Previously unfaithful now acting suspicious, can you help me?

[GHJKL]

I'll try and keep this short.

Together for years years and have children together including baby.

He has been unfaithful before and I very reluctantly gave him another chance. I suspect that has come back to bite me on the arse.

Last night I walked into the bedroom to find him on his phone, the second I entered the room he locked his screen in a hurry.

I asked what he was doing he said he was setting his alarm clock. I asked why he needed to hide that and lock his phone and his reply was "I don't. I'm not hiding anything" but I could tell by his tone he was flustered. Like a rabbit caught in the head lights.

I didn't ask to see his phone on the spot which I should have done with hindsight because now he's had chance to delete whatever he was hiding.

Now, I won't stand for this shit again and am bracing myself to get rid but I want proof of what he's up to before I kick him out as I'll be leaving myself in a difficult situation with youngest still being a small baby among other things.

If it's something like deleting porn from his history that doesn't bother me, but he knows I'm not bothered about things like that so he needn't try cover his tracks. My gut tells me it's more.

He doesn't really go anywhere other than work (the previous affair was a colleague at previous place of work) so if he is up to something it must be another colleague, or he's bunking off work.

What do I do now?

Please don't immediately jump to LTB, because I will if I'm able to prove my instincts are correct, I just need to know for sure.

@GHJKL

He has offered to show me his browser history which will supposedly show me that he was looking at porn at the point I came in and caught him acting strangely.

He could have easily accessed porn as soon as I left the room though couldn't he, just so he had plausible deniability when I brought it up again.

He has resorted to trying to make me sound unreasonable when I haven't immediately dropped the issue, saying things like "it's not a crime to look at porn and feel embarrassed about it. I didn't feel comfortable admitting it on the spot" to then saying "I might aswell just not have a phone then if I need permission to use it"

Twisting it back around on me as though I don't have due cause to be suspicious.

At no point have I ever implied he needs permission to use the phone or look at porn.

Browser history is easy to manipulate. You can selectively erase compromising history and you can use private browsing. Actually, a bigger sign he's up to something is an unusual gap in his browsing history rather than anything on there. That indicates he's block deleted browsing sessions when he's been up to something or he's used private browsing.

Porn - I find it a bit tacky but I don't really consider it cheating so I'll leave that to others to say more about.

I could give you a whole list of things you can do (and things you shouldn't) to catch a cheat but I'm not going to because @Skeumorph is giving you the best advice here.

You don't trust him. You probably never will.

I would expect him to hand his phone over and let you have a check through it.

The thing is, if he is up to something, he’s going to be extremely vigilant now about deleting messages and hiding evidence. I’m sure he’d be fine with handing his phone over at the moment, he’s had a good chance to check and wipe anything that needs to be gone.

I’ve worked in a job where colleagues were having affairs and it wouldn’t have affected their normal routine at home one bit - a half days annual leave here and there that they don’t tell their partner about, booking themselves ‘out’ at a meeting ‘off site’ for a couple of hours, lunch breaks, sneaky early finishes.

If he is up to something I think it’s going to take a month or so for him to relax a bit with his phone now. Given that he’s previously had an affair I think it’s perfectly acceptable to give it 6 weeks or so then say “I’m feeling paranoid and suspicious because of your previous affair, can I have a look at your phone please?”. I have done this myself and I can assure you that his reaction will tell you all you need to know. My ex went crazy, stormed off out for half an hour, then came back and threw his phone on the sofa and told me I was welcome to look. I pointed him in the direction of the binnag of his stuff I’d gathered up while he was out.

@ChimpMcGarvey

I would expect him to hand his phone over and let you have a check through it.

The thing is, if he is up to something, he’s going to be extremely vigilant now about deleting messages and hiding evidence. I’m sure he’d be fine with handing his phone over at the moment, he’s had a good chance to check and wipe anything that needs to be gone.

I’ve worked in a job where colleagues were having affairs and it wouldn’t have affected their normal routine at home one bit - a half days annual leave here and there that they don’t tell their partner about, booking themselves ‘out’ at a meeting ‘off site’ for a couple of hours, lunch breaks, sneaky early finishes.

If he is up to something I think it’s going to take a month or so for him to relax a bit with his phone now. Given that he’s previously had an affair I think it’s perfectly acceptable to give it 6 weeks or so then say “I’m feeling paranoid and suspicious because of your previous affair, can I have a look at your phone please?”. I have done this myself and I can assure you that his reaction will tell you all you need to know. My ex went crazy, stormed off out for half an hour, then came back and threw his phone on the sofa and told me I was welcome to look. I pointed him in the direction of the binnag of his stuff I’d gathered up while he was out.

This is good advice if there is children involved (although don't do it in front of the kids) because if you divorce with children you will want more certainty that you are doing the right thing. Lulling cheats into a false sense of security (e.g. become very predictable in your own routines, be nice to their face, talk about the future etc) is quite a useful way to put their guard down and do something stupid or careless. However, at the same time, technology is making it harder and harder to catch a cheat. The favoured apps of cheats all leave no trace when the app is closed.

Personally I would say based on my experience, during which time I did stupid things I'm not proud of like checking my STBXW's internet history and once using my car's tracker to find out where she was, is just leave now. Otherwise you might turn into a person you don't like.

Op I don’t have much to offer here other than to say that I totally understand your position re feeling you need proof. you’ve already put yourself and the kids through a separation. If you’re going to go down that route again you want firm evidence as you know there’ll be no going back this time. And there’s a lot to potentially lose.

@Philly1234

Op I don’t have much to offer here other than to say that I totally understand your position re feeling you need proof. you’ve already put yourself and the kids through a separation. If you’re going to go down that route again you want firm evidence as you know there’ll be no going back this time. And there’s a lot to potentially lose.

You have worded it much better than I did, this is exactly it - thank you (and to everybody else for taking the time to reply!)

He's acting like nothing has happened now meanwhile I've been stressed and upset all day.

In the heat of the moment he said he'll just smash the phone up so I don't keep thinking he's upto things on it.

That hurt because it's my dad's.

I don't believe he would smash it, he's never done anything of the sort before, he's just being an arse.

I'm going to do as suggested, let him think it's blown over in the hope (If he is doing something) he gets complacent.

Then in a few weeks I'm going to spring it on him and say I want to see the phone there and then.

Any stalling tactics or deflection and I'll know for sure he's hiding something because I made clear today that I wasn't bothered about porn.

I get you need proof, I was the same as I knew my dh wouldn't admit to anything unless I had proof, he'd then play the victim if I ltb, it took me 2 weeks to find that proof, but for me it was worth it. I admit I acted like a loon and every time he left his phone unattended I would quickly check? I turned into MI5, with my snooping so I found out who it was etc before I had the proof. But one night he got up for a wee and I quickly checked his phone, there was 1 sent message he'd forgotten to delete sent just before he went to bed that gave me lol the proof I needed.

As you've already said, leave it a few weeks until he thinks it's all blown over then just keep checking

@GHJKL

I'm going to do as suggested, let him think it's blown over in the hope (If he is doing something) he gets complacent.

Then in a few weeks I'm going to spring it on him and say I want to see the phone there and then.

Any stalling tactics or deflection and I'll know for sure he's hiding something because I made clear today that I wasn't bothered about porn.

Have you checked any other devices he uses to see if Google is logged on? Google tracks internet history separately to his browser and will also tell you if he's using any apps that are favoured by cheats. Don't hack him though, that's not legal, but if he's left it open then it's fair game.

When you've taken time to digest his recent behaviour please give yourself permission to do whatever the fuck you want to do without feeling guilt over what it will do to him.

Your truth is that he has cheated. That he has been given grace by you and that his current behaviour doesn't reflect that at all. He wouldn't be so aggressive in his responses to you if he felt any remorse. He prefers to maintain his idea of his autonomy to maintaining your relationship.

That is unreasonable behaviour, if you choose it to be. Allow yourself to at least consider that... that you are allowed to think badly of him regardless if the truth of his current behaviour.

For goodness sake have some dignity. If you feel the need to check, the trust is gone, it won't return. In my experience when they stray once, they will do it again. And believe me, I have experience

@GHJKL

I forgave my STBXW after the first few times I caught her cheating (I know, I'm a mug). The danger though is the longer you put up with it the worse you might become as a person yourself. I did things I am not proud of out of a desperation to seek the truth including letting her use my car when there was a tracker on it (even though I only did it once, on my own car and caught her in the act I still feel deeply, deeply uncomfortable about what I did now I have my sanity back. Anyone who wants to call me a creep is quite welcome to do so, I have no defence). I also became very on edge, unable to sleep and used to jump inside every time I heard her phone ping. Like a poster above said:

This is no way to live

However, I equally understand your predicament because you have young children. For me, I thought my discovery of her cheating could mean only seeing my children EOW (I've been reassured this is unlikely), for you it might mean being left as a single parent most of the time. The stakes are high and you want to be certain the risk is based on sound knowledge.

There are some ways you can do this. Don't put a tracker on his car. Legally its a grey area and doing it once, on a car you jointly own to catch him out probably wouldn't get you in to trouble. However, it could still be blown out of all proportion if you have a divorce with court proceedings on childcare arrangements. That's a risk I now carry when I could easily have just divorced her based on what I already knew.

Better ways are:

1. Check the mileage of his car and then check it again the next day. Is it roughly in line with where he said he was going to be?

2. Look on a device you share with him and see if he is logged on to something like Google. Google accounts and the like tend to record a browsing history, app use and location tracker separate to his internet browsing history. Do not hack your way in, only look if it is already open.

3. Don't keep a regular routine. Cheats like routine so they can cheat at those times. Surprise him for lunch at work, arrive home early. Take a day off with work and then tell him you're off sick. Etc.

4. Does he take his phone everywhere with him including the loo? Make fun of him for it and gauge his reaction.

5. Check the bank accounts. Are there any weird purchases or large cash withdrawals?

If all of the above aligns, then get a friend to help you catch him out. Get them, rather than you, to be where he says he will be and find out if he turns up.

Fabswingers is where you need to look. That's the cheaters website of choice because you're less likely to get one of the wife's friends stumbling across your profile. Make a dummy profile and then do a profile search using your postcode, his rough age and see if he comes up.

Also, this should reinforce that your gut instinct is spot on. Do not let him gaslight you. You knew what you saw and you were right.

@DaisyStPatience

Also, this should reinforce that your gut instinct is spot on. Do not let him gaslight you. You knew what you saw and you were right.

This is very good advice. Trust your instinct or like me you'll start taking more questionable methods that skirt on the edge of legality (e.g. car trackers) to prove to yourself you are not going mad.

You have no trust in your relationship. This is enough reason.

@Didimum

You have no trust in your relationship. This is enough reason.

I do empathise with the OP for wanting more certain evidence. Children do change matters somewhat. Even if leaving is what is best for us, we have to also ensure that it is done for the right reasons in their interest.

That said, based on my experience, leaving because of a lack of trust is a good enough reason in the end. Just easier if you know they've lied again.

I empathise with needing more info. And it seems like the most direct approach is the one you need....as in. He needs to hand over his phone. Cheaters who beg to come back dont really get to make the rules about when you're allowed to feel suspicious that they might betray you again. The fact that he hasn't handed over the phone to put this saga to bed I suspect means he's up to something. Your plan sounds solid, let it blow over and then spring it on him.

Lots of good advice and suggestions here thank you. I'm glad some can understand why it's important to me to be sure.

Those of you who have been through the same, I'm sorry. It hurts so much and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.

I'm going to wait until he's asleep and look for him on the sites mentioned. I hadn't heard of fabswingers before today. Christ.

He doesn't use Facebook (so he says) but has an account on there dormant. Last visible activity was 2017. I'm not ruling out the possibility of an alias account though.

He doesn't have WhatsApp anymore. He uninstalled it in a bid to show me he was commited to fixing things last time. WhatsApp was the primary mode of contact with the OW.

@GHJKL

Lots of good advice and suggestions here thank you. I'm glad some can understand why it's important to me to be sure.

Those of you who have been through the same, I'm sorry. It hurts so much and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.

I'm going to wait until he's asleep and look for him on the sites mentioned. I hadn't heard of fabswingers before today. Christ.

He doesn't use Facebook (so he says) but has an account on there dormant. Last visible activity was 2017. I'm not ruling out the possibility of an alias account though.

He doesn't have WhatsApp anymore. He uninstalled it in a bid to show me he was commited to fixing things last time. WhatsApp was the primary mode of contact with the OW.

WhatsApp is a crap app for cheating because you have to manually delete the messages. He's probably got Signal, Kik, SnapChat, Viber or Telegram now.

Again, you can use Google to find out which apps he has installed on each device if you can access his account (but also, again, you can't hack. He has to have left it open).

He may delete WhatsApp and reinstall it each day.

Why are you putting yourself through this OP

Op I understand your urge for proof - having dc does change things with that.

Personally I'd accept his offer of looking at his browsing history and if it does show porn at the time you walked in, I'd pretend to be reassured.

Then I'd bide my time for at least a month, then require him to hand over his phone without warning. No leaving the room - right here right now.

That's if you can't get access to it in the meantime. If you can do that, do it. Check EVERY app as cheaters have been known to have messaging apps disguised as all sorts. Calculator seems to be a common one, I've also heard radio.

If he hands his phone over, you can also go onto Google Play > My account (icon top right) > Manage apps and device > Manage. That will get you a list of all installed apps. The default sort order is "recently updated" - change that to "Most used" and you'll see, well, exactly that.

Again I recommend you don't do this now. He may have spent time today frantically deleting. I'd give him time to let his guard down.

If you do kick him out can you cope financially and with childcare?

@GHJKL

He has offered to show me his browser history which will supposedly show me that he was looking at porn at the point I came in and caught him acting strangely.

He could have easily accessed porn as soon as I left the room though couldn't he, just so he had plausible deniability when I brought it up again.

He has resorted to trying to make me sound unreasonable when I haven't immediately dropped the issue, saying things like "it's not a crime to look at porn and feel embarrassed about it. I didn't feel comfortable admitting it on the spot" to then saying "I might aswell just not have a phone then if I need permission to use it"

Twisting it back around on me as though I don't have due cause to be suspicious.

At no point have I ever implied he needs permission to use the phone or look at porn.

But it is a crime to have an affair. So he should of immediately admitted it and said ‘sorry you made me jump I was looking at porn’ …. Cheating and you have a baby - to be honest I’d be wanting him off his phone and changing the baby - doesn’t sound like he has his priorities safe!

cheaters have been known to have messaging apps disguised as all sorts

Yep, they even use sites like Mumsnet, basically any website with a private messaging facility.

@GHJKL

Lots of good advice and suggestions here thank you. I'm glad some can understand why it's important to me to be sure.

Those of you who have been through the same, I'm sorry. It hurts so much and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.

I'm going to wait until he's asleep and look for him on the sites mentioned. I hadn't heard of fabswingers before today. Christ.

He doesn't use Facebook (so he says) but has an account on there dormant. Last visible activity was 2017. I'm not ruling out the possibility of an alias account though.

He doesn't have WhatsApp anymore. He uninstalled it in a bid to show me he was commited to fixing things last time. WhatsApp was the primary mode of contact with the OW.

He can customise his posts on Facebook so certain friends ( ie you) can't see them if he's that way inclined. Worth bearing in mind