What would you do if you thought your friend was being isolated by her husband?

[Dacquoise]

Hi all, I have skirting around this issue for a while. My best friend's behaviour has changed since she met and married her second husband. It has become nigh on impossible to meet up with her or him because she has a catalogue of excuses, some totally ridiculous, why they can't meet.

We're not invited to theirs and the last time they came to stay with us (pre covid) the visit was abruptly cut short with them leaving first thing the next morning despite having a lunch set up. Nothing had happened between us that I can think of although he was behaving a bit obnoxiously in a pub we visited the day before. It was a gay pub and he was making loud homophobic comments thinking it was funny, totally unnecessary and very embarrassing. Nothing was said, we went home and all seemed fine.

At around the same time there was a big fallout with another of my friend's oldest friends. I got two different accounts from my friend and her husband but the gist of it was this other friend had got upset that she leaving the pub with her husband. This friend saw it as controlling and an argument broke out which resulted in this friend striking him. It seemed a bit outrageous and it was presented as this friend being a bit 'mentally unstable'.

However, since it has become clear that her husband doesn't want to see us either I am wondering whether he is, infact, isolating her. If I make an invitation she has to defer to him and then the excuses begin. She only seems to socialize with friends connected to him.

I did raise my concerns to her at the beginning of their relationship due to inequalities in assets and earnings but he moved in very quickly and they got married soon after. Every time I have seen him he bangs on about him being in the gutter and her saving him so I suspect he has always resented me flagging things up to her. The other estranged friend did the same. However neither of us have been anything other than welcoming to him since they married.

What do I do? I have felt quite annoyed about the rudeness and excuses and feel like walking away as it's become so obvious now. He probably wants that doesn't he?

Realistically speaking, there’s no help you can give her if she doesn’t want it. I’m assuming you have her number so you could message her telling her you’re concerned and you can get her help if she needs it

I am wondering whether I should just point it out to her as I don't think she's seeing it. She probably won't like it, she told him about my initial concerns. It quite insidious really. My DP noticed a few things on their last visit which he didn't mention, didn't want to upset me, but now things are starting to make sense. It wasn't clear if the excuses were hers or his but the last batch indicate him. This friendship won't survive will it?

In answer to your initial question (and I've been in your shoes in the past), I wouldn't give up on the friendship. I would keep communication open between me and friend as much as possible. I'd be careful what I said about her DH in case she tells him / takes offence on his behalf and distances herself from me because she doesn't want to hear it.

I would try to meet one on one - and make clear to her that I'd love to do that when she has the time. And I would gently draw her attention to things that concerned me. I'd make sure she knew I was there if she needed me.

But be careful not to overdo the 'concerned' bit, as if you make her feel bad about herself or DH she may avoid you in order to avoid those feelings.

If he is controlling then any distance between you and friend will help his cause.

In my friend's case, a number of us around her deployed this strategy. We did manage to keep seeing her / them but she wouldn't accept he was controlling for a long time. Eventually she saw it - I still don't know what made a difference in the end - and left him.

Thank you for your advice. It's a bit difficult as they live a couple of hours away and the only opportunity to meet is if I invite them. They never invite us. He was very insecure when they first met and kept checking up on her to see where she was.

He's now openly rude to us. The last time they came to stay, he insisted on leaving early the next morning despite me having a lunch set up. His behaviour at the pub was very childish and embarrassing.

Also the last time I travelled up to meet her, she rang to tell me she'd be late, turned up nearly an hour and a half late with no explanation and a birthday gift she had for me was broken. She wanted us to meet up there way recently. I made excuses as I didn't want to risk a repeat performance.

It's taken a while for me to piece it together. Unfortunately I was one of her two closest friends who pointed out our concerns to her regarding him and she obviously told him because he bangs on about it. The only friend was ousted in quire a public way. I think she was trying to point stuff out and it was turned back on her.

Like you said it's a waiting game although I do feel annoyed with her because the excuses are obvious and ridiculous. Unfortunately there is an inheritance imminent. I am expecting a new car purchase for him. He does the minimum he can workwise and only pays for their food. The rest goes on the pub and his smoking. I suppose if she's happy with this I have to keep quiet like you say.

I think you are in a difficult position because what you describe seems a form of coercive control, and the only way out I can see is for your friend to leave her second husband. However, your friend along with many other people, might wish to be in a bad relationship than none at all.

Hope somehow you can talk to her away from her husband.

He probably caused the lateness and was possibly trying to sabotage/call off the visit totally. Bet he had sonethung to so with the gift being broken too.

I thinks it's coercive too but very very subtle. He claimed to be a victim of domestic violence with his last partner which I find highly unlikely having got to know him. The different versions of the fall out with the other friend, again paints him as the victim as she struck him but I have now seen how provocative he can be.

Another thing that has struck me is that the last time I saw them as a couple she had the most hideous severe haircut. It made her look quite unattractive and we didn't know what to say to her about it. She's always taken a lot of pride in her appearance. After the latest string of excuses I managed to meet up with her alone and she had stopped dyeing her hair and was now grey. Very odd having known her so long.

However all of this could be explained away as my paranoia and projecting. Part of me wants to ask her outright what's going on but it's unlikely to go down well. Her last marriage was controlling. It only came out when he left her for another woman.

Thank you for responding. It's made me feel better about my suspicions.

@Tamworth123, that's what I now think. She deflected me when I tried to ask her why she was late although she was very apologetic and embarrassed. I thought it was odd because most people would tell you why. I was on the point of leaving as I had travelled two and a half hours to get there and felt really annoyed. He really is a piece of work isn't he.

Neither of his sons want anything to do with him.

It's awful isn't it to watch. One of my closest friends stopped answering her phone, he would 'take messages for her' that I am sure she never received.

Once she agreed to lunch but he came along and played the pokies while making sure he was within earshot so it was impossible to talk openly. Then a couple of months later, they moved cities without saying goodbye to anyone. Then she defriended me and everybody else on facebook. I don't know what you can do to help. She's got my phone number, my address, my facebook if ever she needs me.

As @northumberlandavenue said I think she would rather have someone than no one.

I would try to meet her on her own if at all possible and just ask her if she is happy rather than saying what you think about the situation yourself. If/ when she is ready to talk she knows the door will be open.

If she seems at all willing to engage then you can listen and signpost her to mumsnet / womensaid/ Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft so she can build her resources to allow her to leave

Do they both work? Does she have other family members, siblings etc that you can talk to? I know you said it is a two hour drive but could you go there, meet her at lunchtime and have a chat, as someone said upthread just ask if she is happy and how things are going?

It seems scary that she seems to be in thrall to him, repeating concerns to him that others have raised only to be bullied and controlled by him. What is the attraction for her? What was her first marriage like, is this a pattern with her?

I was considering asking her (only) to come to stay for a few days as she has loads of unused leave from last year. If the excuses start again that might be conclusive proof right?

The last few visits from her, a few years ago now, were very short and sweet, in a rush to get back yo him but she was dealing with a house sale close to me which is possibly how she was able to get away. I was also thinking about a link to the Lindy book but not convinced that would go down too well.

This is driving me mad as there have been various incidents of rudeness and unkindness which I attributed to her 'dropping' me now she had a partner. I feel a bit guilty if it was actually him influencing her.

be careful sending links and also any texts, whatsapps etc as these can be monitored by him

@Dacquoise, when he was being obnoxious/ racist in the pub, how did your friend react? Was this like her ?
It's a horrible place to be. You can only be there for her, but I understand your concern. I'd be the same.
@LovelaceBiggWither, that's awful. Your poor friend. And poor you when there's really nothing you can do. Maybe one day you'll be reunited eh?

I think you have all the "proof" you need

Something similar happened with two people I've known over the years but sometimes people choose to be controlled by others. Sounds like that happened here.

I'm sorry you lost your friend.

@ImJustMadAboutSaffron, she has literally no family and is about to lose her remaining parent. I was/am her family really. She refers to me as her sister. The other estranged friend was also her rock which was why I was so shocked at what happened.

I know she is worried about money, lack of pension and has taken out loans which is most unlike her. The inheritance won't go far if he gets his hands on it. He already has a wish list and has been using her parent's vehicle as he didn't have a car when she met him (or a job or any assets!)

She is a bit needy and vulnerable to men. Her relationships before him were extremely one sided and didn't end well. I was considering trying to contact the other friend by Facebook to see if she can throw more light on this but would that alienate her if she ever found out?

She said nothing during the pub incident. I think I shushed him at one point because it was very uncomfortable. The staff were lovely and didn't deserve such disrespect. Possibly that was why they left early the next day although they were fine with us in the in the evening. My DP only recently told me that the husband was very grumpy on the way home. I didn't notice as I don't really pay him a lot of attention when they're around, tend to focus on her.

Can you book a hotel room in her city for the night for some spurious reason and invite her to stay with you, or at least meet you for a meal?

Just be her friend, be delighted to see her or hear from her, be a safe place she can run to if it gets too much. Poor woman. Meet her in her area when you can.

He might be doing the abuser trick of telling her that her friends aren't worthy of her, only he truly cares for her etc Let her know you will always care for her

@Shouldbedoing, I suspect that may be true as I have started to back right off thinking it was her dropping me, probably played right into his hands. Also the estranged friend accused her of doing something outrageous (won't go into details) and with hindsight I am wondering whether he put the idea in the estranged friend's head.

Thank you everyone for your responses. You have no idea how conforting it is te be validated as I was starting to think I was being paranoid.

I can't really book somewhere close to her as it would look odd and he might well decide to join her. I think I will invite her down and if that's a no go, just ring her and ask her (gently). I don't have much to lose do I as it's not really a friendship anymore.

Meet up on some pretext and start wittering on about Mumsnet in a gossipy kind of way to drop the idea into her head that controlling relationships are discussed on here. If she starts having a look, that might open her eyes a little.

I think you need to work out what you want. If you care about your friend and want to support her then there is no need to ask her about her relationship or put her on the spot. There's no need to try to bring it to a head unless you want to draw a line under the friendship because you don't want to support her through this.

The best way to be her friend is to act like a friend ie call her regularly; arrange Zooms; arrange lunches; send her cards, flowers, etc.

I'm not doubting that he is abusive but you're very much downplaying that your other friend assaulted him. That should not have happened.

I wouldn't invite her to yours. I'd try to arrange a girls weekend away somewhere neither of you live. The fact is she probably is being controlled but if you try to get her somewhere that is your space that is going to feel less easy to open up than if you were somewhere else altogether. Pick somewhere you'd genuinely like to go, plan to enjoy yourself together (not for her to spill her guts), and be prepared for the ridiculous excuses.