Is/was your partner playing the victim, and did you manage to ‘fix’ this?

[Mumof3confused]

What the title says basically. I’m realising through therapy that my partner is very much playing the victim and I’m partly responsible for ‘rescuing’ him over the years, mainly to make my life easier. I am aware of this and try to do my best to let him get on with things (and fail miserably which does mean wasting time/money etc and does infuriate me).

He does not recognise that he has victimised himself or that this is manipulative. We are in couples counselling and I feel as though he has managed to charm our counsellor to think I’m the one who always nit picks at him but I genuinely don’t believe this to be true.

He find lots of things hard. Finances, DIY, driving, organising, planning you name it, it’s harder for him than it is for other people. I am so smart/clever/quick that he could never do it as well as me if he tried, so he doesn’t try.

When I try to bring this up or question things he will say it didn’t happen, he will shift the focus to my reaction, fail to remember…if all that fails he starts with the:

‘I love you so much I am heartbroken and I cry all the time’
‘I thought you loved me’
‘I don’t know how I’d cope without you’
‘You are ignoring all of the positives, you are not trying enough’

This results in me feeling terribly guilty and worried for him if I left, however I cannot respect or find any desire for him anymore.

I’m just wondering how long to keep going with the therapy, if it is any use. Anyone managed to get out of this dynamic?

In my experience of partners who behave like this, and I sadly have plenty of experience, this is ingrained behaviour and you can’t shift it. They do it because it has always benefited them to do it, and even if left to their own devices they’ll still do the absolute minimum until they find somebody else to do it for them.

The problem with having a partner like this is that you invariably end up taking things on yourself, because it’s all well and good saying let it all go to hell, but then you have to put up with it all going to hell.

It’s up to you how hard you choose to try to change him and how much you choose to put up with, but sadly I don’t think you’ll manage to change the way he behaves. He might try for a while, but they always revert back to type sooner or later and you’ll have just wasted your own time trying.

This is my worry, we’ve been married 10 years and I’ve only just realised these are his tactics. I just don’t see how it could ever get to a point where he does not do this. He believes the problem is his low self esteem and somehow managed to blame me for this also.

We are in couples counselling and I feel as though he has managed to charm our counsellor to think I’m the one who always nit picks at him but I genuinely don’t believe this to be true.
Counselling is 'working' for him - he gets to stall your relationship worries by pretending he is addressing them.
He gets a ready audience from a counsellor who he is manipulating - just as he manipulates you.
Counselling is NOT working for you - for the exact reasons above!

He does not recognise that he has victimised himself or that this is manipulative.
Your counsellor should have, though.
They should also be aware that couples counselling is NOT recommended by professionals, when one of the partners is abusive, which I think your man is, with all his projection, denial & DARVOing of you.

I think you should cancel the counselling & save your money, because you are just paying for a road to nowhere.
You no longer respect or desire him, so why stay?
Is it because you dread the inevitable bleating & guilt-tripping that will ensure?

What is your living situation? - how simple would it be to separate?

@ChargingBuck you are right, he pretends but actually doesn’t even pull his socks up about the things I’ve specifically brought up. And when I point out that’s he’s repeated the same thing again, he blames me for ‘always complaining’. I can never win.

I’m confused about this counsellor because she’s highly experienced and does have supervision so surely should be tuned into this. I’ve started seeing my own counsellor separately as I’m getting so confused and she has pointed out how controlling and manipulative he is!

I’m carrying on with it because I hoped there was some way to fix it, we have children and a house, investments…it’s a bit of a mess.

Of course I feel terribly guilty about the thought of leaving him because he has forever told me (jokingly) that he doesn’t know what he’s do without me!

There is no way for YOU to fix this, Confused.
The only person who can fix him, is him.

You already know that he will not do so.
He would rather blame you, manipulate the counsellor, & guilt-trip you about how you must not leave him.

Yep you are right. He’s quite convincing in his efforts during the session and makes all the right noises but then his actions don’t match. I just don’t understand why he still plays along, he is about to lose his marriage. Is this not enough of a wake up call?

I’m struck by

“ I am so smart/clever/quick that he could never do it as well as me if he tried”

And

“ actually doesn’t even pull his socks up about the things I’ve specifically brought up”

It could look like you really don’t like him, look down on him, expect him to pull his socks up and meet your standards. Would that be unfair to think from what you’ve written?

Yuck, I wouldn't be attracted to him anymore.

What kind of things are you bringing up with him? What’s he doing wrong?

Oh God I recognise so much of what you’ve written from years ago.
I had :
it’s not my fault I drink it’s because ex left me and took my children away.
It’s not my fault my business is going broke ( nothing to do with the
£££s I spend on booze of course or the days I take off “sick”)
Call a plumber, garage, decorator, gardener I can’t do that.
Don’t ever leave me ( who’ll pay the bills? Who’ll listening to me whine?)
I might as well kill myself now.
He was the eternal victim. He even said poor me at times.
The list could go on and on… and on.

He either manipulated a counsellor or lied about what was said.
It didn’t get any better. The thing that helped was me moving out, lock stock and barrel. Never saw the loser again.

Ask yourself what you want the outcome to be and if there is less than a 50% chance of that happening you know there’s no point in staying with him.

@BillMasen HE said that I’m so smart etc that he could never do things as well as me! I don’t agree with this type of statement, I am quite capable of googling and following YouTube video instructions though.

So when I say I expect him to pull his socks up:

• something breaks and I would like him to attempt to fix it. He doesn’t. He leaves it for me to sort. I do 100% of anything to do with repairs to the house or car
• work around me when he knows I am going through an extremely busy time at work. Instead he leaves me to look after self isolating child while he spends 2.5 hours playing sport and then hides away doing paperwork once he gets home instead of taking over (he is off work at this point, I am not but WFH)
• back me up when I have to have discussion with child who has done something wrong. Instead he glazes over, walks off, etc

Each thing is minor but when you put them all together it’s just too much.

What ChargingBuck wrote here. Do take heed.

If you can be so easily manipulated by such a man (and these men are really master manipulators), he will indeed make short work of a counsellor. He is playing her like a fiddle too. These joint counselling sessions need to cease; joint counselling is never advised where there is abuse of any type within a relationship.

Do not continue to do your bit here to be showing your children such a damaging example of a relationship and marriage. Do not stay in such a marriage for the "sake of the children" either and do not place such a heavy burden of guilt upon them.

Work on your own self and rebuild your life and those of your children without him in it day to day. You are likely to be codependent and that is itself an emotional state which is unhealthy.

@Suzanne999 this sounds awful. My husband doesn’t drink but is also completely unable to deal with any tradesmen. Apparently it triggers him because of his mother’s partner growing up, he is intimidated by them.

There are SO many things he find hard. Even driving, he can only manage a very short local drive.

If you can confidently say that you don't respect him any more then that's all you need to know. A marriage is not a millstone you need to wear around your neck forever, despite what we might have been conditioned to think.
It sounds like you've fallen into patterns and roles that aren't working for either of you and if you've made all reasonable effort to make change, and you still don't want to move forward then that's fair enough.

Counsellors aren't magic beings, they're fallible humans that can totally be manipulated by people, they're not the last word, you are.

If somebody makes you feel like you're kicking a puppy when you expect them to take responsibility for anything, just bin them.

They've deliberately chosen this method of coercion because it's harder to resist.

Oh this is bringing some memories back OP!

The lying and evading to get out of doing stuff.
The stuff he "found difficult" or "didn't do" - talking to teachers/dealing with school/any kind of admin/even carrying heavy bags or boxes/baby carrier, couldn't do it because he had some kind of special reason why it was something he couldn't cope with.

The "not knowing how" to do stuff. "Can you sort out getting that patch of damp fixed, I am already doing XYZKJY HTF"
"But I can't... I don't know how to do that."
(I would say - no I don't know how to either. That's why when something needs fixing, I FIND OUT HOW)

The self-pity and emotional blackmail if I got annoyed with him, even though a saint would get annoyed with some of the above.

Aaaaarrrggghh!

I ended it. I should have ended it much sooner but I eventually realised he wouldn't change and I could stop trying to get through to him!

@NeverDropYourMooncup he does do the puppy eyes quite well I must admit. The thing is, he does do SOME things. But I had to be pushed right to the edge before he’d start doing it (like buying food and cooking). And now he uses those few things to say ‘well look at all the things I do and you’re still not happy’. It’s very hard even to explain. The things he does do, he does badly but I am very careful not to show that I think that. Such as using EVERY pot, pan and utensil to cook a simple meal. He used to then tell me it was my turn to clean up because he cooked. I expect him to clean up after himself now. He’ll fold washing but does it so badly everyone walks round in terribly crumpled clothes, embarrassingly so. But I say nothing and just let the kids walk around like that (they don’t care thankfully). He has zero common sense whatsoever but is highly academic. To any outsider he’s kind, caring and a hands-on husband. It’s very confusing.

I recognise so much of this. In particular, the fact that you are being portrayed as the "baddy" because you are "impatient", "controlling", "unkind", "unsympathetic", "mean" etc.

While a therapist should be able to recognise this, I've read enough on here to know that couples therapy with individuals of this sort is not helpful.

The problem, I suspect, is that you put up with it for a long time? Perhaps you did feel sorry for him - sounds like he may have some issues from childhood perhaps that were used as excuses and for a long time you accepted that. But now, perhaps as life gets busier or you start to realise that NOTHING Is changing, you're losing patience. Of course, for him, this is triggering.

I think pick the one or two things that are absolutely 100% not unreasonable. Don't get bogged down in the ridiculousness of things that he might have an excuse that might be considered okay by someone. Pick the things that are just a no. From your posts, for example, the one where you are working AND doing the childcare, while he's out having fun. We all know that if one partner is working, and the other one isn't, then it's up to the non-working parent to take on the childcare. Hold that in your head. Remember it. Use it to motivate yourself to remember all the other ones. Don't let him gaslight you - "I only didn't do it it because if I did it differently to how you'd have done it, you'd have shouted".

And consider leaving him. Counselling clearly not working. Hell, tell him that as him and the counsellor seem to think you're the problem, it's clearly best that he gets away from you....

@MrsMadderRose that’s exactly it. I have no frigging idea either about half the stuff I somehow manage to do, it’s just life though isn’t it. He told me recently that I seem to have the monopoly on being busy. This was during the busiest time of year for me professionally and he was on holiday. I expected him to take a load off, he didn’t, then made me out to be the bad guy for complaining and pointed out all of the things he did do at some other point in time. It’s like speaking to a wall.

I also have a victim. Not quite as you describe, in that he cannot stand incompetence in certain specific areas (e.g. he's great at DIY and driving and can't bear it when people aren't) but in many other areas, he's the same. "It's very difficult for me" is his catchphrase when it comes to a wide range of normal day to day things.

He also leads me to believe he would not cope without me. The worst implication of this is that he would try to hurt himself if we weren't together.

Oh yes - and I totally recognise the you're always having a go at me/
you're controlling/ critical/ unsympathetic etc.

@scaredsadandstuck how is ‘it’s very difficult for me’ even an acceptable excuse for anyone over the age of 18. I feel like such a mug.

I even get the teenagerish eye rolls now if I dare complain.

@Mumof3confused - I know! Infuriating!! Although I prefer the eye roll to the sad puppy face and sorry-for-myself sighing, which I also get a lot of. At least the eye roll has a bit of fight to it!

Good luck lovely. I've just told my H we need to go to counseling but am now wondering if that's a good idea.

My ex husband was a constant victim. Couldn't cope with anything. I had to do it all.

Once I stopped having constant sympathy and doing everything he had an affair and left me for her because she was a constant source of sympathy for him

@scaredsadandstuck - do you feel you might only be considering counselling because you hope that he will listen to the counsellor, like he fails to listen to you?

He won't.
Like OP's partner, he will simply present his own narrative & manipulate the counsellor to take his 'side'. In exactly the same way he manipulates you into accepting his strategic incompetence.

He won't change for your sake, despite the thousand times you've asked.
Why would he change for another person?