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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

The child’s voice in abuse cases. What’s best for them?

43 replies

Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 08:32

Father and daughter are starting contact after a gap of a few years. Father emotional, mentally abusive to me and physically at the beginning.

He was also emotionally abusive to our daughter. I’ve been told to look at this through the eyes of our daughter as she deserves a relationship with her father. I took it to court and they are happy now that he is safe to start contact.

Is it best for her to have this relationship with her father? I know he will continue where he left off as that’s just who he is. She wants to see her dad as I protected her from him, never bad mouthed him so she isn’t scared at all.

They always say think about what the child wants but my daughter has no idea what kind of person he is and the damage he will do.

OP posts:
Georgeskitchen · 16/01/2022 08:34

How old is your daughter?

Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 08:42

6

OP posts:
Soopermum1 · 16/01/2022 09:51

I'm in a very similar situation, and genuinely don't know what to do for the best. In my situation it's probably best she knows him, but amount of contact and supervision are key. He hasn't changed, it's clear, he is who he is.

JustmeandtheKIDS2 · 16/01/2022 10:08

It's a really tough one. Your kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. My children don't see their father due to his abuse towards me and them and his unwillingness to recognise this. But it comes at a price. My children miss him they think it's their fault and they have some how done something wrong.
If at all possible it's best to have some level of contact, it helps with their identity and self esteem.
Maybe contact that is only for a few hours would be best. Or try to make it so that contact does not involve you at all, try to minimise the stress levels.
You may well find he starts decreasing his level of involvement over time.

Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 10:37

@JustmeandtheKIDS2 I really feel stuck. My mind doesn’t know what to do to find peace. Yes she needs a relationship with her father and not causes problems. Then having a relationship with an abusive father will have its problems. I have to be positive about contact, I’ve done the SPIP programme and Cafcass are on my back. To be honest I’ve always been positive even though it makes me sick to my stomach. I can’t find anything positive in either situation and it’s causing me distress.

OP posts:
PonyPatter44 · 16/01/2022 10:43

You let the relationship develop, biy you monitor your daughters behaviour and reactions very carefully. You have to be really adult and controlled and not put your own spin on things...but If she tells you negative stuff about her dad or it sounds as if he's starting his nonsense up again, you stop the visits and go back to court.

If she seems happy with her dad, then just accept that he is able to have the relationship with his daughter that he wasn't able to have with you.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/01/2022 11:01

Where would he be meeting you daughter?. Would it be at a contact centre?.

She does not need a relationship with an abuser in the shape of her father, he is also one of her references for her own choices when it comes to relationships. Who has told you otherwise?

She is relying on you to protect her from malign influences and she is too young to realise that she could just be further manipulated by him.

This man has not changed a bit and I note he was emotionally abusive to her as well. Have you discussed this issue further with the likes of Women’s Aid and the Rights of Women organisations?. It would be worth your while contacting these people.

JustmeandtheKIDS2 · 16/01/2022 11:04

I know I've been there. Xx
Realistically you need very good firm evidence to stop contact. This is very hard to get, esp with emotional abuse. So unless the emotional abuse will stand up in court , you kind of have no choice. Contact must re start.
But you do have control over how this takes place. You could have it they he picks the child up from school, father than your house . They he drops her back to a family friend. That potentially contact is short to minimise additional stress.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/01/2022 11:05

The likes of CAFCASS as well would not have to directly deal with the harm she meeting him could cause her going forward. You also know him better than CAFCASS do.

JustmeandtheKIDS2 · 16/01/2022 11:05

Sorry lots of typos.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/01/2022 11:11

Did this man go on a SPIP programme as well?. W hat has he done himself to prove to the likes of CAFCASS that a relationship with his daughter now is beneficial to her?.

Remember too that abuse is not a relationship issue nor is it about communication or a perceived lack of. It’s about power and control and he has wanted to exert this over both of you. Such men too hate women, ALL of them.

Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 11:28

He has been on the SPIP course. He has done all that court and Cafcass have asked and they are happy he is safe and a changed person. I however think differently but then I’m scared by him. What he did to me should have him locked away. I will have a health condition for the rest of my life I now have to manage which could possibly in the future make me housebound, not including all the mental scares.

I say this on here but he does not deserve a relationship and the love from my child. It though is not mine to give and it’s hers to give. I support her choice because I’ve reached a brick wall and it’s taken out of my hands now. I feel powerless, I feel I have no voice anymore as it’s all in the past.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/01/2022 11:37

He’s not changed and any person can go on these courses. If he could manipulate you as he did he can certainly manipulate or otherwise fool course organisers into thinking he’s changed

I would be contacting both Women’s Aid and the rights of women organisations in your particular circumstances.

Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 11:37

@PonyPatter44 I’ve tried to tell myself that perhaps it was me and he will have a good relationship with her. But then he has had terrible relationships will all the women in his past. He has beaten one girlfriend, he abused the next and when she left him he slit all up his arms.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/01/2022 11:39

A SPIP course was never designed for those like your own self who have experienced domestic abuse. Goodness only knows why you were sent in such a thing in the first place, I can only assume it was court mandated.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/01/2022 11:41

And no it was not you though he probably told you as well and repeatedly that you drove him into doing that. This is ALL on him, all of this violence against you is all on him. You are not and have never been responsible for his actions against you.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/01/2022 11:43

You know deep down he will continue to behave exactly the same ways as previously. He does this because he can and it works for him.

Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 11:48

Yes @AttilaTheMeerkat the course was court ordered so that we could go on the IFCA programme. It was humiliating.

OP posts:
wildseas · 16/01/2022 11:52

What is the initial plan for contact resuming? Is it possible to have this begin by being supervised? Either in a contact centre or by an adult your daughter would trust?
If it is no longer possible to stop contact then minimizing contact, having it as supervised as possible, and having you not connected to it (so he doesn't use dd as a way to get to you) will hopefully reduce the likelihood of any abuse.
And as a pp said - keep an eye out for changes in your daughter's behaviour and then no contact and straight back to court if there is any abuse.

MysticPeg1 · 16/01/2022 11:53

Is this final court ordered contact or interim contact?, what was the cafcass recommendation, is it supervised?

MysticPeg1 · 16/01/2022 11:55

I went on the SPIP as well after fleeing domestic abuse under a section 47. When I told the programme facilitator the circumstances, she was worried for my safety and struggled to understand why I was there. Total waste of time, the only thing I actually learnt from it was not to project my anxieties onto my daughter and not to put her in a position where she has to be the adult.

Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 11:57

We go back in April and in the meantime it’s starting with one video call and a then a few weeks of 2hrs a week supervised and reported. Then after that they expecting me and him and Cafcass to work out what happens.

Cafcass have said there biggest concern is the years between contact. They are not interested in the past abuse anymore.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 12:48

@MysticPeg1

Is this final court ordered contact or interim contact?, what was the cafcass recommendation, is it supervised?
It’s interim contact, it’s supervised and reported then we go back in April. They want me and him with the involvement of Cafcass to resolve the situation before going back in April. We are on the ICFA programme. It’s designed for people who have been at court for a long time. No solicitors are allowed as they believe it brings animosity. I think they think this is all about conflict between me and him. They are it seems brushing the abuse under the carpet. If I appear hesitant it’s because what we have been through.
OP posts:
Original poster
Whathechildneeds · 16/01/2022 12:52

@wildseas

What is the initial plan for contact resuming? Is it possible to have this begin by being supervised? Either in a contact centre or by an adult your daughter would trust? If it is no longer possible to stop contact then minimizing contact, having it as supervised as possible, and having you not connected to it (so he doesn't use dd as a way to get to you) will hopefully reduce the likelihood of any abuse. And as a pp said - keep an eye out for changes in your daughter's behaviour and then no contact and straight back to court if there is any abuse.
It’s not me I’m particularly concerned about anymore. I have to live with how I feel. It’s his relationships with women that are the problem. His past is filled with abuse towards all women in his life. I can’t see his future being any different. How is he going to behave in other relationships in front of her. What will he teach her about how men treat women. Its scary. Before I left he was filling her head with all sorts of rubbish. His trauma and his past he was inflicting on her.
OP posts:
Soopermum1 · 16/01/2022 12:54

I'm going through exactly the same process, though ex was ordered to go in a 12 week parenting course as well. He was supposed to write letters, but that tailed off. He has continued to abuse of the child he has contact with and pushed the boundaries of the current court order. I've reported this to Cafcass and his solicitor and I also highlighted my concerns to the people running the ICFA programme. I hoped Cafcass would have spoken to him, after all it gives him the chance to rectify the behaviour there and then, but I don't think they did and just said contact had to start. I've done my best to go along with the process but make it clear things are not ok. It's all i can do.