What would you do if you thought your friend was being isolated by her husband?

[Dacquoise]

Hi all, I have skirting around this issue for a while. My best friend's behaviour has changed since she met and married her second husband. It has become nigh on impossible to meet up with her or him because she has a catalogue of excuses, some totally ridiculous, why they can't meet.

We're not invited to theirs and the last time they came to stay with us (pre covid) the visit was abruptly cut short with them leaving first thing the next morning despite having a lunch set up. Nothing had happened between us that I can think of although he was behaving a bit obnoxiously in a pub we visited the day before. It was a gay pub and he was making loud homophobic comments thinking it was funny, totally unnecessary and very embarrassing. Nothing was said, we went home and all seemed fine.

At around the same time there was a big fallout with another of my friend's oldest friends. I got two different accounts from my friend and her husband but the gist of it was this other friend had got upset that she leaving the pub with her husband. This friend saw it as controlling and an argument broke out which resulted in this friend striking him. It seemed a bit outrageous and it was presented as this friend being a bit 'mentally unstable'.

However, since it has become clear that her husband doesn't want to see us either I am wondering whether he is, infact, isolating her. If I make an invitation she has to defer to him and then the excuses begin. She only seems to socialize with friends connected to him.

I did raise my concerns to her at the beginning of their relationship due to inequalities in assets and earnings but he moved in very quickly and they got married soon after. Every time I have seen him he bangs on about him being in the gutter and her saving him so I suspect he has always resented me flagging things up to her. The other estranged friend did the same. However neither of us have been anything other than welcoming to him since they married.

What do I do? I have felt quite annoyed about the rudeness and excuses and feel like walking away as it's become so obvious now. He probably wants that doesn't he?

Yes I understand what you are saying about the assault and that is what I thought when I heard about it. I still think it was very wrong. However he has form for being 'assaulted' by women. The estranged friend has subsequently been ousted from the wider friendship group where they live.

Having now seen his provocative behaviour for myself I am wondering what was said for her to do that, the outrageous accusation that was subsequently made to my friend.

I think he was trying to provoke a reaction at the gay pub because it was obvious how uncomfortable everyone was but he carried on regardless, then flounce the next day.

The problem with this behaviour is that it's insidious. I am trying to carry on being a friend but it's a bit difficult if it means very infrequent meet ups after loads of excuses and wrangling that goes on fir weeks. I can walk away to save myself the grief but that's what he wants isn't it.

And now I can see it, I won't give up without letting her know that I am here for her if she wants.

I think that's all you can do tbh, let her know you're there whatever happens and step back

Having been in a similar situation to your friend, and having had one amazing friend who stood by me despite him isolating me from other friends and family, I can tell you what my friend did. She played the long game. She stayed in contact, didn't overtly mention anything that concerned her about his behaviour and just made sure I knew she was still there and still cared. Because she came across as completely non-threatening to him, he didn't try to cut that friendship off. When I came to my senses and started thinking about leaving, I knew she had my back. When I left, she was my rock. Be that friend. Yes, it will be frustrating for you but it is a safe way of staying in her life and being there when she needs you.

You could also consider introducing her to Mumsnet as a useful resource for anything you think she might like (you could link her to the more silly AIBUs to give her something to laugh at). It sounds daft but my friend did this and I ended up reading post after post about abusive behaviour that was strikingly similar to what I experienced. I finally realised that was what was happening to me. I still think Mumsnet was in my friend's game plan all along!

but you're very much downplaying that your other friend assaulted him. That should not have happened.
I
If it's isolated behaviour for the other friend, something has clearly gone done that is way out of the normal; and everything else we know about him suggests he created & stage managed a scenario that caused the other friend to lose the plot .... given he seens to trying alienate his partner's friends/support and isolate her from them in text book abuser style, thatbseens v likely.

If you can both be discrete about it, it would be v useful to ask the other friend (the rock) exactly what happened fromnhec pointbof view.

He's successfully gotten rid of her, now I appears his (very likely) engineering of lateness to meet op, broken gifts, rudeness and anti social behaviour while visiting etc etc is an attempt to get rid of the other main friend/support/sounding board.

*something has clearly gone down

Sorry about the typos

@Tamworth123, that's exactly what I thought about the incident in hindsight although I was shocked about it when I heard. The friend did say something to him at the beginning of the relationship along the lines that she hoped he was going to behave with our friend. She was very protective of her and seen her through a lot of hard times. Quite a loss really and would have been unusual behaviourfor her. Which is starting to make me think he has local form. It's quite a small community centred around the pubs. In contrast he is not adverse to threats and violence in his dealings and is quite proud of his 'bad boy' past.

I voiced my concerns directly to my friend when she met him which was obviously repeated to him but like I said I have made a lot of effort to include him and make him welcome at my house.

@mumoffloofs, out of interest, if your friend had said something to you, what would have been your reaction?

It's so hard to watch isn't it.

I think you can assume that he's doing everything he can to isolate her from you. That might involve criticising you, saying you don't have her best interests, making up things you've said or done, saying you're a rubbish friend etc.

Be aware of that in all of your interactions with both of them.

@layladomino, I now strongly suspect that is what he's doing although thankfully he can't twist any conversations because I don't deal with him direct like the estranged friend. She even started calling him her 'brother', how ironic.

I will take everyone's advice and keep in contact, see if we can meet up alone, probably not best to be direct about it and see if she says anything. She has mentioned things in passing like how much time he spends in the pub but she dismissed it as a 'man thing'. Also her worries about retirement.
She contradicts herself a lot with the excuses she gives, almost forgets what she's already told me. Wondering if she's wanting to be discovered unconsciously.

It was definitely going through my mind that I was being dropped. I will step up again and make sure he doesn't shake me off, the obnoxious git! He's picked the wrong friend on this one.

Good for you Op, you're a good friend.

@mumoffloofs

Having been in a similar situation to your friend, and having had one amazing friend who stood by me despite him isolating me from other friends and family, I can tell you what my friend did. She played the long game. She stayed in contact, didn't overtly mention anything that concerned her about his behaviour and just made sure I knew she was still there and still cared. Because she came across as completely non-threatening to him, he didn't try to cut that friendship off. When I came to my senses and started thinking about leaving, I knew she had my back. When I left, she was my rock. Be that friend. Yes, it will be frustrating for you but it is a safe way of staying in her life and being there when she needs you.

You could also consider introducing her to Mumsnet as a useful resource for anything you think she might like (you could link her to the more silly AIBUs to give her something to laugh at). It sounds daft but my friend did this and I ended up reading post after post about abusive behaviour that was strikingly similar to what I experienced. I finally realised that was what was happening to me. I still think Mumsnet was in my friend's game plan all along!

this is extremely wise advice a man like this will be planning to isolate the woman- from friends, family and any service that might notice what's going on or help her. To this end, he will tell those people lies about her, and he will tell her lies about them (eg your sister came on to me/my wife told me she fancies your husband/don't listen to my wife, she's been very stressed lately/don't bother telling anyone, they'll never believe you) But if you are the completely non threatening friend he may 'allow' you to stay in her life.

She's just agreed to come down for a long weekend. Will make it very clear that I'm here for her. Let you know if anything happens.

Thank you again for all your wise advice. Nice to know I'm not imagining this stuff.

Having been in a very controlling abusive relationship, the only friends I managed to keep through those years were friends who came to visit me and and spent time with me and ex. I really appreciate those friends' intuitive understanding that I was basically not allowed to leave the house. Those few visits were far between but I am so grateful that I still had one or two friends who did this in order to see me. I wouldn't necessarily text your concerns to her, as if she is being controlled he might be reading her texts, or she might feel she has to tell him. I'd try and keep lines of communication open, and try and see her even if that means an awkward cuppa at hers!

I had this.
She wanted to complain 24/7
She wouldn’t leave
She lost everything
Still she stayed.
But complained
I had to tell her “no more” so I left
She’s now marrying him…