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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Toxic/narcissistic parents

38 replies

lovenotwar149 · 04/02/2022 10:10

Hi, anyone got any experience in handling toxic/narcissistic parents? I am 53 and have children who are all independent of me now. I was brought up in a highly domestically violent household. The impact for me was pretty bad at times growing up but ironically , through this amazing personal development journey I am on, things have drastically improved for me personally and with my husband and 3 adult sons. I have most definitely broken a cycle. My struggle is, my parents live very close and are old now, and although slowly but surely over the years I have stood up and strengthened my boundaries, I question my obligation/duty towards them now. Whilst the level of abuse (verbal/emotional) has declined towards me when I am in their company, it hasn't completely stopped. When they behave in this way, I make my excuses and leave their home. My father still behaves abusively towards other ppl in his house that I may happen to witness if I am there. I struggle with this as I start to feel very uncomfortable. I am now at a stage where when I visit, it is for a VERY limited time (half hr) or I dont visit for several wks. I do feel guilty about this as my parents 'expect' their children to visit them regularly. Any thoughts would be very appreciated. Thank you.

OP posts:
MzHz · 04/02/2022 10:20

You’re absolutely doing the right things

They can expect all they like, perhaps they’re finally going to learn how you catch more flies with honey and all that and/or natural consequences to their appalling behaviour

Don’t feel a shred of guilt, do exactly what you want to do in your best interests and those of your own family.

Good for you for being able to grow and put down boundaries!

lovenotwar149 · 04/02/2022 10:28

Thank you so much for your reply. In my GUT (which is what I am going with) I couldn't agree more with what you say. Yet, that 'voice' inside me that I catch says...'you SHOULD spend time with your M&D, they've done so much for you, you're so selfish thinking of yourself and not your elderly parents.' etc etc It's those words that manifest behaviour in me that sends me round to their house again. But those visits are becoming less and less often now. Interestingly I have notices that the more out of my life they are the better I am doing. Thank you again.

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ElectraBlue · 04/02/2022 10:30

Toxic/narcissistic people rarely change...

I don't think I could stand to see someone being abusive to others in my presence without saying/doing anything. Because I would think that me doing so would be condoning the behaviour.

I personally ended cutting all contact with my toxic parents. They were based in a different country though so I think it is likely to be more difficult for you if you live so close to them.

But I don't think you should tolerate any abuse towards yourself either. Toxic parents think they can behave anyway they want simply due to family ties without facing any consequences and are very good about guilt-tripping others. I would call their bluff and said if any of the abuse carries on you will stop visiting.

Also, you need to think about what will happen when you parents get even older and might start expected you to care for them.

For your own protection I would start detaching yourself from them now and get some counselling to support you. Because if you stay in this abusive situation, it will only get worse and they will try to guilt trip you to care for them when frankly you owe them nothing...

AttilaTheMeerkat · 04/02/2022 10:32

This type of familial dysfunction and abuse often goes down the generations so it is to your credit you have chosen not to repeat it in your own family unit.

Why do you visit them now; its likely because of inbuilt conditioning and perhaps on some level societal convention. Are you the only one that bothers with them at all, do your other siblings not see them?. Its also not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist in any event.

Your parents installed those fear, obligation and guilt buttons in you and they know how to press them. They have not changed; they were young and abusive and now they are old and abusive towards you. Your mother stayed with him for her own reasons and she chose him over you people as her now adult children. She continues to enable her husband for her own reasons. They have failed you as their now adult children abjectly.

I would continue to question your feelings of obligation and guilt also through therapy with a BACP registered therapist. Interview such people carefully and at length before committing to any particular one. These people are like shoes and you need to find someone who fits in with your own approach. It may also benefit you to have a read and post on the current "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

inheritancetrack · 04/02/2022 10:36

You owe them nothing. They were all adults when they brought you up and responsible for their actions and the affect in you. You've moved on mentally and healed yourself as best you can away from their influence. They show no real signs of regret or remorse for what they did. I would tell them you will not contact them again and want nothing more to do with either of them.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 04/02/2022 10:41

Same here OP, the only solution is to cut off contact as much as possible and keep it to an absolute minimum. I moved hundreds of miles away and its such a relief.
I was always stressed and upset when I lived near them.
I was recently diagnosed with complex PTSD which my psychiatrist said I have had for up to 50 years, I'm in my sixties now.
I simply cannot afford to interact with them because it sets off depressive episodes that last for weeks.
This way I can relax and get on with my own life.
What you have to realise is that they will never ever change and that you are not responsible for them no matter how old they are.

lovenotwar149 · 04/02/2022 10:44

Thank you for replies. I have 2 other sisters who they abuse but who haven't stood up them. They are not open to this discussion , I think it would be too painful for them. In 2013 when my father crossed a line BIGTIME with me I cut off contact with them for a few months. My sisters did not support this at the time and my older sister blames me from time to time for this to this day. The last time she brought this up with me , I courageously put an end to it and she hasn't brought it up since. I am certain I am spoken about unkindly behind my back, but that doesn't bother me anymore. My parents have a good amount of control over my 2 sisters and their 3 grandchildren from my older sister. Fortunately my own 3 sons can stand up to them when they cross a line as they have witnessed me standing up to them on a number of occasions now.

OP posts:
lovenotwar149 · 04/02/2022 10:48

Re inheritance track ...'you owe them nothing'
That comment, I am glad you wrote it tbh, but that comment is like asking me (with the conditioning I have had from my M&D from age dot) to learn to walk backwards now. But I am making progress.

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Cherrysoup · 04/02/2022 14:24

I don’t know why you still contact (well, I do, I have found it impossible to go nc with my not so dm). I certainly wouldn’t take my dc there to be abused.

You owe them nothing, they have not ‘done so much for you’. They should not have abused you, they didn’t have the right to do that.

MzHz · 04/02/2022 15:06

You know that inner voice isn’t your voice, it’s theirs.

What good do they do you? You’re seeing that they’re it doing you any good at all

The less contact I have with my family, the better. I’m in the same boat and @AttilaTheMeerkat knows only too well that even now I wobble and she reminds me that I’m on a hiding to nothing and that I’ll never have the parents I want or deserve.

I’m happy now. Better than that actually, I’m content. Content with everything I have, with the people in my life and those I don’t, and content with what I do. I don’t miss my family. It never really existed I miss what it could have been, so I’ll make my own life, with people who love me and add to it, to inspire my ds and bumble through life with the loveliest man in the world.

MzHz · 04/02/2022 15:07

I also found therapy invaluable! Incest in yourself, you’re so worth it!

I’m so glad you have your boys, you’ve done a great job there and broken the chain.

MzHz · 04/02/2022 15:07

Invest! Bloody auto correct!

Sorry 🤣😂

lovenotwar149 · 04/02/2022 17:15

Thank you for further replies, it's good to get other peoples perspective on it. I definitely do INVEST (lol) in myself now as I truly believe I am worth it. That's been a massive step forward for me. so whilst I do if I honest with myself, still visit out of guilt, I sure am quick to say NO (words to that effect) if ...or rather when , they step over my boundary. Interestingly, as my pop in visits are approx half hour visits only now, they dont really step over the line. Occasionally I get sucked in when they turn on their charm and then I stay longer and its in those times when the abuse inevitably starts again. I am wiser now, and getting wiser every day.

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Newgirls · 04/02/2022 17:29

It is totally normal for siblings to deal with their parents in dif ways. They might not have experienced them in the same way or may not have your strong family today. Toxic parents then divide and rule.

I agree counselling is the way - to protect your relationship with your siblings too.

SaltBaesPonytail · 04/04/2022 19:09

Hi there, there are many wise replies here so I’ll only add my story in case it resonates with you.

I’m a psychiatrist and I realised far too late that my father is autistic. My mother is also on the spectrum, but she is extremely high functioning. My father was a brilliant parent until I started expressing opinions and desires that challenged his preconceived thoughts. From then on he had somewhat regular meltdowns when we disagreed, some involved physical violence, others involved telling me how much he regretted having me. My mother was conditioned to believe his behaviour was normal and so enabled him. She would often tell me how much happier their marriage was before I was born and therefore mustn’t I realise how terrible a person I was, etc. From around age 4 onwards.

My father died - much to my relief - after his advanced age led to his symptoms worsening and him verbally abusing neighbours, shop staff, doctors, anyone who didn’t provide what he demanded immediately. My mother, however, has also experienced a worsening in her symptoms. She is unable to understand what she feels when she is flustered, rushed, fearful, sad, embarrassed, etc. This leads to striking empathy fails and what looks like emotionally abusive behaviour.

Is it at all possible that there’s a neurological cause to your parents’ poor treatment of you?

Very few autistic children show any sign of being capable of becoming abusive adults, but it is not uncommon. There are still difficulties in psychiatric circles in accurately separating narcissism from high functioning autism behaviours where ones self direction & a low frustration tolerance take front and centre position in consciousness, ahead of cognitive empathy for others.

Because many older adults were never offered diagnoses or appropriate therapies / parenting interventions, they’ve never learned to adjust. A meltdown for a young autistic adult nowadays may well involve tears, or walking away, or freezing, but I’ve noticed a huge cultural shift away from verbal abuse.

I hope this info helps.

lovenotwar149 · 11/04/2022 07:10

Thank you

OP posts:
Mary46 · 11/04/2022 09:05

I find visits hard op. I tell her little. Strict boundaries. Negative. Draining listen to her. She minded her mother. You get the picture. Sorry you going through this.

Datada · 11/04/2022 09:28

Well done for breaking the cycle! You have done amazingly well. Your mental health is a priority. If this means going no contact, or low contact, that is your right. After all they put you through, you deserve some peace and serenity. Would you consider moving away from them?

prickferrari · 11/04/2022 11:21

You are as important as them, their wants don't trump yours. It would be immoral to expect someone who had been abused by someone when they were a child to spend time with that person so any time you do spend with them is already selfless in the extreme. Also would you want someone who didn't want to spend time with you to still do it? No. A psychologically healthy person wouldn't like that and would work to make them enjoy their time with you. That's what I want for my relationships, that they are all spontaneously beneficial and mutual and I extend that reasoning to others.

AntelopeBeau · 11/04/2022 12:32

I concur with alot of what SaltBaes says. I think there are some not-understood genetic correlations.

However, I believe it barely matters the cause. You don't have to put up with it, or put yourself through it further. After all the abuse, you deserve to protect yourself and put yourself first. Sounds like you are doing the absolute right thing by minimising contact and leaving as soon as you detect any poor behaviour emerging. I also agree you owe them nothing, given your experience.

To your last question, maybe your parents "expect" all kinds of things from you. But they will just have to get used to your own decided lower contact levels etc. They will get used to it. If they abuse you further as a result, you can step back even more.

SaltBaesPonytail · 11/04/2022 14:23

@AntelopeBeau is right. Even if your dad was like mine the only thing you can take away from that is that it isn’t personal (even when it feels like it very much is!)

Also true that the outcome is much the same. You do not owe anyone, parent or otherwise, an opportunity to hurt you.

I hope things improve in some way 💛

Hbh17 · 11/04/2022 14:29

Just stop visiting them!

lovenotwar149 · 11/04/2022 14:47

Thank you so much for further replies,I have re read them all and I will do so again when I need to.

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lovenotwar149 · 01/06/2022 16:59

So I'm back again on the same topic. I have made ALOT of progress and the pop in visits to my M&D are up to almost 3 weeks apart now. Nocalls in between and perhaps the odd text msg. I popped in today after almost 3 weeks. I arrived , my dad was out and my mum said within 2/3 mins....'Please dye your hair, please dye your hair, do it for me, please.'
Background: I have got grey hair now, since lockdown and I really like it. From the start of going grey, she most def let me know what a terrible idea it was (she is 82 and still dyeing). She has commented on it in many ways e.g. Will Dave (my hubby) still be interested if you go grey? Would you be confident to got wedding like that? Why have you let yourself go? to name just a few. I after a few comments back where I stood my ground, I most firmly and assertively told her as politely as could today nothing about my grey hair anymore.I told her I liked it and if she didn't fine, but pls keep your comments to yourself etc. She did this for months although when I popped in I felt her eyes staring at my hair etc I ignored it but inside it hurt I have to say. Today left me with my jaw hanging. I took control and asserted my boundary, told her I loved her and said I would've as I am feeling very hurt and I would return another time. She tried to guilt trip me to stay and tried to turn it on me..it didn't wash AT ALL (there's the progress) and I left.
What now?? I went today as the guilt built up in me.
Please bear in mind , I know I am 53 very soon, but abuse like this that has gone on for yrs and yrs (and is still going on) and with the cultural narrative that goes 'you have to look after us when we get old, after everything we have done for you' I am finding it very hard to cut off completely. Any comments would be appreciated, many thanks

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lovenotwar149 · 01/06/2022 17:10

Guess the answer is to not give away my power and allow her or anyone else to hurt me. Oh my...more work to do!

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