This is my issue, isn’t it?

[StartingAgain33]

Be kind please! As a side note I am going to therapy and am also currently starting medicine for adhd (stimulants) which are not doing good things for my anxiety.

I’ve been seeing a guy for around 3.5 months. started slow at first with one date a week for quite a while and then in December agreed we wanted to see eachother more. Things then ramped up, led by him, and we spent lots of time together over the Xmas holidays including him inviting me to meet his brother and his family, and going to his home town to meet several of his extended family and all of his home friends who is very close to. It went really well and I got along with everyone and we both agreed it had been lovely. He has also just suggested I meet his dad (who he has a tricky relationship with so it’s quite sensitive). He took me to his mums grave also.

He’s consistent with communication, and generally a kind person. He looked after me when I was sick over Xmas too. He’s quite a kind and sensitive soul, tends towards a bit of depression and has opened up to me about this and let me see him sad about things like his mum dying which I guess shows trust.

However he hasn’t said anything much about how he feels about me. He’ll compliment my physical appearance, but on our feelings we are both very tight lipped. I struggle with saying these things first but at times have felt very close to and even in love with him (when we were spending lots of time together). I very awkwardly asked if we were boyfriend and girlfriend on the weekend (that sounds so juvenile, I’m 37!) as I felt uneasy that we hadn’t talked about exclusivity etc and he said ‘I guess so? and that he’d been assuming we were exclusive anyway. He said he didn’t know how people had the time to multidate and that he doesn’t ‘need to’. I said I wanted to know he didn’t want to date others because he liked me, and he sort of mumbled ‘well yeah’ or something to that effect which I took to mean maybe he’s a commitment phobe and will never be able to say he loves me (god it looks ridiculous written down like this), when I think he was probably just a bit taken aback as he thought it was obvious? He also said he’d never labelled things in the past, but he had a girlfriend for five years who he was with seriously and he calls her his ex so I think what he means is he never felt they needed to have a formal chat about it; it just happened? But maybe that’s wishful thinking.

I worry that without verbal reassurance I will start to feel needy as this has happened in past relationships and it has gotten on partners nerves (I’m a lot better now in general).

I’m already feeling insecure and am overthinking the last couple of weeks because we went back to our lives (ie not living in each others pockets but still seeing eachother a few times a week and texting or speaking every day) and the transition has been hard. It almost feels like a rejection.

He has also been distant and distracted, perhaps because he has been moving house and also work stress, but I’m used to feeling like I have his full attention and he’s frequently not listening to what I say / going to check his phone while I talk to text friends, do life admin etc. It feels disrespectful and makes me feel insecure; even though i know I’m probably on hyper alert for ‘signs’ he isn’t not into me and this (like all the others) will go wrong.

In my more confident moments I get the sense that he also feels strongly about me and is too shy to say anything. But then I start stressing about thinking about the amount of people on mumsnet who say you need to formally define a relationship etc and if they won’t they’re not committed etc.

I’m being silly, aren’t I? I think I just need some reassurance this is heading in the right direction and some men struggle with verbalising things.

It's tricky isn't it. There's a fine line between positively reassuring each other and understanding each others needs, and anxiously seeking out constant reassurance (which is draining on both sides).

I know some men can typically struggle with verbalising things (and many women/other genders do too), but this can't be an excuse/free pass for them not to vocalise how they feel about you/the relationship.

Communication is really important in relationships. How would you feel comfortable approaching your partner about how you are feeling? Perhaps a simple "hey - just checking in as I really enjoyed the time we spent together over Christmas and I'm looking forward to spending more time with you. Wanted to see if you felt the same?"

(That could be an absolutely terrible message, and perhaps it's better having a quick chat in person).

At 3.5 months in I think you need to relax. It sounds like things are going really well, that the increase and then decrease of contact is totally consistant with having more, and then less free time over/after xmas. If you see him a couple of times a week and text or chat every day too then it sounds like a good, healthy relationship. Try to enjoy it and not to overthink. (And that comes from a huge overthinker :) )

Dont expect the love convo to happen too quickly, but also don’t be scared to say it if you feel it. I told my current partner I felt like that after 6 months…it took him a further 7 to reciprocate but now 2 years in I feel like he’s just as in love/invested as I am.

Remember, if this is a life partnership you have years to be together and say all the things you need too, so slow down and just savour this bit if you can.

@HomicidalPsychoJungleCat that’s interesting your Partner took 7 more months, in all honesty I think I would struggle with that and have all the ‘shoulds’ running around in my head which would ruin the relationship for me. For some reason I feel like people ‘should know’ around 3 months in which is why I think I’m flipping out a bit. Whereas I’m sure for many that would be early. I love that you had the confidence to say it and be ok that he wasn’t there yet. I’m pretty sure I’ve pulled the plug on a couple of budding relationships where I felt they ‘should’ feel more / be saying or doing certain things and that anxiety means I convince myself it isn’t going to work and end it prematurely. One guy was quite blindsided by it and looking back I think it may have been premature but I just couldn’t handle the uncertainty!

Also one of my best friends has a husband who said l love you early and he is always very vocal about how amazing she is around everyone so I think sometimes I compare that with the guys I go out with who tend to be quieter types and think it means they don’t like me enough. Ironically sometimes I do worry a little that he is an emotionally manipulative character and the constant praise in front of others is a little bit of a show / is used to keep her sweet so she can overlook some of his bad traits (snappy outbursts etc)

Some people are not used to talking about their feelings. I remember being completely frozen with horror when a girl (who I was mad about) asked me how I felt about her. I was maybe 20? Had no idea what to say - and yet was acutely aware that I failed that test completely.

I don't know how old your guy is - but given you're 37 I would reckon by now he should be better at this. But nevertheless he's not a lost cause. He must have feelings so it's just a case of getting him to feel comfortable talking about them - if you feel he's worth the effort.

But if it's this hard getting him to talk about good feelings, think what it's going to be like getting him to be honest, open and sensitive with bad stuff...

I'd say don't make your life revolve around this guy.

Do you have other things to focus on?

For some reason I feel like people ‘should know’ around 3 months in which is why I think I’m flipping out a bit.

Anyone can be nice for three months OP.

And some people are nice but not right for you and you won't know that until later on as it takes time to get to know someone in a healthy and sensible way.

You sound like you have a tendency (I'm just basing this on the way you write and the 3 month feelings benchmark you seem to project onto relationships) to get intense, quickly.

He's mirrored this / genuinely wanted to get intense quickly too, which is why you ended up spending loads of time together very quickly (you've only been seeing him 14 weeks!!) and it sounds like it was almost a bit of escapism, something romantic for you to both enjoy and now reality is here and neither of you are really sure how well you know the other one so it's all a bit awkward.

You've sort of very quickly raced ahead (meeting each other's people, spending lots of time together, visits to his late mother's grave etc) without doing the ground work that usually comes before these things, where you get to know each other properly, finding out if you're compatible in lots of different ways. This means you've sort of both put the relationship on a pedestal as you've done some of the big / gesture / support things without doing the normal, healthy stuff first. So the pedestal is on rocky ground.

Can you try to open up the rest of your life a bit so it isn't just filled with him and with thoughts of him? Do you have a tendency for relationships to feel all consuming to you? I did for years and it was such a relief when I managed to stop that and genuinely feel able to let a relationship develop naturally without expectations of specific timelines / arbitrary deadlines etc. Took me ages to get there though!

@youvegottenminuteslynn interesting, tbh yes I do have a very full life outside of him which is why I was only seeing him once a week until mid-December, and then it ramped up because of xmas holidays / covid and not wanting to see too many people / going away with him etc. I was actually unsure about going away with him for a full five days and posted on mumsnet and got lots of responses saying that it wasn't such a big deal and I should go if I wanted to, so I thought why not, would be nice to get some countryside and see how we fare in eachother's company like that.

We've now gone back to a normal pattern, ie maybe once in the week and then on the weekend too, and it does feel like we've gone back to the 'getting to know you stage' which is probably healthy.

TBH I was quite nervous about going away with him but I didn't feel like 3 months in was too early to meet people he's close to. It gives you a better idea of a person and I was very reassured that I got along with them all so well. I do agree the grave bit was a bit over the top and I found myself a bit annoyed at being almost pulled into his grief. I also had to ask for some time alone quite firmly as he seemed to always want me by his side which I find suffocating.

It's good to know the 3 month thing isn't really a big deal. I'm just a bit confused as the amount of times I read on mumsnet 'you just know' etc and 3 months is seen to be well enough time to get 'know'. But I don't 'know', and I don't think he does either, and perhaps that's just fine for this stage in the game.

By 'normal, healthy things' you just mean dating right? Like we were doing up till end of December? W

I didn't actually think of him too much at all until the past couple of weeks, which I think is a combination of going from intense back to normal, and also him seeming a bit distracted which I guess is as much to do with his move and work stress as it is to do with our intensity.

Also I've just started ADHD meds which are basically speed and yesterday I was massively anxious and hyperfocusing which has not helped. I'll give it a few weeks and see how it settles down.

I think the reason it seems juvenile is that it is. You're minimising and doubting your feelings, you're scared to speak, to express your feelings, you're guessing at what he feels.

With kindness, I'd suggest you need to start dealing with your emotions in a more adult way. Accept yourself. If you're 'needy', you need a partner who is ok with 'neediness', rather than to question if you are somehow faulty/need to change/need to chill out about it.

If you feel rejected, tell him you feel rejected. If you can't, then he's not the right person for you, because the right person will be somebody you can open up to.

I think firstly you need to learn how to open up within yourself, without criticism. If you acknowledge your feelings, and the first thing that comes to mind is 'You're being silly' or 'you're being needy', then of course you won't expect anybody else to accept how you feel; it's not what you're doing yourself.

Frankly it sounds like one way or another, quite a lot of stuff about him is pissing you off, but you think you should be able to put up with it. It's not the case. If you feel rejected, pulled into someone's grief, uneasy about un-had conversations, needy, this might not be the relationship for you.

Just because he's a nice guy, that doesn't mean you're compatible.

@thefoundation thanks, I get what you're saying and I'm making an effort to be better at speaking up/feeling my feelings and being honest about who I am - hence the chat on the weekend. I hadn't actually been storing it up for ages as it was only since xmas that I felt we should have a chat to make sure we were on the same page. So I do feel I'm making progress, but I am working on being more confident in my tone and unattached to outcomes.

I agree, someone should be able to reassure me if I'm feeling 'needy' -i did actually ask him for reassurance on something last week and he gave it which was good.

I do feel a little rejected but I also know it's mostly in my head so I'm not sure I want to talk to him about it and make it into a big issue. I can have an issue with overthinking and overtalking about things / seeing the worst which can make things seem a bit heavy and exhaust people (including me), so part of looking for reassurance online is so that I can then go back into the relationship and assume the best, as lots of signs point to good progress and I don't feel insecure most of the time. If it continues to be an issue I will bring it up with him.

I also have an issue with not accepting reassurance / needing to hear it said in an exact way or I feel even worse - this is a challenging area for me - so I am being mindful of that and looking to self soothe first. This is something my therapist has encouraged me to do and I think it's right.

I do feel a little rejected but I also know it's mostly in my head so I'm not sure I want to talk to him about it and make it into a big issue

Where would something need to be in you for you to accept it, rather than reject it? Why is something ok to disregard if it's 'in your head'? I know it means, essentially 'I know I'm just making it up/making it into a problem when it's not', but the fact is, this IS causing you an issue. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone else or be accepted by anyone else, but if people don't accept your feelings for what they are, then you need not to be near them. That's basic life management: choose people you feel good with to spend your time with, and ditch people who make you feel low or make you question yourself. If you start accepting your own feelings, this will come naturally, because you won't be questioning whether you're 'right' or not. It doesn't actually matter if you're right. There is no right.

The example I usually give is a fear of spiders (in the UK): It's a feeling that makes absolutely no sense at all. There is literally nothing at all to fear. A sensitive partner will ensure that you never have to see a spider, on their watch. An unworthy partner will tell you you're being silly, and dismiss what you feel.

What you feel is who you are. You need to accept your feelings, and if you want a partner, you need one who also respects your feelings, and who you can open up to. If these requirements aren't met, it's unlikely you'll be able to have a healthy relationship, and it'll be the reason you end up feeling needy: You don't accept your needs, so you don't express them, and then they don't get met.

Thanks @TheFoundation - this is strikes a chord - You don't accept your needs, so you don't express them, and then they don't get met.

I will talk to him about how I felt a bit rejected. It's tricky as I'm also quite tight lipped and not good at showing affection through words (I'm great in other ways) so it feels slightly hypocritical for me to ask for it when I'm not giving it! I also want to experiment with saying more about how I'm feeling when it's positive to show him it's safe, as I get the feeling he is unlikely to lead and one of us has to!

I have told him about the adhd diagnosis which i was really unsure about as it felt very vulnerable and I don't want to lean on him too much at this stage and he's being supportive which is good. It gives me more confidence to be myself.

I’m going to counter the above opinion by saying I think OP you are doing the right thing by trying to self-soothe and understand what your anxiety is about rather then take it all to a new partner looking for reassurance.

I agree with your therapist and it mirrors the advice I’ve been given by mine - it doesn’t ever really work to look to him to take away the uncertainty; at best the comfort is only ever temporary.

I don’t agree that all your feelings need to be accepted and are valid to take to him. Sometimes it’s good to recognise what is “our stuff” and nothing to do with the relationship and try to sort it out ourselves. My therapist talks of - in the early days at least - trying not to take my ‘wounded child’ to my partner and to try to show up as my adult and equal self. My new partner seems much more secure and quite boundaried, and doesn’t love bomb or want constant contact. But he is consistent, affectionate, and very lovely. I don’t think it would be helpful for me to tell him, 3 months in, that I panic if I haven’t heard from him for 24 hours. There’s nothing unreasonable about us not speaking for 24 j hours, and I recognise that I don’t want to start moulding our communication pattern around my anxious need for reassurance - that would be miserable for us both ultimately.

I also want to experiment with saying more about how I'm feeling when it's positive to show him it's safe, as I get the feeling he is unlikely to lead and one of us has to!
I was going to ask why you were leaving it entirely up to him to set the tone, but it sounds like you've already got that far yourself.
What kind of response would you expect from him, though? If you're brave enough to say what you think and he doesn't poohpooh it, is that enough, or would you expect him to make a declaration in return?

@ibelieveinmirrorballs

Lots of what you think you've read there you haven't read, or have read and misunderstood. Nobody has said that a person needs to take all their feelings to their partner so that they can receive reassurance.

@ibelieveinmirrorballs yes, this resonates with what I'm trying to say. If I know I have a pattern of needing reassurance and overthinking, I don't want to start it here - I think it's better to lead with confidence when I can. I have already said I can be anxious and asked him for reassurance on one thing, and I find when I do that it often feeds anxiety rather than soothes it.

I do think there's something to what @TheFoundation is saying about accepting your own emotion but I think in my instance I do need to be careful about when I share it as it can tip the balance into parent / child relationship and also give all the power to him when the reality is, he's probably as nervous as I am!

You are saying @TheFoundation if you feel needy you need to be able to express that or he’s not right for you; if you feel rejected then tell him.

I’d say - first talk through those feelings of neediness or rejection, perhaps with a therapist, to understand whether it’s anything that a new partner can or should address with you.

@ravenmum I think it depends what I ended up saying. At the moment I don't have any massive statements apart from maybe 'I think I can see a potential future for us and I have noticed at times feeling quite strong feelings for you' or something like that! Which is quite wishy washy in itself really but I guess normal for this stage in the game!

@ibelieveinmirrorballs what it's worth my therapist thinks I am jumping to very big conclusions and that the guy I'm dating is clearly showing how important I am to him through his actions. He said my attachment issues were playing up as we had had an intense period of time together and were both 're-integrating' into our lives and that was likely to make us both feel a little strange and distant. He did note how hard I found it to talk to him about but also said that I don't need to rush to conclusions and waiting a few weeks to see how things settle might be a good bet before bringing it up if I need to.

@StartingAgain33 I hear you. In my case my new partner responds kindly when I talk to him about anxious feelings, but I also sense he is not interested in being the parent. Which is fantastic because he views me as an accomplished exceptional woman he enjoys hanging out with as an equal, and not as an anxious mess who needs reassurance constantly. I think early stage relationships are very stressful for some people - I’m one of them - and it’s great you have a therapist to hand hold throughout this time.

To be honest op, I think actions speak louder than words.

I've been with my OH many years now and Omg is he crap at saying I love you etc. Always has been. He's not romantic whatsoever, but you wont meet a more devoted partner that can't do enough for me or my son who he taken on.
Then again I've had exes that have trotted out the ' I love you' card quite happily, and then been violent and abusive and all that kind of thing.

Perhaps try and take the emphasis away from what his words are and look at his actions. Perhaps that may give you the comfort and security you need?

It's real life, not a Disney movie OP. You don't need big romantic declarations to be happy in a relationship.

Forget what 'should' be or what you imagine it to be, he sounds like a lovely guy.

I've had the same experience as @baileys6904

While you're being more assertive about setting the tone, will you also tell him off for texting other people while you're talking? It is really rude. If you point it out, he might even up his game in other ways when he realises you expect a better quality boyfriend.

Thanks @baileys6904, yes I can get hung up / quite obsessed with words (almost ocd level, dissecting what people say etc) and I have always struggled to acknowledge when someone is showing me through actions. But the last guy I dated told me at three months abs then frequently and often whilst being a complete shit to be with on many levels so I know it isn’t everything!

@ibelieveinmirrorballs yea this is exactly it, I think this guy is similar in his approach; perhaps because he thinks it’s patently obvious we are together. I almost got the sense he was offended id asked. Multidating is just not a thing he does for instance so me needing to hear the word exclusive would not have crossed his mind.

@ravenmum I did actually ask him to put his phone away while we were eating the last time I saw him and he did without question. I’m going to bring it up if it keeps happening. It wasn’t so much like that before. He also brings the laptop into the bedroom to occasionally do life admin etc from bed in the day and I don’t like that either.