In limbo in LTR. Need to break stalemate. What do I say?

[renslip]

Very long relationship of nearly two decades.
We've never lived together by both our choices but do spend a lot of time together and see (or saw!) each other as family, committed etc.

We had a big disagreement the day before new year's eve. We both think the other is completely in the wrong.

We literally haven't spoken since. Only the absolute essential things due to business we have.

This has happened before over the years (infrequently, maybe twice before), But never has it been so long and so silent and cold before. It would usually be me trying to talk more, but this time I've ignored too. He is usually the first to put out an olive branch though.

If we argue it's most often resolved within hours if not a couple of days!

I've been hurting and starting to think the relationship must be over for him.

I'm going to send him an email as I can't stand the limbo any more.

What should I write?

Please no LTB replies, I may well leave or he may well have left me, but I need to get him to communicate (he's not good at it) first so we know where the land lies.

Any help please xx

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove
That's a very different situation, then.

You must feel very fed up of this dynamic?

Yes, I don't like it, but it has somehow worked for us for so many years. We are both a bit 'avoidant' I think, in different ways. We always work it through somehow. But not this time it seems .

@Jk987
I do love him, although I really dislike him for a few aspects of his character. I do love him though. I'm fine not living together as long as we made enough time for each other, which we did. It would take a long time and certain circumstances before I'd ever live with a man again.

If this is to do with covid contacts and isolation and being vulnerable (obviously you don't have to say), or something similar, then you have my sympathies. My DP has a couple of relatives who think it's fine to expose DP to covid knowing that it would make it harder for him to see me (I have immune-suppressing treatment going on) including taking me to a minor op on Friday. They ruined Hogmanay.

It depends if you want to take a growth opportunity to communicate better in relationships. It's risky because you might well lose him if he's not up for doing it too. But it sounds like you've had enough of your "dynamic" anyway?

"Hi X, we haven't spoken since Christmas. I have been thinking about what I want from the rest of my life and I don't want a relationship where sulking and silences are the norm any more. I don't want to behave like that myself; and I don't want to be on the receiving end. I want to learn more skilful ways to communicate.

If you are interested in moving our relationship to a place where we can both be happier, and learning together some other ways to solve our problems, I would love to talk. I don't want to throw away 20 years and I love you very much.

I know this will be scary and it's a change so please think about my message and let me know how you think we can move forward and change things, and what help we might need. If you don't think you can come towards me here I'm afraid I can't see a future for us. I'll expect a message within the week letting me know what you think, and I'll take silence as meaning you'd like to break up."

Thanks @oncemoreunto

@WildPoinsettia I know. And agree. Especially in this current situation. That is what is really hurting me.
It's no excuse for him, but I see how he is like this. He does have really overbearing parents, he did not get a chance to be himself when growing up, so he's always on the defensive and hates 'talking'.

It is really hurting me that usually - despite his hatred of talking and emotional stuff and defensiveness - he would normally have missed me enough to reach out. This time even after 4 weeks (!!) he is still being cold. I keep thinking is it over for him.

The disagreement has passed now. Although could come up in the future again.

How has it passed? You still feel about it however you still feel about it and he still feels different. Your differing opinions exist in the present, notthe past. The event may be over but the fundamental differences between you are still there. Nothing has been sorted out and neither will it ever be if one party refuses to effectively communicate. The amount of effort you're putting in to engineering and cajoling him into some sort of written conversation between you is astounding and very far from normal.

I don’t think you can move anywhere in this relationship without talking about what when on and how you two handled it.
You both seem unable to deal with a disagreement and neither is wiling to compromise. Or consider if you in fact are wrong, individually, or both.

And it’s not a good sign for the relationship.
Can’t remember where I read it - but it was by a psychologist about relationships.
He said - in his observations over the years - it’s not the couples that didn’t argue that made it, it was couples who argued/had disagreements but dealt with them.

Sadly if he hasn't communicated for over four weeks then I would assume the relationship has come to an end ... but he just won't tell you, perhaps he is so 'avoidant' that he wants you to be the one that 'finishes' it.

I suppose you could just do nothing and see what happens ...

You must feel very fed up of this dynamic?

Yes, I don't like it, but it has somehow worked for us for so many years. We are both a bit 'avoidant' I think, in different ways. We always work it through somehow. But not this time it seems

Has it always worked before because you've firstly put up with it and secondly, brushed it under the carpet and pretended it never happened, as you went back to normal?

WildPoinsettia I know. And agree. Especially in this current situation. That is what is really hurting me.
It's no excuse for him, but I see how he is like this. He does have really overbearing parents, he did not get a chance to be himself when growing up, so he's always on the defensive and hates 'talking'

I'm sorry but this is pure bullshit. You're right, it's no excuse. So why have you both been accepting it as one? If he as issues that prevents him having normal healthy relationship then he gets help with those issues or stays single (because any sensible person would leave him!). Expecting partners to put up with his issues, while he does absolutely nothing to work towards changing them and being a better person, shows a lack of care and respect for anyone else. In other words he's selfish and cares only about himself.

Send him a note:

Do you like renslip? Please circle.

Yes

No

Well, it might break the ice! Honestly though, that's such a long time not to talk. Are you sure there's a way back?

I think @MakeYourOwnLollies reply is good

I know it's easy to say from the outside but it feels like you should communicate what you really feel - it might be your only chance to do so

Reading your posts, it seems like the bullet points are:

I love you, although I don't always like you
I don't want to split up, and the silence over the last four weeks makes me think that you do, which is really painful
However if that's what you want I will of course accept it
I would like us to stay together, but if we do we have to find a way to ensure these really long silences never happen again, because I find it too painful and I can't do that to myself
I need to know either way what is happening

I think I'd honestly just try to send something like that. While it would be crappy for you if you split up, it would also be crappy to (as you say) stumble back in to a relationship that has this dynamic in it, with the added worry that now he thinks month-long silences are a new and improved feature...

thanks @MakeYourOwnLollies

@WildPoinsettia It's passed (for now) because it has passed. I took a decision that he saw as being 'against him' and made him irate.
The amount of effort you're putting in to engineering and cajoling him into some sort of written conversation between you is astounding and very far from normal. I agree with this. I guess I am anxious-avoidant and he is just avoidant. I struggle badly with mental health as it is. I have reached my tolerance limit for 'not knowing what is going on' , and want to word something in a way which he will respond to and then I'll have some idea where he is, rather than him just shutting down.

@MMmomDD Thanks. I think I've read that somewhere too.

@Ragwort Yes. He will be sticking his head in the sand and not wanting to think about it or reflect on it, other than knowing he is still angry with me. It's the length of time though that makes me think he thinks it's over.

@PacificState Thanks that does sound good.

OP you could come at this from a different angle. Instead of not knowing what's going on, you could decide for yourself what's going on. After all this time you know how he is. You know you have some very basic but very important differences of opinion. You know how he behaves when something happens that he doesn't like. You know he has no interest in changing, either in himself or his outward behaviour, despite him knowing how it affects you.

You're walking on eggshells around him and you don't like it. You're basically asking us how best to go about tiptoeing round his feelings, like your question is "what's the best and most effective way to walk on eggshells?". You don't need to do it.

You could decide for yourself to exit this dynamic, to be ordinary and act in an entirely normal way. If he responded to that in a way that's not caring and respectful, then you can decide not to tolerate it. You don't need to live a life where your relationship means pandering to someone else's unreasonableness. It's ok to expect him to be reasonable. That's not too much to ask of someone.

If he doesn't respond at all then you have your answer.

Yes I know. I suppose there was enough good aspects of the relationship that the communication issues were worth it for the majority good times iyswim? I'm not really walking on egg shells as such, although it probably sounds like that. I'm trying to present it to him in a way that he's most likely to respond to. Because I've really had enough with the limbo and don't want it prolonged.

You are right though - I can and should decide for myself that it's over for me. It may well be the longer this goes on.

I messaged him at 3.30pm. No reply yet. If he ignores it for longer than a few days, then yes I think that will be my answer. For me as well because this limbo state is awful, I need to try move on.

Also it's not passed. The event has passed, whatever you did has passed. But the difference of opinion which led to your decision still exists.

As much as he can't "press the reset button" and expect you to brush things under the carpet when you argue and move on like nothing happened, neither can you expect to "press the reset button" on him.

You think it's passed. It isn't. His feelings are still there. The difference of opinion is still there. You've even said you'd make the same decision again in similar circumstances (which is fine, you don't need to back down necessarily, all depends what you did and if you were unreasonable, which it doesn't sound like you were). So nothing has been sorted.

If he's going into a huff over a perceived slight against him, ie if he's being unreasonable, then waiting for him to "get over it" and decide to come out of his huff isn't the answer. Because the problem is the fact that he's huffing in the first place rather than the "why" of it.

I suppose there was enough good aspects of the relationship that the communication issues were worth it for the majority good times iyswim?

I understand. All of life is a choice. It's been a long time though, this sulk. If you accept it this time you're effectively telling him you'll always accept it. Rotten situation to be in.

Be interesting to see if he comes back at any point expecting you two to still be together! Like if he thinks you won't have been thinking about what you want or perhaps deciding for yourself it's over.

I don't know how you've done 20yrs with someone like this, you must have a lot of patience.

I'm not a big one for binning people off, and I can be a sulker myself so I'm not totally without understanding for passive aggressive people... but if he ignores you for more than about 24 hours I would a) consider it over and b) be pretty bloody cross. Deliberately ignoring a genuine request for clarity is an answer in itself, and a sign he's got a properly nasty streak.

Yes thanks, you have a point there. He definitely perceives that I have wronged him. I honestly don't think I have. He can be quite narcissistic (although definitely not a full blown narcissist), and so he will be irate that I made a decision against him, which affected him.

At first I thought here we go again (this has happened twice before in nearly 20 years but never as long or as cold as this), he's angry and trying to 'punish' me, I'll wait until he calms down. It seems different now though, like he is not 'coming back' to us.

@WildPoinsettia
I understand. All of life is a choice. It's been a long time though, this sulk. If you accept it this time you're effectively telling him you'll always accept it. Rotten situation to be in.
Yup. I have thought of that, that he'll think I'll always accept it.

Be interesting to see if he comes back at any point expecting you two to still be together! Like if he thinks you won't have been thinking about what you want or perhaps deciding for yourself it's over.
He will probably be a bit worried I'll meet someone else, as I am that he will. As for thinking I'll just decide for myself it's over, nah I doubt it. He's too smug secure for that.

I don't know how you've done 20yrs with someone like this, you must have a lot of patience.
My daughter says this.

@PacificState
Yes I'm thinking to wait 5 days. He can have a nasty streak. Rarely but it's there.

You need to stop this now OP, .... 5 days is too long IMO.. just prolonging the agony

I'd text back tomorrow evening if you have not heard , and say 'Ok since you haven't bothered to reply I am assuming that we are over.. Have a nice life' Renslip

... and if needed..

Your stuff at mine will be ready to collect at / on.... I would appreciate it if you could know where /when I can collect mine by return..

Then dont contact again...

You only get one life ... please dont waste any more of it pandering to his sulking ...

Gods do not wait 5 days. If its a straight question similar to ones you thought of sending in the thread and he doesnt respond promptly then I wouldnt want him back if I were you. That would just be cruel behaviour. 20!!! Years is not a flash in the pan.

@renslip

Yes thanks, you have a point there. He definitely perceives that I have wronged him. I honestly don't think I have. He can be quite narcissistic (although definitely not a full blown narcissist), and so he will be irate that I made a decision against him, which affected him.

At first I thought here we go again (this has happened twice before in nearly 20 years but never as long or as cold as this), he's angry and trying to 'punish' me, I'll wait until he calms down. It seems different now though, like he is not 'coming back' to us.

He definitely perceives that I have wronged him. I honestly don't think I have

But he clearly thinks you have and that what matters to him.

in your original post you put
He is usually the first to put out an olive branch
What ever has happened it has pissed him off so much, that he might not do this, you might have to the one to offer an olive branch (if you want to)

He sounds insufferable OP.

You don't deserve to be punished. I doubt you've done anything wrong. You're entitled to live your life the way you want to. If he disagrees with your decisions he can walk away from the relationship. Punishing you isn't ok.

My counselor once said I had a tremendous capacity to put up with crap. I don't think it was a compliment. She looked rather horrified.

I think you're wrong about him usually being the first one to put out an olive branch too. You also said you're the one who usually starts talking to him first. So effectively you're the one who says "hey I'm still here, still tolerating your behaviour" and knowing this, when he deems you sufficiently punished, he allows you what you want: the relationship back on track.

Reckon the only reason you're not seeing more of his nasty streak is because you live separately and you're actively choosing to turn a blind eye to it . Good luck OP

All these weeks of no communication and now not responding to your text is him communicating from the top of the mountain….that he does not want you around right now. Silence is one of the most difficult things to hear. It means you are not worth the headspace for him now. Whatever the issue was, it had a big effect on him. He has the right to step away and take time out. Yes, it’s brutal that he isn’t responding to you but you must try and let go now. Get on with your life and he may well appear again sooner or later. Then you must improve how you communicate.