Different attitudes to money. Keep it separate?

[southeastlady]

My husband and I have totally different attitudes to money, he would quite happily spend everything, get into debt on overdrafts and credit cards and probably wouldnt pay into a pension if I didnt do it for him (he's self employed)

I like to save up for things, invest spare money, never had an overdraft, you get the idea.

Currently all money goes into one account (which is just in my name) and I transfer spends to him

He's meant to have £80 a week as our house needs a lot doing to it and I'm fed up of living in a dump!

Just looked in the bank and since Friday he's spent £200 and its only Monday!
He does earn good money but I feel this is excessive, but he's one of those that if I said no Im not transferring any more to you he'd kick off and say I work long hours you cant keep my own money from me etc etc

I know the general view on here is mainly we're a family all money should go into one pot but I feel like saying keep your bloody money just transfer me your half of the bills and food and if you blow the rest its up to you

Only thing that puts me off doing this is he would get into a load of debt and would have no pension

Help!

@southeastlady

He is self employed sole trader so its not an actual company just him so any tools we buy.

And keep the receipts and include on his tax return as expenses

So he asks that you buy tools out of personal/shared money, but he gets the tax rebate? I fell out with my ex over less (he requested the receipt from a lunch that I PAID FOR so that HE could reclaim 5€ on expenses).

If he wants to take this seriously, maybe his contribution could be to set himself up with a separate account that his business runs out of. At least that would remove a complication from joint finances and prevent you being dragged into his business expenses.

Also, I refer to my above post on the parent-child financial relationship. He just wants you to sort it out so he can just not think about it. As PP have said, any financial tension over him not getting what he wants will also be your problem, and when it comes to savings/retirement/holidays etc., he gets to kick back and enjoy the fruits of your mental load.

He could set up a business account, but I would still need to transfer into it I guess if all income goes into my account?
And he could run up an overdraft on it?

@southeastlady

He could set up a business account, but I would still need to transfer into it I guess if all income goes into my account? And he could run up an overdraft on it?

If he set up a business account, all revenue from and all expenditure for the business should be going into it, removing you from the equation.

Then he can pay himself (and his pension) from the business account, and you get your wish for a standing order for 50% of all household expenses. If he then runs up debt, at least it will be in his name and linked to his business expenditure, but there is no gurantee that this would protect you from his spending habits.

Possible scenarios :

• "there is nothing in the business account, I can't pay myself and therefore you" and you end up subbing him for houseold expenses.
• there is nothing in the business account, I can't contribute to holidays or the work on the house" and you end up having crap holidays and a crap house, or paying his part.
• in the case of a divorce, you would be partially protected from debt in his name, BUT ONLY if you can demonstrate that you didn't know about it and didn't benefit from it. He could easily say that he ran up debt in a business that was helping to support the household and you may end up having to pay for his financial hardship post-divorce.

I think putting rules in place about what happens to his earning is key. My in-laws are like this, they get paid £40k for a job and fritter it, then need money for petrol 2 months later, it never occurs to them to put aside even 10% of their earnings. So I would suggest saying that X amount from work goes back into the business (for tools, supplies, petrol etc), X amount goes on the household expenses - to you, and then he can do what he wants with the rest but no debt.

And if you can't trust him not to run up debt then divorce is the best option for you, and him. I think if he gets a credit card in his name and he runs it up, then you are liable for the repayments because you are married and "but he understood it was his debt" doesn't cut it with the repayment company and there is no guarantee he will stay true to his word if he promises all debt is his. If he runs up £100k do you really think he'll walk away with that debt? Or do you think he'll get all the money he can out of you to pay it off as he walks away? I'd say the latter. Protect yourself.

Have personal bank accounts where your salary goes. Savings accounts separate from one another. Also a joint account which you both transfer a set amount into to pay all joint monthly bills.

I have a similar situation with my husband. He is hopeless with money, it just seems to trickle away with nothing to show for it, regularly overdrawn or paying credit card interest despite earning a really decent salary. (The punchline: he's an accountant.)

I can explain how we manage it and what has worked.

1. We have a joint account for all household costs including child related expenses.
2. We pay in set proportionate amounts to that account by DD every month. (In fact mine is lower than it should be because of 5 below).
3. The sums we pay in builds in a cushion for unforseen emergencies I.e boiler repairs, and a holiday fund.
4. Anything other than that is in our personal accounts and ours to spend or save as we want. We do both earn full time professional salaries. If this was badly imbalanced we might have needed to consider a more equal split of spends. My salary is actually higher (and my contribution to joint account lower) but this is adjusted by 5 below.
5. I pay from my personal funds all household renovation costs (3 year project so far and not quite finished). I also cover any family days out and the bulk of Christmas and birthday costs.

When the renovation is complete I will probably up my contribution to joint account but it kind of makes sense for now to access these funds from my personal account (lots of contractors like cash etc.) Also, my husband knows the funds in the joint account are not for personal spends but I do wonder if they built up to a nice surplus he might be tempted to suggest we dip into it and convince ourselves that the next phase of the renovation can wait. If it's in my account he doesn't think about it.

We've mentioned to people that this is what we do and some are horrified that we are married and don't completely share everything but it does work for us (most of the time). We are still happy together after nearly 27 years.

Occasionally I do feel a bit resentful that I always have to be the responsible one and occasionally I do get the odd "controlling" comment. But mainly its fine. We are just very different.

Bloody hell, just seen that various posters have advised divorce. Bit harsh!

The financially smart thing to do here would be to divorce him - even if you stay as partners.

I think this is right. He'll drag you down financially, OP.

This would drive me mad , sounds like he is acting like a teenager blowing that amount in one weekend and racking up overdrafts . It's so so hard when couples have opposing views on money and I can see why you transfer him money seeing as thou he spends it like he has an endless pot! Will he not engage in a chat about a savings plan for you both so you can do up the house ?

So he's a contractor who does a physical job

So does he have any health insurance ? Because if god forbid he has an accident and can't work, then everything is on you for ever sorry op

@honeylulu

Bloody hell, just seen that various posters have advised divorce. Bit harsh!

It would be harsh if it was the first port of call. But OP has tried to deal with this as part of a mature partnership:

Tried to sit down with him to discuss money/budgets numerous times, he will not engage with it or doesnt listen

• and has got nowhere. What he wants is to be carried - to have his cash for fun, like a teenager, but not have to even listen to any of the responsibilities of bills/mortage costs.

You CANNOT exist with someone like that in a partnership - what they want is to suck your blood - both emotionally and financially. Even if not actually in a malicious way.

The only way to maintain a good relationship where you aren't being taken for a ride is to be financially separate. You can't do that if married.

So yes, divorce isn't harsh. It's the logical option sadly.

Does he bother saving to pay his tax?

Hopefully he is on CIS or something similar so he won't end up in the shit. If so, what does he do with the rebate he gets each year?

Tried to sit down with him to discuss money/budgets numerous times, he will not engage with it or doesnt listen
Yep. When I saw a PP's advice to "sit down with him and work out....," I thought "That won't work."
He's set you up in the role of mummy to him because that's how he wants it to be, and you won't get far by assuming that you want the same thing, no matter how reasonable that thing is.
I really hope you can work it out somehow, and I'd love to know how you do it if you do. I've only ever managed it by getting a new boyfriend. But as you're already married to him you should prepare for the worst-case long-term scenario as PPs are advising.

@southeastlady

I agree its ridiculous, it was his idea for me to keep all the money the last time he ran up a £1,500 overdraft (for the 3rd time)

I said to him a couple of weeks ago why dont you just have all your wages in your own account and just transfer to me half the bills and food but he said no as he would just get into a mess.

@southeastlady Could he go for financial counselling and also therapy for developing self control? Overspending that much must be some sort of addiction. I can never understand "adults" who are like this.

He will not engage in budgeting because he knows you will do it for him.

He knows you are worried about getting into debt and he uses that fear to stay a financial child and get you to deal with it all for him.

The tricky thing is as you’re married, if he gets into debt it very much is your problem as well, all adults should have access to the money that they earn. He needs to take responsibility and seek outside help if he is unable to manage his money.

@honeylulu

I have a similar situation with my husband. He is hopeless with money, it just seems to trickle away with nothing to show for it, regularly overdrawn or paying credit card interest despite earning a really decent salary. (The punchline: he's an accountant.)

I can explain how we manage it and what has worked.

1. We have a joint account for all household costs including child related expenses.
2. We pay in set proportionate amounts to that account by DD every month. (In fact mine is lower than it should be because of 5 below).
3. The sums we pay in builds in a cushion for unforseen emergencies I.e boiler repairs, and a holiday fund.
4. Anything other than that is in our personal accounts and ours to spend or save as we want. We do both earn full time professional salaries. If this was badly imbalanced we might have needed to consider a more equal split of spends. My salary is actually higher (and my contribution to joint account lower) but this is adjusted by 5 below.
5. I pay from my personal funds all household renovation costs (3 year project so far and not quite finished). I also cover any family days out and the bulk of Christmas and birthday costs.

When the renovation is complete I will probably up my contribution to joint account but it kind of makes sense for now to access these funds from my personal account (lots of contractors like cash etc.) Also, my husband knows the funds in the joint account are not for personal spends but I do wonder if they built up to a nice surplus he might be tempted to suggest we dip into it and convince ourselves that the next phase of the renovation can wait. If it's in my account he doesn't think about it.

We've mentioned to people that this is what we do and some are horrified that we are married and don't completely share everything but it does work for us (most of the time). We are still happy together after nearly 27 years.

Occasionally I do feel a bit resentful that I always have to be the responsible one and occasionally I do get the odd "controlling" comment. But mainly its fine. We are just very different.

This sounds like a great way of dealing with it.

Yes he pays tax via CIS

Last year was the first time he had a tax rebate as prior to that he worked in an office on PAYE

We agreed before hand what we doing with it, his car needed a new clutch so £800 went on that, he had £500 for himself and the remainder we spent on new sofas

Be interesting to see what happens this year

@honeylulu

I have a similar situation with my husband. He is hopeless with money, it just seems to trickle away with nothing to show for it, regularly overdrawn or paying credit card interest despite earning a really decent salary. (The punchline: he's an accountant.)

I can explain how we manage it and what has worked.

1. We have a joint account for all household costs including child related expenses.
2. We pay in set proportionate amounts to that account by DD every month. (In fact mine is lower than it should be because of 5 below).
3. The sums we pay in builds in a cushion for unforseen emergencies I.e boiler repairs, and a holiday fund.
4. Anything other than that is in our personal accounts and ours to spend or save as we want. We do both earn full time professional salaries. If this was badly imbalanced we might have needed to consider a more equal split of spends. My salary is actually higher (and my contribution to joint account lower) but this is adjusted by 5 below.
5. I pay from my personal funds all household renovation costs (3 year project so far and not quite finished). I also cover any family days out and the bulk of Christmas and birthday costs.

When the renovation is complete I will probably up my contribution to joint account but it kind of makes sense for now to access these funds from my personal account (lots of contractors like cash etc.) Also, my husband knows the funds in the joint account are not for personal spends but I do wonder if they built up to a nice surplus he might be tempted to suggest we dip into it and convince ourselves that the next phase of the renovation can wait. If it's in my account he doesn't think about it.

We've mentioned to people that this is what we do and some are horrified that we are married and don't completely share everything but it does work for us (most of the time). We are still happy together after nearly 27 years.

Occasionally I do feel a bit resentful that I always have to be the responsible one and occasionally I do get the odd "controlling" comment. But mainly its fine. We are just very different.

Similar to what we used to do, I was much happier having separate finances

Plus I saved up loads and he was overdrawn constantly

A little update; he's spent £120 in the pub since Friday and now wants to buy a £165 jacket

Done with it all now, I have worked out all the monthly direct debits, food and childminder. His half is £300 a week

So we are going to be paid into our own personal accounts, he will send me £300 a week the rest he can do what he likes with

Hi OP - I can feel your frustration coming off the page.

If you are happier having "separate" finances then do what works for you. I know that him having his own business account was discussed up thread and to be honest, trasnferring psending money to an errant teenager of a spender so as to control his habits sounds exhausting.

However, where does this leave you with the larger picture? Is there any possibility of him running up joint debt? In the worst case of a separation, would his debt cost you money? And do you honestly believe that he is going to be able to transfer your £300/week?

Another update; he wants to buy a load of clothes totalling around £1,000!

He doesn’t mind doing it over 2 months (that’s ok then!)

If I won’t he’s going to get a credit card and buy them
I asked how we will pay it off and he said that’s fine we’ll just send them £100 a week.

It just makes me feel ill

He’s on good money (although self employed) so maybe it’s me

I think it must make you less keen to stay with him.

Is all this weekend money going on alcohol or something?

Its so draining having a partner who just wants to spend without any consideration of anything.

My ex husband was the same,he just loved to spend on anything. He had depression and I think it made him happy to buy stuff.

We started off with a joint account which worked for a while,then he got himself credit cards to buy crap off ebay. He brought stuff every day,it didn't even cost that much but spending £5-£10 every day soon adds up.
Then he would get a loan to pay off the credit card and run it up again.
I tried the pocket money approach but that didn't work when he had credit cards to spend on.
In the end I got annoyed that my hard earned wages were paying towards his debts so we got seperate accounts.
Even though I earned less he was adamant we went 50/50 - so it meant he had more to waste on stuff.
This worked well for a while until he had so much debt the minimum payments were nearly the same as his income.
I tried helping him manage his finances (again) but really it was just a parent/child relationship which he resented.

I would say get out while you can, its so stressful living with someone who is a spender, always worrying that he might not pay his fair share of the bills or him asking for help to manage his finances and not following it.

Life is so much calmer since we split, all bills are my responsibility and I am no longer subbing someone to run up debt.

Dh and I have hugely different attitudes to money which I didn’t realise the significance of until after we lived together (I was young and niave). It caused a lot of stress in my life however he did eventually stop being stupid with money. His saving grace is that he works incredibly hard with his own business which has meant if he’s overspent he would always get the money somehow and he’s never got into trouble with debt.
However I do wish he hadn’t been like this, life would have been better if his attitude to money had been different.

I’d end it now OP.

Financial incompatibility is one of the major reasons for relationship breakdown and he clearly has no interest in changing.

It must be incredibly stressful for you. Also very unsexy that he wants a parent/ child relationship where you get all the worry and responsibility while he does what he likes.

End it now before you have kids and it becomes that much harder. Put yourself first. Ask him to leave and move on with a happy peaceful life