Page 2 | DP driving me made with personal hygiene

BlingLoving · 19/01/2022 12:30

I don't get this, even if it's depression, that doesn't mean he gets to just ignore it. He needs to then seek help.

OP, mental health is NOT an excuse for poor behaviour towards other people, not even your partner.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 19/01/2022 12:56

He sounds deeply boring! And that he's checked out of the relationship and life in general. Please tell me you don't have kids.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 19/01/2022 12:58

Rather than focus on the hygiene, how about you get him to do more exercise, and you can join him so make it a couple activity? A walk everyday, home workouts, maybe getting him a bike, park run. And you should try and join him with it too, where possible - healthy habits form a healthy mind after all. Is there DIY or gardening he can do?

I know you are well meaning but fuck me, she's not his mum. He's a grown adult. As the old saying goes: Women, you are not rehabilitation centres for badly raised men… It’s not your job to fix him, change him, parent or raise him. You want a partner not a project.

ComtesseDeSpair · 19/01/2022 13:09

@UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea

Rather than focus on the hygiene, how about you get him to do more exercise, and you can join him so make it a couple activity? A walk everyday, home workouts, maybe getting him a bike, park run. And you should try and join him with it too, where possible - healthy habits form a healthy mind after all. Is there DIY or gardening he can do?

I know you are well meaning but fuck me, she's not his mum. He's a grown adult. As the old saying goes: Women, you are not rehabilitation centres for badly raised men… It’s not your job to fix him, change him, parent or raise him. You want a partner not a project.

This. God. It’s depressing the things some women will put up with to have a pair of trousers around the place.

It’s one thing practically supporting somebody who might be depressed, but quite another to be at the point where their behaviour and attitude is ruining your own life and making you miserable as well, and still being encouraged to give more of yourself to their problems.

GizmosEveningBath · 19/01/2022 13:11

Oh how horrible for you OP. I had a boyfriend who became like this and I am so glad it all came out before we got married.

Whatever the cause, he needs to want to help himself, you cannot drag him out of it. If he doesnt want to change, then you have to decide for yourself if it is something you want to accept in a relationship.

Ancientdreams · 19/01/2022 13:20

Exactly. They will only change if they want to or if they think it’s important which a lot of people don’t.

In my experience, even when someone is told about their personal hygiene it makes no difference (thinking of colleagues in particular.)

19Bears · 19/01/2022 13:37

Yep, people who ignore their personal hygiene don't easily change things, and sometimes dig their heels in even more, bizarrely. My dh brushes his teeth once a week, has lost teeth, will not go to the dentist (not out of fear, just laziness) and frankly lies in bed breathing out foul air all night while I'm supposed to somehow go to sleep.
When I finally pulled him up about it as part of a conversation about how unhappy I was and that our marriage was in trouble, he agreed he needed to change. Did he? Take a wild guess. Even the threat of losing his wife and his family lifestyle isn't enough to make him change. I just don't think he gets it.

I get you @RachD90, you feel like it's a trivial thing to bring up, and you feel as if you're unfairly criticising or nagging, but ffs, toddlers know they have to have a wash and look after their teeth. We were even watching the Apprentice last week when they were marketing toothbrushes to children, and it didn't cause one flicker of realisation that he as a 53 year old man can't do what a child does every day. He's just oblivious.

I really feel your pain, OP, and I don't know what the solution is for you. I know what it is for me! You are in no way being unreasonable though, if that's what you're worried about

Original poster

RachD90 · 19/01/2022 14:12

@19Bears 100% it feels like you are nagging and acting like his mother but my point is I wouldn't have to "nag" you if you weren't acting like a child and just did it off your own back! When I do bring it up it sometimes has the opposite effect of him going even longer just to spite me for "nagging" so can't win either way.

I think a lot of the replies are right and I'm lucky that we aren't married and don't have kids, which is I guess why I'm thinking about it so much right now as I still have the chance to get out before being more invested if that's what I feel is needed. It doesn't feel like worth ending our relationship over but it is impacting my mental health and could just be the start of more problems down the line

Appreciate all the advice as sometimes you just need people to give you a reality check that his behaviour isn't acceptable!

OP posts:

TheFoundation · 19/01/2022 14:24

@elelel

Depressed people aren’t dicks. Most people with depression, if their partner tells them that an aspect of their behaviour incredibly simple to change is upsetting them, will try their hardest to do something about it.

That's not really how depression works. You don't just 'try' your way out of it for someone else.

Nobody's suggesting he tries his way out of depression. They're suggesting that he tries to have a shower. It's nothing like the same.

OP, are you actually concerned that he might have depression? And if he does, and refuses to look into treatment, are you going to accept living this way?

I don't think abrupt is right, but knowing your boundaries and clearly stating them is important. 'I need you to have a shower otherwise I'll be sad' isn't the same as 'I need you to have a shower, otherwise we can't sleep in the same bed', or 'I need you to start having regular showers, otherwise I'll be reconsidering this relationship'

He's doing something unbearable to you, knowingly. He's choosing it. Make some boundaries and decide what will happen if your needs aren't met. Not washing is absolutely a dealbreaker.

todaysdilemma · 19/01/2022 14:31

@ComtesseDeSpair

Don't be daft. You're not supposed to be in a relationship for just the good times. Given this has never been a problem before and we have all just lived through a pandemic that's affected mental health, it's perfectly reasonable to want to help your partner as much as you can before giving up. And trying different tactics before you realise it's not working.

You too may get sick, depressed or physically disabled. I'm sure you'd like to think you wouldn't just be dumped at the first sign you're struggling. Community and relationships are built on assuming the best in people we live until they prove us wrong. It would be a lonely, isolationist life otherwise. Can you imagine if all the men started walking out on women with undiagnosed pnd (who also won't accept it's a problem) that doesn't get resolved within a time frame? You have zero understanding of depression if you think he's doing this just to be lazy or spiteful. Maybe he is, but maybe he isn't and that's for the OP to determine her breaking point.

But we don't all come from a position of hating and resenting the men we choose to live with. Sure, he may be a lost case, but he certainly deserves another concerted try before she packs and leaves.

ComtesseDeSpair · 19/01/2022 14:38

@todaysdilemma. After a long time reading Relationships threads, I find most women are actually pretty good at working out for themselves whether their partner’s bad behaviour is due to something out of his control or a mental health problem or whether they are being being unreasonable in their (usually pretty reasonable) expectations. And that by the time they’re posting about it on MN they actually know, deep down, that if he can make the effort to shower when he wants to see his friends and to leave the house to see those friends, then his choice not to wash the rest of the time and to spend his time playing computer games rather than with his partner - even when she has told him that both of these things really upset her - are just that: choices.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/01/2022 14:43

How would you go about giving this man another concerted try?. We are not these people's mums nor should such men be viewed as our project and or fixer upper for improvement.

I am certain OP even now does not resent him totally but resentment can and does build. Such is corrosive to a relationship.

TBH if he spent as much time on his relationship with OP as his work and gaming then this would not have happened. He does not care enough to repair this and nor is he showing any signs of actually wanting to. OP's an option here, not a priority.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 19/01/2022 14:44

If I spent two years sitting around in my pjs, not showering or brushing my teeth, gaming, not going out and not responding to encouragement/requests from my partner to change I don't think I would have any cause for complaint if they left.

How many chances do you give him? They're not married and they don't have kids.

barbiesshrimp · 19/01/2022 14:49

I've lived every word, especially obsessing over hygiene, especially sharing a bed. We had other bad habits besides not showering enough too

For me it got better, my oh's poor hygiene was depression/ anxiety related. I had to keep nagging though and had several arguments

Awkward as it is, do not stop bringing it up and be frank with your feelings

You've tired the coy, nicely-nicely approach and love discovered it doesn't work. Be honest, sometimes people need to feel shame - the fact that he has the sense to shower around other people... he needs to respect you too and realise you can also smell him

todaysdilemma · 19/01/2022 15:05

[quote ComtesseDeSpair]@todaysdilemma. After a long time reading Relationships threads, I find most women are actually pretty good at working out for themselves whether their partner’s bad behaviour is due to something out of his control or a mental health problem or whether they are being being unreasonable in their (usually pretty reasonable) expectations. And that by the time they’re posting about it on MN they actually know, deep down, that if he can make the effort to shower when he wants to see his friends and to leave the house to see those friends, then his choice not to wash the rest of the time and to spend his time playing computer games rather than with his partner - even when she has told him that both of these things really upset her - are just that: choices.[/quote]
I would suggest not basing your opinion of relationships in real life (and the consequent advice) on an online board. What people post here is just a snapshot of an entire life together. As an example you don't even know how long OP has been in her relationship. Or what he was like before the pandemic. If her DP has been a good partner for 10 years and is only now exhibiting this behaviour, is that the same problem as a DP of 1 year who's always been lazy? If he had early onset dementia (he obvs doesn't but if he did), would we telling her he's a lazy chancer?

And not all the advice on these boards is good, because there's a lot of projection, and in most cases it will be negative. Sometimes common sense, empathy and real life experience of relationships can also go a long way- not everyone has come to a decision on what the problem is and what to do. What people want is different experiences and solutions and they can pick what suits their life best. I'm not a medical professional, neither are you, to diagnose this man. So, offering OP solutions on how to get through are as important as telling her she needs to LTB.

Pallisers · 19/01/2022 15:09

Sure, he may be a lost case, but he certainly deserves another concerted try before she packs and leaves.

Why? what has he done that means he deserves this other than be this woman's partner. The diagnosis of depression has come from posters on MN - he doesn't actually have a diagnosis of depression you know.

She has tried talking to him nicely, joking gently, outright saying it bluntly and his response has been to create such an atmosphere she feels she can no longer raise it. What would a "concerted effort" actually look like.

What does SHE deserve do you think?

OP,. only you can decide if this is a dealbreaker. Not washing combined with having retreated to a life of work and gaming would certainly be enough for me. It only isn't enough if you think you are stuck with someone unless they are abusive. That isn't the case. You aren't married and don't have children - you can end this relationship for any reason that strike you as important enough and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

todaysdilemma · 19/01/2022 15:16

@AttilaTheMeerkat

How would you go about giving this man another concerted try?. We are not these people's mums nor should such men be viewed as our project and or fixer upper for improvement.

I am certain OP even now does not resent him totally but resentment can and does build. Such is corrosive to a relationship.

TBH if he spent as much time on his relationship with OP as his work and gaming then this would not have happened. He does not care enough to repair this and nor is he showing any signs of actually wanting to. OP's an option here, not a priority.

Do you really think in a civilised society, only mums and therapists help people?! That wanting to help and support people we love is a chore we must never endure? How on earth can changing your approach from nagging to trying a more 'teams' approach be a bad thing? If it fails, sure, you know you've tried everything.

You have the government, medical professionals and every large organisation trying to educate people on mental health and how to support. The least you can expect from a partner who likely knows you better than anyone is they will care enough to find ways to get through. Nagging him has not worked. And frankly, enough people in depressive episodes are in denial. Maybe she'll get him out of it, maybe she won't - but she's here to find ways and methods to do that before she gives up.

Also do we really think in long term relationships, people stay fit, healthy and their best selves for the entirety. His behaviour has changed after a pandemic, it's behaviour a lot of people have turned to. Wfh has completely changed our lives and motivations, it's caused a huge mental health crisis we are only now realising the impact of - some people take longer to adapt. Some people may never adapt. And if he never changes, she'll know she did her best. And that's all we owe anyone we decide to commit to. That they do their absolute best before they walk away.

BlueStripedTowel · 19/01/2022 15:17

@RachD90

Feeling rather helpless hence why I've found myself here for advice.

Both myself and DP have been working from home since start of the pandemic and his personal hygiene standards have fallen off of a cliff. Always used to take care of himself, showered daily and now he showers about once a week. He rarely goes out, never goes to the gym anymore and spends a lot of time gaming. To me there is just a basic need to shower at least every other day. I've tried to raise the issue several times - tried to be nice about it, make a joke of it and then finally just directly said take a bl**dy shower. The last time I brought it up his repsonse was that it had only been 1 day he skipped a shower (lies), stop monitoring when i am showering, I'm an adult and you're not my mother etc etc. So it's created an atmosphere where I now can't raise how I feel.

May seem a bit of a trivial matter but it's got to the point I feel like I can't raise the issue and I'm spending nights upset whenever it gets to the point he hasn't showered for 3 days. Then he will go for a shower, everything's fine and the cycle repeats each week. Obviously it's ruining any intimacy in the relationship and even sharing a bed is difficult to the point that I'm now obsessively cleaning the house & changing the sheets. The fact is that anytime he goes to see friends or family, he will always take a shower but he doesn't seem to give a cr*p about making a basic effort for me.

This isn't something I want to leave DP over as otherwise I'm genuinely happy but just feeling at my wits end and can feel that I'm starting to be quite abrupt to him as I'm just lost for any other way to deal with it.

How can I bring it up again and create some positive change rather than just another argument? :(

@RachD90 is this my DP?! But yep seriously I'm going through the exact same. My DP used to have so much pride when going to office, showering, dressing smart etc but since homeworking from the first lockdown it's adhoc showers, rarely brushing teeth etc and anytime I bring up how long its been since last shower, moans at me and tells me he's a grown-up!

It's really affected our intimacy too as I don't want to go near someone who hasn't showered in 4 days.

He spends far too long gaming, he needs to be in an office environment to be supervised, some people need that formal aspect of work!

Sorry to hear you're in the position too

Pallisers · 19/01/2022 15:21

How on earth can changing your approach from nagging to trying a more 'teams' approach be a bad thing?

where do you get that the OP was nagging? She wasn't.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 19/01/2022 15:21

Don't nag, don't worry about nagging, don't spend time and energy ruminating how to get a grown man to wash himself so he doesn't stink. You are not married and you are not tied to him by children. You do not have to limit yourself to a smelly future with a dirty man who slobs around gaming and never goes out.

Please don't throw yourself away like this.

whenwilliwillibefamous · 19/01/2022 15:27

Move out to your Mum's and point out that this relationship is clearly not working for him, he games all the time and lives with a woman he doesn't want to have sex with and he's become a stinking resentful shadow of the man you met.
I mean ... he's not really living his best life, is he?

Personally I think the relationship is dead in the water - if it gets to the point where you have to tell another compos mentis adult to wash, and instead of "oh god has it really been 3 days, I'm so sorry" you get teenage backchat, the respect is dead.

But, you know, you're on the ground, we're not. If the shock of you moving out doesn't prompt a rapid turnaround then you're better off as a free woman anyway.

(to cover the smell!)

todaysdilemma · 19/01/2022 15:27

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/apr/21/i-wash-my-hands-and-genitals-the-rest-i-gave-up-how-the-pandemic-changed-our-hygiene-habits

Something to read OP, so you realise he and you are not alone.

Chloemol · 19/01/2022 15:31

He doesn’t care about you

Personally I would now be sleeping in another room and staying away from him

Byebyeboris · 19/01/2022 15:33

Loving the replies. On the other shower thread so many people seem to think it’s fine to only shower once or twice a week. This fella doesn’t shower for three days and OP is being told to LTB.

OP I wouldn’t find this acceptable at all and I don’t blame you being fed up about it.

FictionalCharacter · 19/01/2022 15:40

[quote ComtesseDeSpair]@todaysdilemma. After a long time reading Relationships threads, I find most women are actually pretty good at working out for themselves whether their partner’s bad behaviour is due to something out of his control or a mental health problem or whether they are being being unreasonable in their (usually pretty reasonable) expectations. And that by the time they’re posting about it on MN they actually know, deep down, that if he can make the effort to shower when he wants to see his friends and to leave the house to see those friends, then his choice not to wash the rest of the time and to spend his time playing computer games rather than with his partner - even when she has told him that both of these things really upset her - are just that: choices.[/quote]
This. If he isn’t too depressed to shower before he sees friends and family, he isn’t too depressed to shower before he gets into bed with his wife. Plus, people who neglect themselves because of depression are aware of it, often ashamed, and don’t get defensive about it like he does.