Ds dad waffling on at him

[TheChip]

Me and ds dad broke up years ago. He is textbook narcissist, but has maintained steady contact throughout. As ds has got older (he is preteen), he has started noticing things about his dad. Like the lies, his manipulation etc.

Anyway, dad himself caused enough confusion with ds that ds stopped contact on his own. Well, dad was refusing to spend time with ds without his new girlfriend. So ds just stopped going. I tried encouraging contact, but it got to the point of where I felt like I wasn't respecting my ds decision.

So, after months, ds decided he wanted to see him again and asked dad if he could. Dad was seemingly over the moon and arranged contact for Friday gone. Only Friday came around and ds excitedly checked his phone after school to see no time had been set. He text his dad asking and got the response "I'm at work. I'll pick you up in the morning and we will go for lunch"
The next day came and dad text ds again to tell him that he is at work and can it be Sun.
Do didn't respond, and I don't blame him to be honest.
No message arranging a time today.

Ds has came to me tonight saying "mam. Dad is going on and on about randomness again"
He showed me the messages and I see that ds had messaged him earlier today and dad said he was once again at work.

Then he has started messaging out of the blue again tonight telling ds that no one dictates his life blah blah blah. Paragraph after paragraph of shit. Basically saying that I have stopped ds from wanting to see him, when I really have not. Ds was even telling dad at the time what the issue was, but dad wouldn't listen. Telling ds that he is a child and can not dictate who he does or doesn't see.

Why did dad arrange to see him on Friday and ask if he was staying the weekend if he knew he was at work, or knew there was a possibility of work. Why after months of not seeing ds has he allowed 3 days of work to take priority?
With the lies he tells its hard to know if work is even happening.

He has even told ds he is upset that he didn't see him at Christmas. Dad invited him but then told ds he wouldn't be home anyway as he was away over Christmas. So again, confused him.

I want to tell ds to tell him to get stuffed, but instead I feel like I have to just sit back and watch.

At which point do I intervene and how do I intervene? Dad is blocked on my end due to him still being abusive towards me 8 years down the line.

I really don't know how to handle this.

Your poor ds. Hes young yet but one day he will realise what a nasty piece of shit his dad is. All you can do is support him

I feel so bad for him. Especially since it has took months for ds to get over what has been bothering him. He reaches out, and dad let's him down. Then instead of owning that he has been shit, he waffles on at him with absolute rubbish that ds struggles to understand.

Maybe it's time for you to intervene?

My gut is telling me it is. I just dont know how or in what way.

I would try civilised first. Invite him for a brew? Explain ds feelings and how he will lose him? If it doesn't work tell him to grow the fuck up and stop emotionally abusing your son

It’s like you are writing about my ex, you know nothing you say will make a difference, your son has the measure of him just be there to support his decision not to see him.

Ask your DS what he wants to do now.
If he says he wants to block his father, support him in the decision - as long as you're sure it's not a knee jerk reaction.
Then unblock Ex and tell them that you are supporting your son when XP has been so unreliable and has upset your DS, then block again.
If DS says he wants to continue contact, help him to frame a message that your DS and you are happy to send.

Block him on ds phone till he gets the stick out of his arse (couple of days break then sit down together and read the mess he sends)

Unblock him on your phone point out to him that he made and broke arrangements with his child so the only one interfering with contact is himself tell him ds is taking a phone break and will be back in touch later this week

I have tried being civilised. It just opens me up to further abuse. I've tried getting along and brushing his abusive outbursts aside for the sake of our son, but I just can't do that anymore.

Do I just carry on doing what I'm doing and support ds with whatever he decides? It's so difficult knowing that what his dad is doing is wrong.
I wish he would just bloody grow up and stop behaving like this.
Its just such a shame.

Ds isn't sure what he wants to do anymore. He feels guilt and confusion.
I'm not even sure myself whether ds wants to see him because he wants to see him, or if he wants to see him because he feels guilty.

I have told him to just think about what he wants to do. Not what he thinks I want him to do, not what he thinks his dad wants him to do. Just what he wants to do.

I will have another chat with him tomorrow. I'll have a look at his phone in the morning to see if more was said after ds showed me.
I think I'm going to take photos of it as well.

I can see that ds is feeling how I used to feel and its really really bothering me.

I'll have another chat to him tomorrow and talk about blocking and see how he feels about it. I was meant to add that into the last part

How did you get on op?

I don't really have any advice but sounds like a typical narc.
I know one with a 12 year old son. He goes on about how much maintenance he pays but when it comes to spending time with him he has admitted he can't be arsed, and they have nothing in common.

Hi, I had a little chat with him. Well, I tried. I think its something he would rather avoid right now.

Ds doesn't feel the need to block him, but knows it is an option if dad does his head in with texts like that again. He still isn't sure about whether he wants to try and see him this weekend, so I'll just have to wait and see for then.

I had a good read of the texts and you would not think it was a parent talking to their child. Dad claimed that there was some explaining that needed to be done, and I think he meant ds had to explain? I'm not sure as he then went on his rant about how "there are people who have limited intelligence trying to get in the way of me seeing you. But these people can't dictate my life. I dont answer to anyone"
Also "I obtain personality traits that are questionable, but I have learned to use them to become a money maker"

I cant remember it all, but it was all like that.
Ds didn't reply other than one "OK" part way through.

Sounds like he decided to punish ds for deciding he didn't want to see him for a while.

There's not much you can do when trying to deal with a big man child like this. Ds1s dad is the same. He rarely sees him at all now he's an adult and didn't bother much from the age of 14. Just be there for ds

How old is your DS?

He is 11 and yes, I agree to dad doing this as a way to punish ds.
Its the only thing that makes sense for why he would arrange 3 days and be unavailable on all of them.

I think you should keep an eye on texts your ex send DS. Sounds like he’s using him as his sounding board for his narcissistic ways. Saying about traits making him a money maker is hardly appropriate chat to a pre- teen. His dad should be taking him to spirts events, things your lad is interested in — that would be a healthier relationship. The text sounds wearing and not at all what a child should have to be involved in.

A difficult situation and I think if DS decides not to see his father then one message to that effect and block. He shouldn’t be allowed to do any more harm.

What a horrible situation.

I'm sure you are already doing this but be sure to validate your son's feelings and not bite your tongue too much! I grew up with someone in my life who treated me badly, my parents took a very neutral, hands-off 'one day BabyInTheJungle will work it out for herself'. I did, but there was decades of damage done meantime. I needed protection and validation that the hurt I felt was OK and I shouldn't have to endure it over and over. All it would have taken was my parents to confirm that the person was acting badly and hurting me.

Sorry if that's condescending - I just vowed that I would be honest with my own children about the behaviour of others (without just badmouthing someone for the sake of it).

I think 11 is old enough to tell him about narcissists and other personality disorders ir at least, emotionally healthy vs unhealthy behaviours. You don't need to use his dads behaviour as an example. Let him join his own dots.

Tell him it's something he should look out for throughout life as if he can spot abusive ppl and bullies early, he can avoid them better. Send him links to articles where he will recognise the behaviours. Peak his interest and let him learn fir himself.

Also, when he tells you things his dad does just listen and show empathy. Don't say things like 'your dad loves you really' Or try to excuse the behaviours as this can be very damaging to your child. You don't want him to excuse cruelty because someone 'apparently' loves him.

Hopefully in his terns he'll decide to tell the cunt to sod off. But the sooner he can learn about toxic ppl, the better.

*in his teens

Yes, what pinkbonbon said! Put it better than me x 1 million

Sounds a lot like my DHs father. I wish I could go back in time to when DH was a child and point out just how shitty his dad’s behaviour was, how he was cruel and manipulative. Instead he was left to come to his own conclusion which meant for years he was drifting thinking he could fix things, he could be better, that somehow he was at fault. The hang ups from this have followed him into adult hood. Maybe take your son to therapy that gets him to that conclusion quicker and with no guilt. Don’t let him spend years figuring out these complicated adult failings for himself.

I will definitely be keeping an eye on the texts.
There have been a few times he has used ds as a sounding board.

I have at times explained to ds that dad used to do similar to me and how it didn't feel very nice etc. And when he didn't show on any of the days just gone I had said things like "that must feel quite frustrating. I would be annoyed if someone did that to me"

But I havent gone in depth about personality traits and such. I hope I have been validating enough with how I have been as I do know its important to not sugar coat his dads behaviour, but equally important to not reach a stage of where I'm bad mouthing him too.

The idea to discuss personality traits and MH to help ds connect the dots is brilliant. I will most definitely do that! I have taught him about manipulation because dad tries to use that a lot. But I've struggled to figure out how to talk about other stuff without sounding like im bad mouthing his dad. So teaching him that is a brilliant idea.

That is part of the reason ds stopped seeing dad. Because he was constantly bad mouthing me.

I think you need to explain to bite the bullet sit with your DS and explain his father is mentally unwell.

These sound like mentally unwell ramblings tbh.

And I'd arrange for him to speak to a professional who specialises in active councelling / boundaries with narcs / not sure what you need.

But basically someone who is neutral and can help him guide him through these situations and advocate for himself and make informed choices...