This is my issue, isn’t it?

[StartingAgain33]

Be kind please! As a side note I am going to therapy and am also currently starting medicine for adhd (stimulants) which are not doing good things for my anxiety.

I’ve been seeing a guy for around 3.5 months. started slow at first with one date a week for quite a while and then in December agreed we wanted to see eachother more. Things then ramped up, led by him, and we spent lots of time together over the Xmas holidays including him inviting me to meet his brother and his family, and going to his home town to meet several of his extended family and all of his home friends who is very close to. It went really well and I got along with everyone and we both agreed it had been lovely. He has also just suggested I meet his dad (who he has a tricky relationship with so it’s quite sensitive). He took me to his mums grave also.

He’s consistent with communication, and generally a kind person. He looked after me when I was sick over Xmas too. He’s quite a kind and sensitive soul, tends towards a bit of depression and has opened up to me about this and let me see him sad about things like his mum dying which I guess shows trust.

However he hasn’t said anything much about how he feels about me. He’ll compliment my physical appearance, but on our feelings we are both very tight lipped. I struggle with saying these things first but at times have felt very close to and even in love with him (when we were spending lots of time together). I very awkwardly asked if we were boyfriend and girlfriend on the weekend (that sounds so juvenile, I’m 37!) as I felt uneasy that we hadn’t talked about exclusivity etc and he said ‘I guess so? and that he’d been assuming we were exclusive anyway. He said he didn’t know how people had the time to multidate and that he doesn’t ‘need to’. I said I wanted to know he didn’t want to date others because he liked me, and he sort of mumbled ‘well yeah’ or something to that effect which I took to mean maybe he’s a commitment phobe and will never be able to say he loves me (god it looks ridiculous written down like this), when I think he was probably just a bit taken aback as he thought it was obvious? He also said he’d never labelled things in the past, but he had a girlfriend for five years who he was with seriously and he calls her his ex so I think what he means is he never felt they needed to have a formal chat about it; it just happened? But maybe that’s wishful thinking.

I worry that without verbal reassurance I will start to feel needy as this has happened in past relationships and it has gotten on partners nerves (I’m a lot better now in general).

I’m already feeling insecure and am overthinking the last couple of weeks because we went back to our lives (ie not living in each others pockets but still seeing eachother a few times a week and texting or speaking every day) and the transition has been hard. It almost feels like a rejection.

He has also been distant and distracted, perhaps because he has been moving house and also work stress, but I’m used to feeling like I have his full attention and he’s frequently not listening to what I say / going to check his phone while I talk to text friends, do life admin etc. It feels disrespectful and makes me feel insecure; even though i know I’m probably on hyper alert for ‘signs’ he isn’t not into me and this (like all the others) will go wrong.

In my more confident moments I get the sense that he also feels strongly about me and is too shy to say anything. But then I start stressing about thinking about the amount of people on mumsnet who say you need to formally define a relationship etc and if they won’t they’re not committed etc.

I’m being silly, aren’t I? I think I just need some reassurance this is heading in the right direction and some men struggle with verbalising things.

My x was amazing for 1.5yrs, then minor things slipped in. It’s very hard to know sometimes

I could’ve written this post a few years ago. I’m fairly insecure and I definitely have some attachment issues. I hate early stages of dating and I’m always fairly direct about how I feel and what I want.

I started dating someone (both female for context) and I really liked her. Got on very well but she never mentioned feelings, if I ever said anything about enjoying her company etc, usually over text as I find it hard to innitate that, she would just put a smiley face or say me too. She was quite relaxed about how often we saw each other. A few months in, I tried to raise our relationship status and she freaked out a bit frankly and also became quite distant. Her mum was ill and she was struggling financially, although I didn’t know how severe this was which was putting her in a bad place.

She broke things off when I pushed about us being in a relationship. I was gutted, I mean I don’t deal well with rejection anyway but there was something about her. And in hindsight, I had no idea why i was so fussed about things; she said we were exclusive, we did relationship things and plenty of non sex stuff. I backed right off and we stayed in touch and eventually things went back to how they were and a few months later, she finally agreed we were in a relationship. Took another 6 months for us to cross the ‘I love you’ bridge; I couldn’t bear to say it and not hear it back so I hinted towards it a few times and eventually it happened.

Few years on, we have a house, a dog and she is very vocal about how she feels about it and basically it couldn’t be better. Some people are slow burners. I struggled without hearing the words even though her actions said everything I needed to know.

I wouldn't see it as him being less interested, though - he might just be feeling more relaxed about being with you. But phone use as you talk is definitely only acceptable if you're googling something you're talking about :) That's not being needy; it's expecting a basic standard of courtesy.

That’s interesting @ravenmum, you probably have a point about him feeling more relaxed. To be fair he was looking up something we were talking about but it went on for too long and then he got distracted by a WhatsApp!

@Foreverlexicon that's a lovely story :)

Just as an update, I did talk to him yesterday as we’d had a slightly awkward Friday night where I didn’t think there was enough to say and we were scrambling for convo (something I’ve felt our last few dates and to be honest in quite a few of our early dates, which made me unsure about him until I just learned to relax with him and then it was lovely). I said things felt distant and he said he felt that too and that he was really stressed at the moment and feeling very unrooted (he’s had to move out of his place abruptly because of a terrible landlord and is in temporary accommodation). He also said he’d been trying to work out what he ‘should’ feel by now as it’s been a long time since he was this intimate with someone (7years).

I said it was a shame as I’d had a really nice time with him in his home town during the Xmas period meeting his family and friends, and he said that he felt bad about that because he could see it was really full on for me (I had said I needed some alone time while we were away as I was just recovering from an illness and five days with constant visits was a bit much, and tbh I had to work quite hard and ask repeatedly to get it which annoyed me). I reassured him I’d had a nice time, but he said he hadn’t really thought about what kind of message it gave (I guess that he’s serious about me) and he only realised while we were away. He hadn’t planned us spending so much time with his family, it happened because his friends got covid etc. he also admitted going to see his mums grave was intense. He felt really bad for putting me through it and cried. He also cried because he said that it had been a very long time since someone had needed ‘words of affirmation’ and the last time was with his dying brother, which made me feel like I was asking a lot when really I just wanted to hear he liked me?

He has been moving house since we got back so I do worry I’m being a bit unfair and rash putting him under this pressure. I have just come off some adhd drugs and I think they are making my anxiety awful. But it became clear he really is not good at reassurance and I do need that from time to time. He was just really quiet and had tears rolling down his face. He did say he had wanted to spend the weekend together to see how things went and go from there, and he wanted to ‘see how things’ go and ‘go with the flow’ but he could see I was analysing which made me feel quite invalidated.

By then I was hurt as it felt like he was regretting spending the time and I guess I pushed him away by saying that yes it did give a certain message to invite me to his brothers family at Xmas and then his hometown for five days after Xmas, and I’d had a good time, but also I had had doubts as to how much we got on up until we went away (this is true but I didn’t need to say it) and if it was going to back to distant and awkward again then perhaps we should think about whether this is right or not and that I didn’t want to spend another weekend feeling like that and he said ‘well maybe that tells us all we need to know’. I asked if he also felt a little unsure and he said he did worry about the fact he didn’t always feel desperate to see me (which I think is normal tbh but didn’t feel nice to hear).

So now I’m feeling horribly rejected but also like I’ve pushed him away because of my own defense mechanisms. I know this isn’t a simple one as I’ve been a little stand of fish with him all the way through and unsure, so I shouldn’t be so surprised and offended he is also so unsure but tbh I feel really sick and sad as I think he’s the nicest person I’ve met in years and he did at times make me feel so warm, calm and happy. I know I have my own massive defenses up due to complex grief and multiple breakups in the past few years and worry I’ve just been really self destructive here.

We said we’d take some time to think but I am not sure I can ever go back on what he said about not having meant to send that message by taking me away. It was him that pushed it, that wanted me to come away for the five days, that wouldn’t give me alone time, that took me to his mums grave ffs! So then to say he didn’t really mean it just feels so hurtful and like I’ve been messed around. He said he was having a lovely time and didn’t overthink it, so why is he doing that now and being distant? I don’t know. I’m very confused.

@TheFoundation @ibelieveinmirrorballs would love to hear your thoughts in particular.

I'm not the person you are waiting to hear back from, but just reading your post I was thinking that you are knee deep in therapy and he isn't OP. I wonder how self reflexive he is, if at all, whereas you are clearly used to looking at yourself. As much as you don't want to put your past trauma on him, I wonder if he has the same boundaries? That's not a judgement as such, you might just both be in very different places. Listen t yourself and trust your own feelings. If you sense he is uninterested, then listen to that, don't assume that is your stuff. Take care.

Thank you @coffeeisthebest, the weird thing is that I have often felt he is really into me (in a shy way) and that he is a little insecure and unable to show it. The way he looked at me while we were away, especially when I was with his family, was quite smitten. So I came away feeling really secure and looking forward to how things would develop. But now I’m not so sure. Either his defense mechanisms have kicked in (and it was scary for me too spending so much time with someone - we’d also spend most of the previous week together which was lovely) or he just has decided he’s not into me despite really seeming like he is. I’m confused and hurt.

The first time I saw him after the big intense visit I did ask him when and for how long he’d seen a therapist as he was crying (again) about his dead brother and had taken out his funeral memorial book for us to go through. I felt it was a bit much and was perfectly kind in the way I asked it, but I wonder if that gentle boundary was hurtful and he felt like he’d gone too far. I don’t know. I just don’t want to be someone’s therapist and he’d cried about 4/5 times about it (just gentle rolling tears, not bawling) and I kept feeling ‘pulled into’ his grief. I have a history of care taking and I’m tired of it. Maybe he’s sending that and that’s why he’s gone off me - he’s not going to be able to get the comfort he wants.

Oh yes, he needs more therapy. That would feel too overwhelming for most people, and if your history is codependence then it appears like you have repeated a pattern. Remember that we can only experience people as they are, so don't get too bogged down in what is his defense mechanisms or insecurities. Just experience him as he is. If he seemed smitten with you then, but is standoffish now then just take him as he is. If you don't want to be his counsellor, then, quite frankly, stop being one. If he keeps pulling you into his grief then you need to let him know you can't give him what he needs.

@coffeeisthebest is giving brilliant advice I think. I'm reading your posts OP through the lens not only of your experience, but also thinking about how I might react in similar circumstances.

It sounds to me as though he does indeed have a lot of unprocessed trauma to deal with. And as coffee says, that's for him to deal with and seek help for, and you are right for that person not to be you. Thinking about my own current situation (3 months into seeing someone who seems securely attached, I am not, and am trying not to 'take it' to him and to deal with it myself via therapy) it is just too much for you to be having to anticipate what he is going through and to be a passenger in this little maelstrom of his. It reminds me in part of what life felt like with my ex husband - like being strapped to a rollercoaster fluctuating according to the emotions he experienced on any particular day. It's too much - especially in these early days when we should be simply stacking up 'fun moments' which add up to a shared sense of excitement about seeing each other.

I don't doubt that he does like you, but the question I think you should take this time to ask yourself, is whether or not you can be bothered to be at the emotional beck and call of this man..? There to receive smitten glances when he's feeling it, or taken to dead relatives graves, or to be pulled back from when it suits.

As a side note, he does sound like he's oversharing things which just don't need to be said. For example, I can't imagine liking my current bloke any more than I do given we've known each other for 3 months. However, it would also be true to say that I don't always feel 'desperate' to see him. That would be a mad expectation. I think there's a jarring between you here in that he's oversharing and you're looking for perhaps a slightly excessive amount of reassurance.

Do you think you can calmly let it breathe for a few days and have a really good think about what you want in general, maybe write a lot of stuff down and decide to see where it takes you after a few days of thought?

Btw following on ref being his therapist - I recognised quite early on that I was doing 'that thing I do' of sort of leaning on this new man looking for him to save me from my feelings, to fix me, to make me feel better. I also sensed that this was not appropriate and may ruin this potentially good thing I had.

I therefore got myself a therapist, told new man about this, and specifically tried to avoid that sort of talk (in my case it was about my ex husband, it was about feeling emotional that I'd met a nice person who was being lovely to me, and the anxiety this was causing) with him from that point on. On a recent meeting, he asked me whether I discussed him/us with the therapist, and I replied that I did, and he said that was a very good thing, squeezed my hand, and that was that.

I'm hoping this is helpful to share - I do so because really that is what you would want to be seeing from him in some form or other, a commitment not to rely too much on you... this new person he should be wanting to form a healthy attachment with. Him crying several times in front of you in the first few weeks of knowing each other is not great, in my opinion. I also think fwiw that your alarm bells are sensitively chiming in here, this is you being boundaried and this is progress!

Thanks @ibelieveinmirrorballs and @coffeeisthebest, this all makes sense. I’ll take a few days to think.

It’s hard as I know that I am just as much part of the awkward atmosphere as he is, as I can feel myself tensing up and feeling insecure or annoyed etc, and then I’m acting distant as well. I also think you’re right in that I have probably been slightly excessive in asking for reassurance / anxious questioning which led him to say the thing about not being desperate to see me. Yesterday he said I was overthinking and we should just go with the flow and see how things go. He said he had a brilliant time while we were away but that we needed to test things out in real life which I agree with.

But then again he could have been more reassuring, couldn’t he? Instead of being defensive abs closing up he could have said some nice things - it was like getting blood out of a stone for him to say he liked me. He did profusely apologise for hurting me and cried about it but I just wanted some reassurance and I didn’t really get it. I don’t know.