The child’s voice in abuse cases. What’s best for them?

[Whathechildneeds]

Father and daughter are starting contact after a gap of a few years. Father emotional, mentally abusive to me and physically at the beginning.

He was also emotionally abusive to our daughter. I’ve been told to look at this through the eyes of our daughter as she deserves a relationship with her father. I took it to court and they are happy now that he is safe to start contact.

Is it best for her to have this relationship with her father? I know he will continue where he left off as that’s just who he is. She wants to see her dad as I protected her from him, never bad mouthed him so she isn’t scared at all.

They always say think about what the child wants but my daughter has no idea what kind of person he is and the damage he will do.

Yep @Soopermum1 mine also had to attend courses and he was super behaved. Letters and photos have been hit or miss. I feel exactly he same I’m agreeing because I simply have no choice but I’m not doing so willingly. They can not just sweep the past under the carpet, they did not live our life.

I feel the same way I did when being abused. I am being told that things haven’t happened when they did.

Does he know where you live, did you have previous local authority or police involvement?

I think sometimes it's luck of the draw what cafcass officer you have. That person holds so much power.

That programme you were also on, that ICFA one was never designed for victims of domestic abuse either. It talks about communication but abuse is not about that nor is it a relationship problem. It sounds like you’re being gaslighted as well by somebody telling you that things did not happen when you know they did. Your ex is and continues to milk this broken system for all it’s worth.

I would urge you to fight this and have a fired up solicitor because it will be you who will have to pick up the pieces when this invariably goes sideways.

Do you really think these men will keep up the contact when the courts are no longer involved?

@JustmeandtheKIDS2

Do you really think these men will keep up the contact when the courts are no longer involved?

For many of the fuckers - Yes because it's often not about the contact with their child. It's about the control and fear they can still hold over the mother.

Mine will absolutely continue after court. He will need to have the adoration of her. All through court it’s been the same thing going on. This kind of star crossed daughter and father with mummy stopping it from happening. I left him and they haven’t seen each other because of his actions. I kept her safe and never bad mouthed him so she has no fear of him and wants to see him. They kept saying it in court that yes he was abusive but just look how much she loves her dad, we must get them back together. It played right into his hands.

So as long as she continues to adore him and he will do what he can to feed into it he will never give up. She will never know whats hide her with the amount of toys she will be about to receive. Like with me he will give and and give and he will never let you forget as it comes at a price and that is your constant feeding of his ego. She like me will not be allowed to have different opinions, bring him up on a mistake, say you don’t agree etc etc.

I’m sure for a while it will work, what 6 year old doesn’t want toys. But then she is a stubborn little thing and can be very rude and I doubt that will go down well. Before if she was naughty he brought her back and said take your child. When she was sick, I don’t want her when she is sick. I don’t know quite how he will respond when all the excitement has worn off and this star crossed feeling and reality hits that parenting is extremely difficult at times. I’m sure I will be to blame then.

I’m also not sure if him getting contact makes him feel powerful that he has won something and taken it from me. He keeps saying through court he wants us to have an amicable relationship. It’s not going to happen, we will never have a “relationship”. I think he wants in again somehow. Judge abs Cafcass absolutely fallen for it all. But then for many years so did I. He is absolutely brilliant at looking like a victim. They have fallen for his my own father was abusive and that’s why I was but l know I’m wrong now Bull.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I am getting extremely annoyed by the terminology of the Cafcass worker doing the ICFA. He is talking like I’m some stupid women with a grudge. He talks of me being resistant. He asks if we can have a 3 way video call with him me and my ex and is unsure why I say no. Having been refused mediation twice before. Because I was abused for over a decade. Because Cafcass concluded I and then daughter were subjected to emotional harm. It’s not resistance it’s fear, instinct because of the life I lived. I’m finding it hard to bite my tongue.

I had a solicitor but after spending £20,000 I have gone LIP unfortunately. Wouldn’t have mattered anyway as it’s been taken out of my hands by Cafcass and judge.

I was advised by a social worker when I was going through court that a lot of men in these situations just drift away. Yes it is about power and control but they are weak. I never believed my ex would walk away . But that is what he did, the courts went on to make findings against him and not allow direct contact, he continued to say it's because he walked away. I feel for anyone going through the court process esp when there are safeguarding issues.

You need to give her the talk about what kind of behaviour is appropriate and to talk about feelings - ie if something someone says hurts then she needs to tell you or a teacher asap no matter who says it. Encourage her to keep a journal.

I feel you all completely. Domestic abuse was proven but we couldn’t prove what he did to my child. I’ve been told he will get unsupervised contact eventually as these courses are just a tick box. He’s been diagnosed with a personality disorder but this has made no difference even though the report says he still poses a risk. We can’t protect our children because the system doesn’t even protect them.

Thank you for sharing what you are going through. My case is very similar in that i was abused physically and emotionally by my ex and my little boy was exposed to it as well. Having not had any direct contact with his dad for 2yrs the courts have order for both me and my ex to attend SPIP and ICFA. If you don’t mind please could you share your experience of ICFA and what it had meant for contact? I’m so worried for my little boy who is 4yrs old and very sensitive to change and would not cope with any emotional abuse from his dad and I just don’t know what to expect from ICFA

This is all so wrong, for all of us. I don’t want my DC to have much contact with their father either, who they idolise because they don’t know how he works - hugely emotionally abusive and sometimes physically as well. He is also very good at playing the victim/super dad. I am hoping he will get bored of having them…but we really shouldn’t have to rely on that 😡

OP do school know about the abuse, could they or your GP help you, or have their views already been “considered” by CAFCASS?

Hi I'm trying to find any thing on the ICFA as caffcass are demanding my children attend I have objects but there not take no for a answer caffcass has spoken toy children witch have said they would do supervise only but caffcass is not listen to anything that is said any information on ICFA people that have let there children go on it

Thank you

My experience of ICFA is that the contact was not supervised, it was observed. First session was in a contact centre and the other two were in the community (soft play). The ICFA worker was just present whilst my son and ex spent time together. The sessions were for 1.5hrs. After the 3 sessions, we were both asked what we want contact to be going forward and as we could not agree the 1.5hrs of contact per week continued without the ICFA worker but out in the community until we went back to court and cafcass gave their recommendations on next steps. Again ex did not agree with the recommendations so it is going to a final hearing. I think cafcass are not giving enough info on what ICFA involves, I was told it would be supervised contact but in reality that was not the case but once you’ve agreed there is no turning back. Therefore my advise would be to keep pushing for the supervised if that is what you think is right for your kids. I think cafcass are being encouraged to move cases along faster since the covid backlog therefore ICFA seems to be the fastest route as it only involves 3 sessions. Once again there is no care or concern for those that have been abused.

Kids are aware (or become aware). What I’ve learnt is that my child’s relationship with his dad is different from my relationship with his dad although his dads key traits remain the same. It’s best as kids get older to allow them to experience it themselves and make up own minds and be there to support reassure and comfort when / if things don’t go well. I provide tech to my child to keep him safe and so he can easily contact me if he wants out. This is reassuring for us both. My advice is go along with it, let your daughter make her own mind up, facilitate but let her talk to you about it without making comment on him, be child led and support them but be the comfort, reassuring grounding person to support / buffer against the difficult bits as needed. She may reach a point she no longer wants to visit him but if she does that’s her choice not you influencing her.
she will make the choices, become aware as she gets more exposure to him and you are there to reassure and comfort and buffer against the damage. This will foster her resilience and help her not fsll into a relationship like that herself in the future. In my experience a few hours on a weekend of contact us limited influence on their lives. Hope this helps and good luck

This

He’s her father, flaws and all. You can’t change that or hide her and she’d only seek him out later anyway.

All you can do is parent her well and counteract his influence.