Power of attorney for MIL

[FurbleSocks]

Not a legal question but a relationship question.

DH has been sorting out power of attorney for his DM. Finally this week he met up with her and her friend who witnessed it. MIL has early onset dementia but lives alone and is pretty reliant on DH. For example he came back from this meeting with 2 things to do for her (investigate a fine she has received a letter about and a hospital appointment she chose to miss).

I asked if everything was sorted and he says yes. We just have to sign it. We? I asked. Why do I have to sign it? And that's when I find out he's written me down as the substitute power of attorney if he dies before her. How would you feel about this being sprung on you? How would you proceed?

You say your MIL has early stage dementia make sure the POA is legal . my DH and his siblings wanted poa for their dm but she had advanced dementia and did not have the capacity to understand . If the dementia is mild at the moment it wont affect her but its worth checking these things out if you are setting it up yourself

It is definitely worth making sure the POA is legal or even silly things like the phone and electric bills become an issue.

Might be worth speaking to a solicitor just to be clear in your own mind what it means.

POA doesn't mean fixing the washing machine it means having the authority to use her money to pay a cleaner.

@FurbleSocks
Only you can answer the question whether you feel you should be an alternate attorney.

Two points:

1. you don't need solicitor, it would be wasted expense -read this Citizens Advice information, which includes a direct link to the Gov.uk website which deals with setting up both money and health lasting powers- www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/looking-after-people/managing-affairs-for-someone-else/
2. you need to be sure that she still has capacity. If she doesn't, the powers are invalid. Take medical advice.

They currently take many months -perhaps half a year- to set up. The department that deals with them is overwhelmed.

A POA really only comes into effect once a person is no longer deemed capable of making their own decisions. As brutal as this sounds, if you DH died and it was down to you, you could leave everything to your MIL until she lost mental capacity. Then you have the power, control and right to put her in a care home. For everything on a day to day basis, you have someone onsite to look after her (her estate effectively pays, not you) and any formal decisions you can make over the phone.

Or your DH dies and you decide this isn’t for you and cancel the POA.

Just a thought. I am sure, for you to be identified to be a person to have LPA your DML must have agreed to you being named when forms where being completed so she has confidence in you. Agree you should have been consulted not just expected to be named by your husband

You should have been consulted but personally (am in a similar position even though I was consulted)..

I would say (have said) yes that's fine.
It is fair odds that she will die first. Husband feels supported, loved and less alone, worries less about what will happen to his mum in the event of his death.
If the unlikely worst comes to worst you either take on the POA or hand it back so the authorities decide for her.

POA does not mean running round doing errands, it means having the ability to access her money to pay for someone else to. So long as you keep records and act in her best interests that is the only "duty".

POA does not mean running round doing errands, it means having the ability to access her money to pay for someone else to. So long as you keep records and act in her best interests that is the only "duty".

True but at the same time someone with dementia is going to need support, and not just support to pay the electric bill but she will hit a point when pluging thw telly in is a challenge. People don't go from early stages to care home overnight its a slow horrible decline as dementia takes more of the person and they deal with good days and bad days.

@Lockdownbear - we are living it at the moment. MIL needs more care than we can give, but not bad enough for a care home. We are using her money to provide for her needs. We are hundreds of miles away, she has the money.

If you are the 'replacement' POA then that doesn't come into effect unless your DH is incapable for any reason. Whilst he is alive and kicking everything can be referred to him unless you are happy to do that particular thing. My FIL's substitute POA does not do anything even if asked beyond the normal family visiting etc.

@Lockdownbear

POA does not mean running round doing errands, it means having the ability to access her money to pay for someone else to. So long as you keep records and act in her best interests that is the only "duty".

True but at the same time someone with dementia is going to need support, and not just support to pay the electric bill but she will hit a point when pluging thw telly in is a challenge. People don't go from early stages to care home overnight its a slow horrible decline as dementia takes more of the person and they deal with good days and bad days.

And that’s where a care or nursing home becomes more appropriate for the person concerned. Again, it’s not errand running; it’s arranging for the care home bills to be paid and agreeing or refusing medical treatment.

If I tell you what we did in my family maybe you can take something useful from it? I hope nothing has changed as my beloved mum, who had alzheimer's, died two years ago. We were three siblings who shared both health and welfare and property and finance poas. So there are two different poas and you can have several people. This can spread the load and take account of different skills. Sadly my sister predeceased my mum at age 50 and my bil took over role but didn't do anything as couldn't cope. So my other sister and I did it and agreed roles across both poas. It was a massive workload. We were told the life expectancy with alzheimer's was ten years. As far as capacity isconcerned, it was absolutely impossible to get anyone to establish this. We just took on the role and showed the signed document if we needed to. Maybe you could share the roles with your husband so you always know what is going on, or he could keep a day book? Or the two of you could share with MIL's sister, with you taking on a smaller role whilst your children are so younger, maybe setting up and managing direct debits for example?

I do all our home stuff anyway so it's DH who's taken all of this on. It's the finance one rather than the health one as she has money but no common sense (that's NOT dementia related). I suggested DH gets the health one too as he will need it eventually but this was the more pressing one as he needed access to her online banking and she can't even use an ATM. When he realised how long it would take he had to go into the bank with her and do it that way anyway. But he's still persevering for the long run.

Health-wise she's stable but will decline. So I will suggest DH begins the health one as soon as possible too. Perhaps her sister could be the deputy on that one.

That sounds sensible. Your DH mind be able to get a third party mandate with the bank which could be quicker. We found the health and finance to be inextricably linked as it costs money to bring in care and sadly people quickly need care when dementia kicks in.

I was thinking they are interlinked too care cost money.
But at the same time is the health one not related to making decisions on treatments and life support etc?

It is linked to any health related issue. You can become the point of contact. MIL has dementia and cannot hear or see very well. After registering health POA with the doctor all communication comes through him. Vaccines, diabetes check ups etc. All means that he can arrange things to be done together at a convenient home for him or one of her friends or carers to go along. Rather than one appointment for flu vaccine, another bloods for diabetes check, another dipstick for urine check and yet another for dressings, he got one appointment session for all. MIL used to just say yes to each separate one when they rang, then not write it down etc...

DH is already involved in many of her appointments and regularly talks to the nurses for another condition she has. But the appointment letters don't go to him so this last one he didn't know about to persuade her to go (preventative rather than acute).