He's 'changed'....I was doing so well!

[beesfeet]

I won't go into the reasons why my marriage broke down but through therapy I can see it was emotionally abuse and coercive control. Well at least I think I can see it. My therapist also says he sounds like a narcissist which I am not 100% on. I do still have some sort of attachment/love towards my husband unfortunately but I have been working towards my own needs and starting to think of my own boundaries.

And then he comes and ruins it. But I don't know if he means it.

So H has apologised for his behaviour towards me. He realises it was unacceptable. He blames work for the reason he made me feel unloved. He says he will not let that happen again and while I've been gone, he has realised how to leave work at work.

I have told him exactly how he made me feel, how I felt I had to tip toe around him and that he was emotionally abusive. He will not agree he was emotionally abusive but says he can see why he came across as controlling. He will continue to work on this in therapy. He's has approx 5 sessions so far.

He is 100% sure he can change, he will never let us get back to the place we were at again. He will help with the dcs, he will help with the house work. He will be the husband I need and the father the dcs need.

He has let me shout and scream at him while telling him everything he's done and hasn't got angry. He says he deserves it all.

I have said he hasn't been in therapy long enough yet and he needs to stick it out to see a change. He isn't asking me to come home, he said he would like some sort if inclination that we can try when the time is right.

What he hasn't done is sorted the bills as I removed my name off them and he has a pile of letters and things he needs to pay - he is clueless but if he sorted them himself it would show he is capable of doing things without me.

He also hasn't really asked how the dcs are coping. It's mainly how he is doing and how he feels. He does talk about himself a lot.

He also blames work for a lot of it like I said. It's not directly him. His behaviour after I left was terrible but that was blamed on a mental breakdown he has because I left. Again the blame wasn't on him - it was a breakdown.

Another reason he says is the reason for him treating me how he did is to do with a suicide in his family from 13 years ago. He didn't grieve for that and continued his life normal and never took time to deal with it. This is what his therapist says is a reason for his behaviour.

He has mentioned him meeting someone else - as a way to get over our marriage and that he feels if I don't give him an inclination that we can try resolve things then he will have to try meet other people as a way to get over me. Is this manipulation?

He has a habit of taking about things in front of the dcs. I am very conscious that they don't hear anything but he doesn't seem to have learnt and continues to try being up the subject in front of them.

He isn't going to change is he? It's just the fact I have been trying to get him in therapy for years and now I've left, he finally has.

I also wondered if I could contact his therapist. I know he won't be able to tell me anything as it's all confidential which I completely get but maybe I could get some idea of what to do.

I think what I'm worried about is he will change for another woman and I'll be feeling like I'm the one that's made a mistake

I think you're accurately recognising attempts at manipulation/control and also recognising that he hasn't really accepted responsibility for his actions. He is still blaming outside influences.

The suggestion that he might "need" to see other people in order to "get over" your marriage is particularly cynical. If he was really interested in changing himself and fixing the marriage such an idea would never be something he could think of.

You were right to leave him, do not ever go back. Like practically all abusers he’s full of excuses and they are just that, excuses. He’s also not accepting any responsibility for his actions and blames other people or circumstances for his choices. He abused you because he could and felt entitled to do so.

He is in all likelihood manipulating the therapist just as surely as he manipulated you, these types of men are really master manipulators.
He is not going to do well in therapy and besides which he would need years of it. This is who he is and he is not going to change.

Do not bother at all with contacting his therapist. Instead concentrate your efforts on your own self and children in rebuilding your lives. It would be a good idea to contact Women’s Aid and look too at the Freedom Programme.

Op, he will will never change. Normal people have empathy, it develops in childhood and so they don't go about abusing people. If it doesn't form in childhood then no amount of therapy can instil it into them as adults.

If you were to tell me that he was an alcoholic who only became abusive when he became one, then perhaps quitting drinking and and few years of aa might change things. However, this is not the case for him right? No, because he, is simply a horrible human being. And no amount of therapy can change an evil piece of shit into a decent, empathetic , respectful human being. Its not going to happen.

And yes, he is attempting every trick in the book in order to maniipulate you back. It's all bullshit op.

I understand that it's scary scary give up on q dream of him being a good partner and rhink he might be it with someone else. But know that this will never happen, he will abuse anyone the same way as he has abused you. You are not giving up an opportunity. You are giving up a poison.

For the sake of your kids, never go back to this man. You have to show them that abuse is not something to tolerate or 'wait out'. It's something to remove from our lives, so that we may have a chance of happiness either single, or with someone in future who truly respect and values us.

Thank you all. It's hard, I have to have contact with him because of the dcs but every time I do, he uses it to speak to me about our marriage. Tonight I've heard them same old things. But it's all 'I will' not 'I have'

Forgot to say he also has struck up a friendship with a woman. He insists it's only a friendship and he speaks to her about our marriage, asking for a woman's perspective on things. He's told me a few times he will stop this friendship but he hasn't as yet. Tonight told me again he will stop it.

He also has a bad spending habit which he says he will stop but hasn't yet. Well he hasn't spent anything for 2 days so he is telling me he has stopped.

I was very angry for a good couple of months after leaving him and that got me through but i have since lost that anger. I don't know what I feel now, very confused. Obviously he keeps telling me he will change and he will never make the same mistakes again. Obviously if I don't take him back and he starts a new relationship I'm automatically going to think she will have the husband that I never did. However I cannot risk taking him back and feeling if not worse than I ever did before I left. It's a very horrible situation.

Excuses and manipulation...

He does sound like a narcissist and they are incapable of changing.

You made the right decision by leaving him. Stick to it.

It's mainly how he is doing and how he feels. He does talk about himself a lot.

That tells you everything you need to know.
'Well anyway, enough about me... what do you think ABOUT ME' as the old joke goes.

Forgot to say he also has struck up a friendship with a woman. He insists it's only a friendship and he speaks to her about our marriage, asking for a woman's perspective on things.

Your Ex is being a dick @beesfeet. Again.

I'm no psychologist but if you're looking for signs that your ex is a narcissist, here it is:

He is 100% sure he can change, he will never let us get back to the place we were at again. He will help with the dcs, he will help with the house work. He will be the husband I need and the father the dcs need.

This is called grandiosity. The narcissist recognises that his behaviours in the past have resulted in negative consequences for him. But rather than take his failings on board and think about them in a close and realistic way, he decides to simply write off his flawed "former" self and invent a shiny new "ideal" self for himself – and by extension you – to believe in.

He tells you he is "no longer that person". He's "completely changed". He outlines a wonderfully appealing vision for the future (this is known as "future-faking") and insists that it happening is an absolute certainty. However if you start to press for details about how and when those changes are going to happen, you will discover quickly that details are in very short supply.

Him wanting you to accept this grand vision of the future and rapidly commit to a relationship with him again (or he might have to go off with Woman B) is all part of the future-faking.

Woman B has no direct experience with him and is therefore far more likely than you are to fall for his big story about how wonderful a future with him will be. He's counting on you worrying about that.

What you need to do is tell him that everything he says sounds great but you'll need to see it to believe in it. Your trust in him has been badly broken so as nice as it is to hear that he believes he will change, the only thing that rebuilds broken trust is seeing him live up these new promises.

If he really loves you and understands that he's broken your trust and hurt you badly, he will commit to taking the time to prove to you that he has changed without expecting you to quickly return to a full, trusting relationship in return. If he's not willing to do that, you should take that as a sign that he doesn't get it and probably never will.

Just stop talking to him. He starts talking about the marriage, say TTYL bye.

He's using you as an unpaid therapist and ego stroke.

Absolutely everything PP's have said.

He is trying to bamboozle you with hope. And so that you don't think too much into it he's pressuring you with a nasty ultimatum. Narcissists are like drug addicts, but they get highs from attention and power, power includes the ability to upset/confuse/deceive/influence others.

I assume you told him for years what he was/wasn't doing and how it affected you? But all of a sudden he's realised? Now? No. And apparently he loves you so much that he'll replace you with anyone, immediately. You deserve so much more.

Usually with people like this they change superficially enough to become enmeshed in your life again and then they relax into their old selves. If he was serious about 'change' then he would've done it before when you brought it up, not waited until now.

You will have the relationship you deserve and yearn for, but it'll be with someone else, he'll always feel entitlement over you because of DC's so he'll probably try to 'punish' you with how good is in a new relationship when it happens, eventually down the line you'll find out that he's the same twat he always has been.

You're apart for a reason, nothing has changed, he's just making other annoying sounds now. Ignore.

Google narcissist supply. It will explain the new woman, why he’s telling you and also why he prefers to stay away and work on ‘therapy’ for longer. He’s secured a new supply (if not more than one) and is getting the adoration he needs there.

You shouting at him? Supply. He’s feeding off your pain/ frustration. He’s also storing up the fact that you got angry as ammunition against you in an argument in the future.

His reasons for his behaviour. Textbook. Especially the using the unresolved trauma from the past (my exp did the same btw). They use it as therapists will swallow it whole. My exp therapist said he had unresolved traumas in his body. BS, none of those traumas came our anywhere other than on me. They didn’t impact his job, his friends etc. it’s important to them that they get their therapist on side as it gives them another voice to validate that they are not the issue.

Personally? I’d advise you to start counselling alone with someone who specialises in narcissistic abuse. So you can understand who he is and why he is doing what he is. Leaving personalities like this is so incredibly hard. I tried many times and it’s only with professional support that I have managed to stay away.

Also understand the cycles they go through. Idealisation, devaluation, discard. You’ve beaten him to the discard and he can’t have that.

Please get some help for yourself, especially as you have children with him.

Thank you all for your replies. I know you are all correct and that he will never change. He thinks a few sessions is enough to fix him, he knows what he has to work on and where his insecurities lie.

I have asked him to end this friendship many times if he is serious about his marriage continuing but the answer is always the same. He says he will. Last night he still hadn't. Why am I such a mug?

I have looked so much into narcissism. A lot fits but some doesn't. He thought all he had to do was go to work and that was it. I did absolutely everything else and he thought we were both happy with us being like that. Despite it was obvious I wasn't happy like that. He just didn't notice. I guess that's because narcissists are that obsessed with themselves.

I've spoken to my mum in depth about him and my mum has said she liked him but did get fed up of his constant talking. He has a medical condition and the minute anyone asks how he's doing with it, he would be off. He would talk a good 20 mins about it. My mum stopped asking. It got to the point here he would ask if she wanted to see his injections he takes and he would go get one and show her how to use it I'm guessing this all sounds very narcissistic?

He also constantly repeats himself, the same stories. We've all heard it all before. I used to sit and cringe as I knew everyone had heard this storey before. Also constantly moaning about how hard he works. It was draining.

We never really talked about me. Not to the extent we talked about him. But I'm guessing we wouldn't talk about me as he is a narcissist.

I really need to get it in my head that's what he is

I wouldn’t get hung up about whether he fits some list of criteria for a label. The fundamental thing is that you don’t trust him and he’s done nothing to change that. His words are all deflection and excuses, no accountability for his behaviour. I would set up a means of communication between you that is solely for organising the children and any other messages just ignore or block.

@Rainbowshine

I wouldn’t get hung up about whether he fits some list of criteria for a label. The fundamental thing is that you don’t trust him and he’s done nothing to change that. His words are all deflection and excuses, no accountability for his behaviour. I would set up a means of communication between you that is solely for organising the children and any other messages just ignore or block.

Oh I agree 100%. He didn't treat me well and that's that. I suppose just having a label makes me realise that I'm not and never was going crazy.

My ex, after I kicked him out, frequently returned to tell me how bad HE was, how much this was affecting HIM but never once asking me how I was. (Bloody amazing after getting rid of him)

They don't change. They can't change. The most they can do is pay lip service to try and convince you to take them back because they recognise the impact it had had on THEM.

Please don't fall for his nonsense. Talk is cheap. Actions are what matter.

You're instincts on this are so right OP. The word that jumped out for me was your confusion. I real clear indicator that you are indeed at the hands of a narcissist. I had 2 in a row. One my husband and one my rebound. Both very different in their behaviours from the outside. The second was actually more difficult to spot as he fell into the covert narcissist category. I think your ex sounds more like this to be honest. Blame shifting, sob stories, self centred conversations and the threat of the other woman. I think you know he isn't going to change and yet you're fearful the next woman will get the better version of him. Utter crap. This is him and you'll never feel right with him. I don't want to make your thread about me but I took a couple of years after the second narc ( lockdown forced that really) I did all the reading that there was, I didn't need therapy as such but realised my boundaries needed strengthening ten fold. Did that and out of nowhere me the the best man I think I could possibly wish to meet. A year on, he's never had to apologise to "do better" he's just a good man who doesn't need fixing. Feel free to direct message me. You sound super switched on. The longer you go without your ex the scales will continue to lift xxx

I have an ex who wants me back - after dating someone else who put him through the ringer with her endless flirting and heavy drinking. I'm not a flirt, I'm a one man kinda girl. He, however, was an endless flirt, needed the affermation that he still had it though getting older. Quite poetic justice I feel, maybe he's learnt something from the experience, but his claims that he will be totally different with me this time, I do not believe. He's got to his 50's behaving the same way all his life, can he really flick a switch now? Anyway, it's irrelevant to me now, because while he had his fun, I had mine and I'm much happier with someone else who's not disfunctional. But even if single, I wouldn't entertain it, anyone else is welcome to him. I hope you get to that point, your ex is a shit, when the threat of him seeing someone else makes you think - good, it gets you out of my hair, you know it's done. That's when you are finally free

@totallyoutnumbered

You're instincts on this are so right OP. The word that jumped out for me was your confusion. I real clear indicator that you are indeed at the hands of a narcissist. I had 2 in a row. One my husband and one my rebound. Both very different in their behaviours from the outside. The second was actually more difficult to spot as he fell into the covert narcissist category. I think your ex sounds more like this to be honest. Blame shifting, sob stories, self centred conversations and the threat of the other woman. I think you know he isn't going to change and yet you're fearful the next woman will get the better version of him. Utter crap. This is him and you'll never feel right with him. I don't want to make your thread about me but I took a couple of years after the second narc ( lockdown forced that really) I did all the reading that there was, I didn't need therapy as such but realised my boundaries needed strengthening ten fold. Did that and out of nowhere me the the best man I think I could possibly wish to meet. A year on, he's never had to apologise to "do better" he's just a good man who doesn't need fixing. Feel free to direct message me. You sound super switched on. The longer you go without your ex the scales will continue to lift xxx

Thank you so much for that post. He sent me a message to say he still loves me and he is concentrating on us. I replied if he had told his friend this and he said he 'wasn't going to message her anymore' basically ghost her.

Then I told him that is not fair on her, she needs to know and he should message and tell her. I also said I'd like a screenshot to prove it.

He then said he wasn't going to do it in a message!

Eurgh he's awful

He has mentioned him meeting someone else - as a way to get over our marriage and that he feels if I don't give him an inclination that we can try resolve things then he will have to try meet other people as a way to get over me

Seriously OP, that alone should tell you what you need to know!

You can't polish a turd, and neither could any of the other millions of women in the world.

I speak from experience on this - stop engaging with his nonsense and communicate about the children only.

He's rotten to the core, protect your peace.

All talk no action.

If you let him back he will tell you incessantly about how he has changed, his therapist thinks he's changed, this random woman he is flaunting in your face says he has changed but you're too ungrateful to see it. So then you question your reality maybe he has changed but nothing is ever good enough for you etc etc etc. The confusion continues and nothing has changed.

If it appears that he changes in the future be assured that he will still be abusive just in ways that an outsider wouldn't be able to spot.

He’s got no intention of stopping with this woman because it’s working - he’s got you worrying she is going to get the husband you wanted. That’s why he’s doing this, to make you jealous and question whether he’s changed and could be an amazing husband to you. It’s pretty transparent, he’s spelling it out for you - ‘oh ive changed and I want you to have the benefit of it so promise me you’re getting back on board or i’ll have to go off with this other woman’.

But it’s all talk as you know. Please try and get rid of the gremlin that says what if she gets this amazing guy because he really has changed. If he had he wouldn’t be still in contact with her and evading your requests to finish this ‘friendship’.

Not to mention, even if he suddenly turned into an amazing partner how would that change that he apparently has little concern for his kids and has taken very little action regarding you? He could pretend to be an amazing guy for her, sure, but thats easily enough done without the pressures of parenting and without the weight of history and the shitty things he’s done as a husband to contend with.

Honestly, every time you allow his promises and veiled threats to take his new shiny amazing guy persona elsewhere to make you
doubt your decision, you’re playing right into his hands.

He's messaged his friend saying he isn't over me.

I have told him to leave me alone and apparently so has she....

This line sums it up:

He will not agree he was emotionally abusive

That's because he still is. He's busy learning from therapy how to hide it better.

@MondayYogurt

This line sums it up:

He will not agree he was emotionally abusive

That's because he still is. He's busy learning from therapy how to hide it better.

I know. I managed to get him to admit to being controlling but only because I explained what controlling meant. He thought it was locking someone in a house and not letting them see anyone. I explained this is not the case and told him how he controlled me which then he admitted that in that case, yes he was controlling.

Why am I like this? I must have some sort of extreme trauma bond to him.

Sorry I can't reply to your reply if that makes sense?. I swear if he wasn't your husband I'd think it was indeed my ex. He's unbelievably similar which is why I'm 100% certain he's an absolute shit excuse for a human being. He's obviously got away with this behaviour for so long and it's the only way he'll continue to be. I can most definitely also reassure you that when you're free of this man (granted having children means you never actually are totally free) you will feel so much better in time. You begin to breathe out, remember who you were before. Let people in in real
Life who will most likely feed back that they never liked him or comment about how much more relaxed you seem. This is all your future to look forward to and actually I'm excited for you because I've done it. I pity anyone who is my exes next victim and feel he should come with a health warning but my favourite phrase is "not my pig, not my farm". Do yourself and your children justice. Cut him off and look up the grey rock technique. Basically give them nothing. No attention, no anger, no doubts, nothing. You can be confident that no woman is getting this "better version" He can do best behaviour for a while (I'm sure it's how he snared you in the first place) It won't last. He's incapable. You however seem to have so much emotional intelligence. You'll be absolutely fine. Single is way better than stuck in a shit relationship where your needs aren't being met leaving your feeling not good enough is the worst. Really rooting for you!!! There'll be good days and bad days but they gradually shift whereby you look one day and just don't recognise the person you became xxx