God, I’m sick to death of both husband and son

[Secondnightblue]

My son doesn’t sleep. Three times I have been teased with him sleeping really well for 4-5 nights and I think we’ve turned a corner and then reverts to type.

I cannot talk about this with DH. He just brushes me off with the same phrases - that it’s normal (it isn’t) that DS might be in pain (DH is fucking obsessed with teething and keeps shoving teething gel on him) and that ‘we will get bad nights’ - well that would be fine if it was a bad night but every night is ‘bad’ just about.

I’ve reached the end of my rope and told him that if he won’t discuss sleep training then he can take responsibility for all the night wakes.

Im really furious with the pair of them and I know im being unreasonable but I feel as if they are both trying to spite me.

i much prefer gradual withdrawal than CIO.

Takes a bit longer, but they learn to self soothe, and that you're not going to give them the attention they crave, while also feeling reassured that you're there.

Its basically where you start sitting by the cot, ignoring them until they settle and sleep.. takes a bit of laying them down, stroking cheeks/holding hands/whatever until they get the hint the first couple of nights.

Once you're at the point they'll lay down/go to sleep, you start sitting a little further from the cot each time until you're in the doorway, then outside the door.

you don't look at them, you don't make eye contact. you say 'lay down, time to sleep' or something when you initially put them down and tuck them in.

my son is autistic, and hasn't slept through in 15 years.. this was the only way i could get him to learn to self soothe/not scream when he woke up at ungodly hours.

We tried to sleep train our one year old and she just made herself sick after 2-3 minutes of being left, plus head banging etc, she was very distressed.

I think it is developmental/ personality. We parented in the same way. Our first child self settled from about 12 weeks and slept through the night at about a year old. Our daughter was a different kettle of fish! We tried various sleep training methods including Ferber and used Andrea Grace too. Sometimes it would work for a bit but then she’d regress again.

I went away when she was 20 months old to night wean her (BF) but it didn’t help her sleep. However it did mean that my partner could settle her too.

In the end, we went with the flow, and she co slept in the main until she was 4. She didn’t sleep through reliably until 5, and even now at 9 she comes into bed at night if she is under par.

I would definitely agree with having a night or two in a hotel to have a break and think clearly about what will work.

CC may work.
I don’t agree with CIO.

I do feel for you though, sleep deprivation is the pits.
Good luck!

If your husband sleeps like the dead, then put him on a mattress in your son’s room and leave them to it? That way your son isn’t alone.

Another vote for sleeping in the same room on a pullout bed.
We couldn't let our 2nd CIO even if we had wanted to, as he was so loud he woke everyone else up (including DS1) and my husband was doing shifts and I had a full time job!

CIO is fairly horrendous so I'd do a gentler method, but whatever you decide I would just crack on with it and pretend your H isn't even there. You're dealing with the night wakings (huge solidarity by the way I remember it well and shudder at the thought!) so it's your decision how to handle it, you really don't need to "discuss" it with him.

My eldest was a brilliant sleeper but my youngest was the opposite. With solid routine and never EVER taking her out of the cot when she woke, she eventually started sleeping through aged 2 or so but it was utterly hellish so I really feel for you. I too despise cosleeping so it was never an option for me unless they were ill or something.

Sleep should be prioritised here, so do what you need to do and good luck!

Hi OP, it sounds so tough and I really sympathise. My DD didn't sleep well until she was 2 or so, and believe me, I won't ever forget the sleep deprevation! It's torture.

Sleep training doesn't have to involve CIO to be successful. Far from it. I've done a LOT of research online and this is who I would pay for help (not sure if finances allow?) if I have the same issues with my second: snoozysleep.co.uk. She is also on Instagram @snoozy_sleep - she doesn't do CIO but as far as I understand her methods aren't cry-free. She just seems to know her stuff and is a good balance between CIO and the 'they'll sleep eventually' camps!

@Secondnightblue

No - I really want to break the habit of co sleeping.

We basically set up a decent camp in our son’s room so when he woke up, we could settle him back in his room and sleep next to him.

It meant we didn’t get in his bed or vice versa and he got used to his bed.

Now, he loves his room and his bed and I can’t remember the last time we slept in there. Probably when he was really ill at about age 7/8. He’s 12.

DS was a terrible sleeper here too. We tried all the sleep strategies and none of them worked.

Once we were past the breastfeeding stage and I was back at work we alternated nights in DS's room so that at least every night one of us got a decent sleep. At weekends, each of us got a lie in one day each.

Alternatively you can either do the sleep training yourself and tell DH that if he's not going to take an active role, he can fuck off. Or he can do the nights himself and figure out how to sort out the sleeplessness himself while you sleep.

I did CIO. It was the last resort and I’d tried all the other advice. She was 2 years old and hated the cot and woke up every 40 minutes all night. It was torture. I tried pat, shush. I tried gradual withdrawal. I tried Co-sleeping. We had white noise, black out blinds, good bedtime routine…. Honestly I tried every bloody thing. Then she learned how to get out of the cot so we had to move to a toddler bed and then she just got up and screamed all night. So in the end I put her in bed and shut the door. She couldn’t turn the handle. She screamed on one side of the door and I sat and cried on the other. She made it 90 minutes before she fell asleep on the floor. I covered her with a blanket. When she woke up in the night I went in and checked on her and told her to go back to sleep and shut the door again and this time she only screamed for 30 minutes. It took a week and every night she cried for less time and woke less. She’s 10 now and adorable and sleeps like a log and remembers nothing about it. No trauma for her but her sleeping stopped me having another baby. 2 years of the mist awful sleep deprivation was enough, never again

Health visitor here
Here is the summary of the sleep training I received
We have a 2 hour sleep cycle; start awake, drift into light sleep, then deep sleep then light sleep with a possible awakening
We all have sleep triggers, which we usually need in place to sleep
In adults this is usually being warm and in the quiet
If you were asleep in a light sleep period and a brass band played in your front garden you would hear them and wake. If you were in a deep sleep, you would not usually wake
Children and babies have learnt sleep triggers. This maybe falling asleep in carers arms, in my cot alone or a myriad others.
When my brain is semi roused in a light sleep period, I can become aware that my sleep triggers are absent ( no carer, no dummy, not being patted etc). I feel unsafe, fully awake and cry for my carer to make me feel safe
This can be very situation specific so I may sleep at grandparents home very well
When my carer comes I feel safe and the cycle restarts
These triggers can be set if the baby is unwell and you nurse them more or allow them into your bed
This also means that they can be unpicked
Put your baby down alone. Have the same routine
Go back every 1-2 mins for as long as it takes. Sit in the next room. You are telling them they are safe and not abandoned as is their fear
However you are not rewarding and reinforcing behaviour
You would have to do this in the night when they wake as part of the 2 hour cycle
I advise parents to start on a Friday night so the worst nights were Friday and Saturday and you had the following days off
Even better do it when on holiday and not needing to get up for work as you will likely be tired
Some parents object to this method as too harsh and that is fine. It’s a choice

What @Rangoon and @Maray1967 say. Our children have not been traumatised or damaged. Mine are happy 20 something adults with no recollection or lasting damage from being left to learn to settle themselves to sleep. Continuous lack of sleep is torture.
Good luck! 😘 😴

If you use CIO on Mumsnet you are literally the devil in human form. I did it with both of mine and they slept brilliantly once they learnt what was expected of them. They have absolutely no recollection of what happened when they were babies and at 20 and 16 years old are wonderful human beings with no hint of emotional damage! Please do what you need to do to get the sleep you need. You will find your little one becomes a better human in the day time once he is getting the sleep he need at night as well. It's a win win. Good luck!

Yes, as the HV says above - start on a Friday if you don’t work at weekends. That’s what our HV advised. Get yourself set up with drinks and snacks on a tray and share the load. I wouldn’t have left mine alone for long personally - one of us went in every couple of minutes that first night.
We knew he wasn’t distressed - as soon as he saw us he was happy and wanting to play. I’ve not got any advice if your child is genuinely distressed - but someone must have some ideas.

We didn't let them cry for long. Maybe 5-6 minutes. Yes, they learnt that we would come if they cried at night but there was very little interaction. I kept the lights low and fed and changed them with no talking or interacting. They learnt that somebody would always come but they had to put a bit of effort into it and it wasn't much fun. They soon learnt that fun was for daytime. A six week old and a eight week old could grasp that concept so I am pretty sure a 14 month old will have no trouble with understanding the idea.

instagram.com/calmandbrightsleepsupport?utm_medium=copy_link

Check them out, they have a course for only £50 and it’s brilliant. Created by paediatric nurses and they were so kind and understanding when I was losing my mind!