Can I get the friendship back after a transgression?

[OnMakingMistakes]

Ok so there’s some context which I am going to describe. I really want some advice, I know bits of this are wrong but as many recent threads have said, life’s not black and white so please be kind.

I’m married. Not a great relationship, there is a lot of work stress and other stress due to extended family complications. We’ve been together 20 years, talked about splitting but both not quite brave enough, I think. So, the usual. Lacking connection. We have friends where we live but mainly me who makes the effort to see them (by myself or as couples), plan holidays away etc.

‘New’ guy started at work. Married. We get on well, have lots in common. Definitely a connection between us on a personal level but we have never socialised beyond work events. I think our friendship grew during lockdown when we’d have long chats on the phone but I’d also have similar chats with female colleagues when everyone was isolated, and other male colleagues too. All ‘above board’ but friendly.

Recent work night out, and we decided to leave the group and kissed. Went home separately. Absolutely not proud of what we did, but it happened. Fast forward to a few days later and we met up to talk through what had happened. Agreed it was a mistake and that we have a connection but that marriages/kids are more important. But, that we mean a lot to each other in terms of friendship.

Fast forward a bit more and now it’s weird. I just want my friend back but don’t know how to do that whilst respecting the boundaries that we agreed to post-kiss. It’s awkward and I don’t want that, I don’t want to wave goodbye to what is an important friendship. I feel a sense of loss at the idea that we won’t be able to be friends, in the same way that I’d feel if one of my other friends moved away or similar. This isn’t about wanting an affair, it’s about reclaiming my friendship. But I don’t want to make him feel uncomfortable, or put myself in a position where he draws a firmer line than I am expecting. On the other hand, if I hang back too much I risk losing the friendship altogether.

I am considering suggesting another coffee so we can talk it though again. I think I just want to be honest and see how he sees friendship working, if at all.

What I’m finding really hard at the moment is being in no man’s land and a bit lost.

Has anyone been able to reclaim a friendship in this situation? I know lots of people will say I’ve no right to expect that, and I don’t.

But I also know that my friends are really important and I’d really like him to be one of them. You’re a long time dead and I don’t want to turn my back on a solid connection if I don’t have to.

[awaits flaming, hopes for some balance]

Oh I see. Ok that is fair. Yes, he knows. I realise the ‘state’ of my marriage is a significant factor and it’s a whole other (related, obvs) story.

In terms of denial, and framing. It’s semantics maybe but I suppose I have been telling myself it’s not, and hasn’t been, an affair (emotional or otherwise). We had never discussed anything unduly personal or intimate or crossed any lines literally until minutes before we kissed.

So maybe I have tried to minimise it in a way and that hasn’t been helpful.

I think in your shoes I would accept that the friendship was over and that there was no going back. Sadly you both crossed a line and I don’t think the friendship was developed enough to return from that.

It is sad that you have lost a friend, but you sound as though you have other friends and are not isolated. I think trying to be friends with this man would be the wrong thing to do.

@OnMakingMistakes

In terms of denial, and framing. It’s semantics maybe but I suppose I have been telling myself it’s not, and hasn’t been, an affair (emotional or otherwise). We had never discussed anything unduly personal or intimate or crossed any lines literally until minutes before we kissed.

So maybe I have tried to minimise it in a way and that hasn’t been helpful.

I think you need to reframe it for yourself and focus less on labels.

Even if you don't feel it meets the threshold of 'emotional affair', you have been (and still continue) putting a disproportionate and inappropriate amount of headspace and energy into your dynamic with this man.

I think you need to just be an adult about it and accept that sometimes actions have consequences that mean it's too late to go back to how things were before.

Thank you, I am lucky to have a good amount of mates and am not isolated.

Although carrying a secret doesn’t help when you usually have a lot of shared experiences. Yes, I know only myself to blame.

@OnMakingMistakes

Interesting that that once the vitriolic voices start, more pile in.

Thank you @MondeoFan @todaysdilemma and @BootySOS @MorrisZappfor pragmatic but direct comments. I needed to hear those.

I really don’t need to be told to think of his ‘poor wife’. Honestly what a phrase, I would hate if the situation where reversed that anyone was pitying me. But we’re all different.

And as for the shouts of ‘bullying’ and ‘coercion’ .

My DH does know as I said upthread somewhere.

Yeah interesting that is how you percieved everyones view, that people are just sheep and can't think for themselves.

Look you sound quite a direct kind of woman, knows what she wants and only wants to hear whar she wants.

The direct statement would be you are predatory woman and yes you do need to remind yourself of his wife.

But you crack on, you will only end up getting your ego bruised as this man wants to forget about it, and you.

Does your husband know you still want to be friends and meet up with the man you kissed? If he's happy with that then crack on. If not then don't you think it's about time you showed him some respect and took a big step away from this.....whatever it is.

You don't need this friendship. You want it because there's something very unfulfilled inside you. What you need is not Mumsnet but a solid therapist to talk it all through with. The friendship is dead. There is no going back.

You crossed a line and it can’t “un happen”
No matter how much you both might want to be friends it will always be there and no matter what either of you say you both know what you did.
You can be friends of a sort but not like before, you need boundaries

I say this nicely.

It's not an important friendship, it's a work friendship. You say you have similar friendships with other colleagues to minimise the 'dangerous' feelings you are having towards this guy, but in reality if you felt the friendship waning with any of your other colleagues you would not feel this same sense of loss.

That is because as another person said your are feeling an infatuation and not a friendship.

I also agree with a PP that you court disaster if you arrange to spend time with him alone, meeting up for that coffee and a chat about your feelings is just looking for ways to fall into an 'accidental' affair.

I would suggest that you are in serious danger of embarking on an emotional affair which can be just as damaging as a physical affair. Emotional affairs can sometimes lead to physical affairs too.

My advice would be to avoid this man as much as possible. Keep work communications absolutely strictly professional and short. You don't have to be rude and you don't have to explain but seriously pull back! Don't share jokes and personal tidbits, keep it work related.

Separately take some time to look inside yourself and examine where you are at the moment, what is going on with your marriage etc. It sounds like you aren't the type to cheat so what is it that's missing in your life/marriage that lead you to get drawn in by someone showing you attention/attraction?

I also agree with a PP who says this guy is not your friend. It may be that he is similar to you and things went too far before he had realised the danger he was in but experience shows that it's a high possibility that he is basically a predatory ego boost searcher. Maybe a serial cheat? Who knows, but it's probably in yours & your marriages best interest that you frame him in your head as someone who doesn't have your best interests at heart and is best avoided.

Don't tell your husband about the kiss, it will do him no good to know if this is a one of mistake never to be repeated. If you feel guilt, bear it as your own to carry in some way as punishment if you like but don't tell him to ease your guilt.

If you decide you are unhappy in the marriage and want to break up or a therapist suggests it could be a good way forward to tell him in joint therapy if you decide to work on your marriage, then do tell him.

Mainly stay away from the other guy though.

I've just read your last few posts and see your husband knows and your marriage is unhappy... well disregard my bits about telling your husband and that tells me what I had already guessed.

The rest of my post still stands though. To add leave your husband if you are unhappy and he is emotionally unavailable. It is actually that simple, from that point on it's just logistics.

Emotional affairs don't just have to be declarations of undying love or sharing of over personal info FYI, they are basically a relationship that has crossed a boundary, as yours has, from casual relationship to one of a closely bonded and romantic nature. From the point you felt connected to this guy in the way you do (which is different to how you feel about your other work friends), and you continued to seek his company it became bordering on emotional affair territory IMO.

If your husband knows why is it secret from your friends?

Do you worry they will judge you harshly and you will lose their friendships or are you worried they will echo a lot of the posters here and tell you the reality of the situation?

Again I don't mean to be rude, I have been told I am too blunt but I really don't know how else to put it sorry!

I think you may still be fooling yourself quite a lot about this, there is a reason for that and I think you need to spend some time thinking that through for yourself and I think you need to open your eyes to what this really is.

It's not really semantics and you 'may be minimising it' should really be 'I have definitely minimised it but I need to stop doing that because it's not helpful to me'

Good luck OP, I'm sorry I've posted 3 times in a row!

Mumsnet definitely the wrong place to say you kissed another man! Sorry you getting this response.
I'll rebalance and say I totally get that it's the friendship you are upset about. I would send him a text and say you miss the old easy friendship. He might well be worrying and reading all sorts into the kiss aswell? I'd be honest. You miss his friendship, hope the kiss hasn't fucked everything up and can we agree to laugh it off as a stupid, drunk mistake?'

Good luck

I'm sorry if you felt I was vitriolic but I was actually speaking from quite unhappy personal experience that I genuinely hope you can avoid for yourself, and I picked up a similar vibe from other concerned posters who have possibly also been there.

It's not nice and there are no easy answers but I stand by my original thoughts that you can avoid further heartache and fallout down the line by walking away from this friendship now.

@Pileonsally

Mumsnet definitely the wrong place to say you kissed another man! Sorry you getting this response. I'll rebalance and say I totally get that it's the friendship you are upset about. I would send him a text and say you miss the old easy friendship. He might well be worrying and reading all sorts into the kiss aswell? I'd be honest. You miss his friendship, hope the kiss hasn't fucked everything up and can we agree to laugh it off as a stupid, drunk mistake?'

Good luck

Ah yes great plan, then the wife can 'accidentally' see the message and set the grenade off in their marriage properly? Fab!

OP asked for peoples opinions on her situation.
You would follow your advice.
I would follow my advice.

This board is for people to gather thoughts from others. If I ask everyone , 'what would you do in this situation' then people would give different answers. That's all I'm doing.

If the tables were reversed and it was your husband’s transgression, what would you want him to do? Would you be comfortable with the friendship continuing (whether or not any further intention was there), or would you want him to put some distance between himself and the friend?

Some things happen to serve the purpose of introspection. I think this is one of those things. A pivotal moment.

You shouldn’t have kissed him, nor her you, but I think you’ve figured that much out for yourself.

It’s not salvageable as a friendship. You need to make whatever sense you can of it and then address the real reasons you were so emotionally invested.

Speaking from experience, a long standing friend of mine told me via text that he has always been attracted to me and often thought about meeting me in a hotel for sex. Apparently he’d thought about it for ten years and knew I felt the same. I was horrified. Walked around in a daze for weeks because I was just shell shocked. Truly never saw it coming and felt violated. I also couldn’t look my husband in the eye because I felt like I’d betrayed him. That was 2 years ago and I’ve never answered a call or text since. One was apologising & explaining he’d had a drink but there’s no going back from that. It all left a foul taste in my mouth & to remain friends would be disloyal to both spouses.
I think this is why others are suggesting you may want the affair. If it really felt that wrong to you you likely wouldn’t want to be around him any more. Of course only you truly knows how you feel but perhaps give some thought to if you do want more. If no one were to ever find out and you could guarantee that, would you?

In any case I’m glad for you that you aren’t in the midst of an affair. You sound like that’s beneath you.

That’s should read
*nor him you

All I would say is out the boot on the other foot. If you found out the situation was replicated in it entirety but for your husband and his work colleague how would you feel?
Have you told your husband about any of it? If not, why not?

@Pileonsally

OP asked for peoples opinions on her situation. You would follow your advice. I would follow my advice.

This board is for people to gather thoughts from others. If I ask everyone , 'what would you do in this situation' then people would give different answers. That's all I'm doing.

Can you not see that what you have advised is a) a reiteration of what they have already discussed and therefore moot b) not something that by stating it 'out loud' can actually make anything better just by saying the words (which have been said already) c) in danger of being found by the wife, blowing this completely up in a big dramatic way and d) not very good advice given it's clear the OP has romantic feelings for the 'friend' and it's obviously not just a friendship?

And you didn't just come in with your opinion, you were goading other posters by making us out to be puritanical pearl clutchers who collectively and soundly damned the OP for the cardinal sin of kissing another man! which isn't actually what has happened

You might believe all this bullshit you're spouting, but none of us do. This man is not your friend, has never been your friend, and never will be. Stop lying to yourself and give your head a wobble. You're just looking for approval for making a really poor decision. If you're unhappy in your marriage, end it.

Oh and e) running roughshod over his boundary to leave it and get a bit of space - partly spoken and partly from context of his behaviour since,

You can’t save this friendship and stay committed to your husband. Your friend can’t stay friends with you and stay committed to his wife. Things are awkward now because you both know that if you continue the friendship and your spouses ever find out about the indiscretion, there will be no defense. If it truly was a lapse on judgment that you regret and never want to replicate, then you will cease contact and recommit yourselves to your respective marriages.

I don't think people are piling on because the OP kissed another man - it's because she's not being honest with herself, and is putting a lot of time and headspace into wondering how she can pick up her "friendship", despite the obvious risks that it could bring.

OP, in the kindest possible way, step back and try to be honest with yourself. From reading your posts, this certainly sounds a lot more emotional than I'd expect from someone who's essentially just a good colleague from work. The angst at losing this friendship sounds excessive and disproportionate.

He's made it clear that he won't leave his wife but here's a question....how would you feel if he suddenly declared that he wanted to be with you? How about if he split up with his wife and was suddenly available? I think if you're honest with yourself you'd feel excited. And that's why there's no healthy basis for this friendship.

Platonic friendships only work if there's no attraction. That's not the case here - pursuing it would leave the risk of you falling into a full blow emotional affair, and then possibly a physical one. You may miss it - but that's because it was providing you with the attention that is missing from your marriage. It's not a healthy dynamic, nor a basis of a friendship.

Even in the best relationships it's possible to meet someone else that you are attracted to, or have a connection with. But the healthy and most helpful reaction is to make sure you minimise your interactions with that purpose and don't feed the emotions - they'll soon pass. Put the effort into your marriage and figure out if it can be revived.

If you keep insisting to yourself that this is a perfectly normal friendship just like any other, this is going to go tits up. Even if you don't want to say it out loud on this board that's fair enough - but please do re-evaluate whether you think there could be any grains of truth in what all of us have said.