chose very carefully both partners. I made sure they can cook, don’t expect me to wash and clean etc. Within hours after getting married, my ExH forgot how to wash a cup. I resisted and within years he would deliberately leave all his empty cans and bottles on the floor for me to ‘rinse and recycle’.

ExP was/is extremely clean and on the ball. He would open the fridge and see what’s running out/needs bought and just do it. He got a cleaner in when he upped his hours. Moved in with me and his arse got lodged in the sofa, he needed special invite to help with cooking, never rinsed the sink after using it and told me the state of the house is embarrassing. I agreed, on two counts, one that he is making a mess, two that he lives here and expects me to clean after him. So now he’s moved back to his house. He’s more than capable, I know that. It’s just that he sees it as my job. Nope, it’s not.

It’s frankly embarrassing, they’re grown arse men and think we’re their mothers.

There are plenty of men I know who do their fair share as part of a couple, or on their own as single men, so it's no excuse for a man to fall back on evolution for their failings. They're all capable, some just choose not to do it

OP I used to feel exactly as you do and my husband didn’t pull his weight. The thing is, my husband managed quite well on his own before he met me. He prioritised his ‘very important job’, washed up when he needed to and did laundry when he needed to. He was well presented when we met and his flat wasn’t a hovel. He is quite capable of managing our house and our children but he does it very differently to me- and on an entirely different timescale. The children would get to school and on time, probably with all the wrong stuff until they worked out they needed to remember it for themselves. They would get fed. The laundry would get done when there were no clean clothes left and we have a cleaner anyway. The kids would do way less out of school activities (which probably wouldn’t be a bad thing). It’s not that men don’t do stuff, they just don’t do it the way women want and in the timescale we have in our heads.

If I want stuff done I tell my husband and I tell him when he needs to do it by. Now that’s not good enough for some women….but that’s the situation I’m in so either I work with that or I decide that being on my own is better and leave.

How old are your DC? I get mine to help. I’m damned if my DS is going to think he gets out of helping round the house. And when we are going away I get them to get a pile of clothes together and then I check it. Don’t let your husband pack for the kids- the kids will suffer.
It can get better x

@Ellowyn

Men think different than women do. They are very single minded and tend to concentrate on one thing, whereas we can keep track of dozens of things at the same time. It's how we evolved. Men would go out and look for something to kill for dinner. Women would be back at the cave, keeping the home fires burning, cooking, watching many children, repairing/making clothes, preserving food, making baskets, cooking pots etc.

When I was a girl most wives would concentrate on keeping the man's home life trouble/stress free, so he could put all his energy into his career/bringing home the bacon. Most men would never cook, clean or take care of the children, because the women didn't expect them to.

Now, in most families it takes both parents working to keep a roof over their heads. Of course there will be stress and conflict. Women, even though they are employed outside the home, instinctually continue on as they have for thousands of years, taking care of their family/home and it becomes just too much for them. The men, meanwhile tend lounge about, having one thought at a time. The results are blood on the walls.

Sorry, I don't have a solution, except maybe for couples to understand they cannot expect the other one to think as they do. Try not to worry about puppy paw prints. Lower your standards. Just have a good clean once a week, if that, until the children are old enough pitch in. Soon as they are old enough, give them chores such as feeding the dog, talking the dog out, helping clean. It's how farm families manage.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely disagree about this tired trope. Men are perfectly capable of multitasking and thing about multiple things at once. How would they hold down complex, high powered jobs requiring project management otherwise?

Some men just choose not to do this at home, but it is a choice, not lack of capability. Some men in a relationship simply don't see it as their job.

@happybleepingday

I left him with DC when they were about 1 for a few hours during the day. Came back at teatime to discover he hadn’t bothered feeding them AT ALL all day! Had fed himself though!

This would give me the RAGE

I hate to say this as I am such a dog lover, but maybe the dog has to go? You don't have time for it, and it's not fair to leave a dog hungry for hours (I know that wasn't you OP), or not keep it clean. I am assuming the dog doesn't get walked either unless you are around to do it, and you work such long hours, including weekends + entertaining/taking care your child. Unless you can get a 50/50 split of chores/caring, there is no way the dog can stay. It would not be in the best interest of the dog.

Ditch him. What does he actually add to your life? It sounds like you already do everything yourself anyway. He's not your partner, he's a useless selfish surly man-child who can't be relied on.

@Snoken

I hate to say this as I am such a dog lover, but maybe the dog has to go? You don't have time for it, and it's not fair to leave a dog hungry for hours (I know that wasn't you OP), or not keep it clean. I am assuming the dog doesn't get walked either unless you are around to do it, and you work such long hours, including weekends + entertaining/taking care your child. Unless you can get a 50/50 split of chores/caring, there is no way the dog can stay. It would not be in the best interest of the dog.

The dog is fine, much loved and everyone takes their part in looking after her. DH walks her most, actually (I think she’s an excuse not to be home and doing other things).

@Ellowyn

Men think different than women do. They are very single minded and tend to concentrate on one thing, whereas we can keep track of dozens of things at the same time. It's how we evolved. Men would go out and look for something to kill for dinner. Women would be back at the cave, keeping the home fires burning, cooking, watching many children, repairing/making clothes, preserving food, making baskets, cooking pots etc.

When I was a girl most wives would concentrate on keeping the man's home life trouble/stress free, so he could put all his energy into his career/bringing home the bacon. Most men would never cook, clean or take care of the children, because the women didn't expect them to.

Now, in most families it takes both parents working to keep a roof over their heads. Of course there will be stress and conflict. Women, even though they are employed outside the home, instinctually continue on as they have for thousands of years, taking care of their family/home and it becomes just too much for them. The men, meanwhile tend lounge about, having one thought at a time. The results are blood on the walls.

Sorry, I don't have a solution, except maybe for couples to understand they cannot expect the other one to think as they do. Try not to worry about puppy paw prints. Lower your standards. Just have a good clean once a week, if that, until the children are old enough pitch in. Soon as they are old enough, give them chores such as feeding the dog, talking the dog out, helping clean. It's how farm families manage.

@Ellowyn This is bollocks though. Women learn to multitask because they have to. Men don't because women pick up the slack for them.

If you both work a lot would it not make sense to get a cleaner? People have different energy levels - some people are like Duracell bunnies and others are a bit more exhausted and need some down time.
You don't sound like you like him though and I think that's really important in a relationship.

To clarify, up to now he hasn’t been this useless. If anything he’s the more reliable parent at the moment - I’m away for work every couple of weeks, he does more school runs, more activity runs etc. That’s probably what has made this weekend even more galling. The one weekend I need him to step up and give me some time he does practically nothing.

@ittakes2

If you both work a lot would it not make sense to get a cleaner? People have different energy levels - some people are like Duracell bunnies and others are a bit more exhausted and need some down time. You don't sound like you like him though and I think that's really important in a relationship.

He won’t have anyone come into the house to clean.

We have issues with clutter (everywhere) and he has a lot of kit/valuables so he just doesn’t trust anyone to be here. And we’re both WFH during the day so couldn’t have people cleaning then. We’ve gone around that several times.

Do you even want to be with him? Would separate households not massively improve your workload?

He didn’t feed his own children all day when they were one year old, but remembered to feed himself? He didn’t feed the puppy either? He sounds like a sociopath. And a cunt.

Have you posted about this awful man before, @happybleepingday? It all sounds familiar.

Probably.

@Ellowyn

Men think different than women do. They are very single minded and tend to concentrate on one thing, whereas we can keep track of dozens of things at the same time. It's how we evolved. Men would go out and look for something to kill for dinner. Women would be back at the cave, keeping the home fires burning, cooking, watching many children, repairing/making clothes, preserving food, making baskets, cooking pots etc.

When I was a girl most wives would concentrate on keeping the man's home life trouble/stress free, so he could put all his energy into his career/bringing home the bacon. Most men would never cook, clean or take care of the children, because the women didn't expect them to.

Now, in most families it takes both parents working to keep a roof over their heads. Of course there will be stress and conflict. Women, even though they are employed outside the home, instinctually continue on as they have for thousands of years, taking care of their family/home and it becomes just too much for them. The men, meanwhile tend lounge about, having one thought at a time. The results are blood on the walls.

Sorry, I don't have a solution, except maybe for couples to understand they cannot expect the other one to think as they do. Try not to worry about puppy paw prints. Lower your standards. Just have a good clean once a week, if that, until the children are old enough pitch in. Soon as they are old enough, give them chores such as feeding the dog, talking the dog out, helping clean. It's how farm families manage.

What a load of half-baked evo-psych bollox.

My DM is eighty years old. She didn't focus on "making her husband's life stress free" so he could bring home the bacon, because she was as smart as he was, and just as driven, and she worked just as hard doing the same job. Just as the vast majority of women have always had to work. This fantasy stress relieving wifey picture has never existed other than in small privileged bubbles and in your head.

Men are as capable of juggling priorities as women are. They can just often get away with not fucking bothering. And there are no gender differences in ability to multitask.

I would just stop with everything revolving around him.

Let him fend for himself.

I was raised by a very career-driven mother and a nurturing father (who enjoyed his career but didn’t want to climb to the top of the ladder).

So that “men can’t do it” bollocks is not my lived experience AT ALL.