Is my brother emotionally abusing his wife?

[May182]

I had a chat with my sister in law today and I’m really concerned about what she told me about her and my brother’s relationship. Both her and myself have recently had babies so I know hormones/emotions may be running high anyway but I just wanted to hear if anyone else has experienced this and what I should do.

So my brother and sister in law have a 3 month old baby and since they’ve had the baby, she said their relationship has changed (which I know is normal but there’s more to it). He only texts her to check in on the baby and doesn’t ask how she is doing. He doesn’t show her any affection anymore, he doesn’t help with housework and she has asked him to help as she’s finding it difficult to cope.

Apparently his response was that he’s working, she’s on maternity leave and that she’s nagging him. She’s cried to him during these arguments and he says by crying that she’s playing the victim and making it all about her. If she gives up during an argument and stops talking to him, he calls her names in the heat of the moment and has told her to go f* herself. I’m astounded that my brother would act this way but I can’t see why his wife would be making this up.

She said she feels like she’s constantly treading on egg shells at home, that she’s a shell of who she used to be, but thinks she may have post natal depression.

I really want to help her, but I’m unsure what to do. Do I speak to my brother? My parents? Or should I just keep checking in with her? Any advice is greatly appreciated x

Just listen and show kindness. Best not tonsay anything to your brother as on the off chance he is abusive, he will use it against her that she spoke to you. Though from what you've said it just seems like he is a but of a lazy, disrespectful arsehole.

Be a listening ear. And a big hug wouldn't go amis either. You could also offer to pop round and help with the house sometime too?

And if you notice him being a lazy git when you are there, then you can call him out on it.

Oh wait, missed the bit where he told her to go fuck herself. Eeeh...yeah that's abusive.

Still though, listen and empathise.

But I hope she leave him.

One hundred percent this is emotional abuse; I had similar from my emotionally abusive ex. Your sister-in-law is lucky that she has you to talk to as often this is swept under the carpet.

First, continue to offer emotional support to your sister-in-law and assure her that your brother's words and behaviour are not okay. I would not necessarily use the words 'emotional abuse' at this stage but certainly say that he is not behaving in a healthy way, does not seem supportive and not what you would expect (or received) from your own partner. However perhaps also express that it's not the man you know and perhaps he is struggling with being a new dad and needs external support.

Next, I would probably approach your brother in as non-judgemental a fashion as possible. Tell him that your sister in law has come to you and that some things she has told you have made you uncomfortable and unlike the kind person you know. You know that having a new baby is stressful and you wonder if he is struggling and finding it hard to be supportive of his wife. Make it clear that you believe what she's said and are not there to litigate who is right or wrong, but to express that you think the dynamic is unhealthy and that she needs more support from him as a new mum, and perhaps he/they need more support from you and your wider family/his workplace/a therapist etc as he and they come to terms with the changes around becoming parents. It's really critical to get this right as if this is not addressed, it can become a long-term resentment that may ultimately destroy the marriage.

If he is open to this, perhaps encourage him/them to approach your parents or her parents for more support, or approach them yourself to suggest it. Maybe couples counselling or a new parents course would be useful for them too.

If he denies any problems or blames it all on his partner, you may have a deeper issue that he is in denial about his own behaviour. This might be the time to bring your parents in, if you think they will be supportive of his wife and not afraid to confront unhealthy behaviour in their son. In this case, also step up your support of his wife, encouraging her to speak independently to a therapist about her marriage and gain some perspective on whether this is a healthy relationship to raise a child in.

Support her. Tell her you are there for her. Give her a safe place to run to.

Try to be present when an incident may occur. Then call out DB on what you have seen.

Couples councilling is never recommended where there is abuse. Also, please please do not try to rationalise his behaviour by suggesting he is stressed by baby. Often when people reach a point of confiding in others about nasty behaviour, they have already made all the excuses in the book for this person. They don't need ppl suggesting they make more. It can make them feel as if they are overreacting and cause them to stay in the abusive relationship.

Just listen and be supportive. You dont need to badmouth your brother. But you could say 'I can understand why his behaviour made you feel that way'.

Don’t say a word to him or your parents for now.

The go F yourself is certainly abusive, so if he realises she’s talking to you, it could get worse. Go round a lot and be supportive, encourage her to go to GP to check on her MH. Pull your brother up on visible laziness or cruelty. I think you can tell your DP and make sure he models good behaviour when possible.

Gently encourage her to push back. And if nothing improves be clear to her that she can leave.

You sound like a lovely SIL. My ex used his sister to hoover me back in the first time I tried to end our relationship.
Being a non-judgemental support is key, so that she has somewhere safe to talk. Don’t tell your brother what she’s told you because he might use it against her.
Call him out if you see him being abusive but don’t mention things you haven’t actually witnessed.
If she wants to end the relationship, be there for her.

I'd agree not to mention that she's spoken to you.

How's your relationship with him usually though? If you have opportunity to see him on his own could you casually ask him how things are now the baby is here? How he's finding fatherhood etc? See if he gives anything away to suggest he's not coping so well?

And keep offering your support to her, of course, any way you can.

Couples councilling is never recommended where there is abuse. Also, please please do not try to rationalise his behaviour by suggesting he is stressed by baby. Often when people reach a point of confiding in others about nasty behaviour, they have already made all the excuses in the book for this person. They don't need ppl suggesting they make more. It can make them feel as if they are overreacting and cause them to stay in the abusive relationship.

@Pinkbonbon It has literally only been three months since the baby was born.

I know you take a hard line on the idea that abusers all clearly know they're being abusive and never change but this is not reality. People can and do go through bad or difficult phases where they do not behave at their best.

I would never suggest someone stay in an abusive relationship but I also don't think you can or should write someone off as a hopeless case at the first sign of unhealthy behaviour. Everyone deserves to be given a chance to acknowledge their mistakes and change.

@CheekyHobson

Couples councilling is never recommended where there is abuse. Also, please please do not try to rationalise his behaviour by suggesting he is stressed by baby. Often when people reach a point of confiding in others about nasty behaviour, they have already made all the excuses in the book for this person. They don't need ppl suggesting they make more. It can make them feel as if they are overreacting and cause them to stay in the abusive relationship.

@Pinkbonbon It has literally only been three months since the baby was born.

I know you take a hard line on the idea that abusers all clearly know they're being abusive and never change but this is not reality. People can and do go through bad or difficult phases where they do not behave at their best.

I would never suggest someone stay in an abusive relationship but I also don't think you can or should write someone off as a hopeless case at the first sign of unhealthy behaviour. Everyone deserves to be given a chance to acknowledge their mistakes and change.

No, no they don't. I don't care how stressed you are, calling your partner a bunch of nasty names when she has literally just had your baby is not something you should be looking to excuse or forgive.

I do take the approach that abusers can't change, for the most part. However we do not know the full in and outs of this situation. Based on what we do know though, she should still leave asap though as she has a newborn and he is being nasty af to her. And I'm.sorry, but there is NO excuse for it.

IF it is a momentary mental health issue and he has never been this way before then HE should seek counciling and see his gp. And maybe a few years down the line, if he really proves himself better, they can talk about forgiveness or perhaps, though I wouldn't recommend it, trying again. But as is, no, she certainly does not have to look for excuses for his behavior or give him another chance. She needs to get out of this toxic environment and focus on her newborn baby.

Basically I'm saying, forgiveness has to be earned. And earned from a safe distance. And no, it isn't owed. Nor is is the chance to earn it. After someone abuses you, you owe them nothing.

How is he with the baby - let him bath baby etc - let him see looking after a baby is time consuming and demanding. Is he doing anything at home? If he helped with the baby the sil could do whatever she needs to.

I would get right in there and see my brother and speak to him about it. My parents and myself and other sibling would absolutely intervene and sort him out.

Which is why thankfully I know my bro would never be like this.

Family accountability is a very strong thing when it exists, and it does promote good behaviour.

Hopefully your family is also one where you wouldn't let certain things happen.

He will of course hate you intervening. But you must. And you need to hear his side of the story too.

The most important thing in a situation like this is to ask her what she wants/needs from you? Are you usually close?

I'm wondering what her reason for choosing to confide in his sister is. Not that it's a bad thing but it's possible she wants you to help her but you need to ask.

The last thing she needs is you talking to your brother/parents or anyone else and worsening the situation at home before she's ready to deal with any fallout.

I agree with the PP that this might be a time of high stress and he's acting out of character but it's still on him to sort his shit out. Preferably out of the home if he can't be a reasonable and kind husband and father.

@Mogwig

I would get right in there and see my brother and speak to him about it. My parents and myself and other sibling would absolutely intervene and sort him out.

Which is why thankfully I know my bro would never be like this.

Family accountability is a very strong thing when it exists, and it does promote good behaviour.

Hopefully your family is also one where you wouldn't let certain things happen.

He will of course hate you intervening. But you must. And you need to hear his side of the story too.

Please trust me when I say this is a bad idea and absolutely not what DA experts would advise.

This sort of intervention often escalates things at home.

No way is this abusive, from what I have read. It sounds like two new parents who are struggling. He is behaving like a knob but I wonder what's going on? Mums and dads can become depressed after the birth of a baby. If telling someone to "go fuck themselves" in an argument was abusive then that's my relationship. We always apologise and talk it through. It usually means someone is struggling or unhappy.

Yes you talk to your brother and tell him to buck his ideas up! None of my exes family knew what he was like and if they had it could have stopped things escalating. Your family can guide him to be a good bloke, if they’re not the type to stay out of things and sweep them under the carpet.

Your brother is a piece of shit, isn't he?

Don't confront him. Approach it from a "how are you both doing?" "How is SIL doing?" "It really take a massive load of stress off me when DH cooks/cleans/takes the baby so I can nap. It's impossible to be on the go 24/7."

Make him realise how hard it is without telling him to step up.

@crossstitchingnana

No way is this abusive, from what I have read. It sounds like two new parents who are struggling. He is behaving like a knob but I wonder what's going on? Mums and dads can become depressed after the birth of a baby. If telling someone to "go fuck themselves" in an argument was abusive then that's my relationship. We always apologise and talk it through. It usually means someone is struggling or unhappy.

What do you think abuse looks like then?

@FabriqueBelgique

Yes you talk to your brother and tell him to buck his ideas up! None of my exes family knew what he was like and if they had it could have stopped things escalating. Your family can guide him to be a good bloke, if they’re not the type to stay out of things and sweep them under the carpet.

No. I'm sorry but if this is an abusive relationship, this is really poor advice.

Wow thank you everyone for taking the time to respond.

After reading through the different advice, I’m going to make sure I meet with my SIL regularly to check how things are and to help her around the house. I’ll also tell her she is welcome to my house day or night if needed and to call me if she ever needs help.

I love the ideas of talking to my brother about how my husband helps me when things get too much with being a new mum and hope he takes it in. As some of you have pointed out, I could make it worse by approaching him if he uses it against her. I also like the idea of ‘nagging’ him if I notice he isn’t helping around the house whilst I’m there, so it’s coming directly from me and not involving my SIL.

My brother gets on well with my husband so I might also ask him to take him for a pint/meal out and try to talk about new dad stuff (without obviously bringing anything up) and see if my brother needs support too. If any more concerning incidents occur, I will of course intervene to make sure her and the baby are safe.

I’m sorry to read about other people who have experienced this sort of thing first hand, but thank you so much for your advice

Based on this no. Maybe he’s not acting great but that’s a low bar for “abuse”.
After all if he suddenly stopped talking to her during an argument it would probably be called “the silent treatment” and also classified as “emotional abuse”.

If a woman was upset with/falling out with her husband and didn’t text him to ask how he was doing and show him affection would you classify that as abusive? Would she owe her husband false affection? If not then why would you think your own brother should?

You don’t know how she is acting and how affected by the stress of the baby/hormones she is and how she is with your brother. The fact that you jump immediately to your brother being abusive instead of them nothing needing help really shows your bias toward her and to see men as abusers.

Frankly if I were your brother and you called me abusive for not texting my wife or having an argument with her we wouldn’t be seeing each other much.

@Mogwig

You and your parents would get in there and “sort him out”?
Having (and feeling entitled to) This level of control and interference over your adult brother actually sounds more abusive than anything in OP’s post about her brother.

Op what was your parents' relationship like? You're uniquely placed to know what sort of parent relationship he was modelled. It might even be worth talking (in a conversational rather than pointed way) about how your dad was as the parent if a young baby. If there were any similarities I think it might be worth pointing out to him and you're the only one who can do that.

I do think families should help each other but it's also important to remember you can't actually control any of this. Do what you can without butting in but make sure you're looking after yourself too.

knittingaddict abuse is someone who takes power and control away from someone, through threat and fear. I am not hearing this. Yes, his behaviour is questionable but not abusive.