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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"Men to need to feel they are men - women just know they are women"

30 replies

3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 12:41

This is what my mum has just said to me on the phone.

Last night, I had what can only be described as a conversation where my now for sure EXDP was BRUTAL.

He said things to me in ways that didn't need to be said. He was brusk, curt, sharp, blunt, just awful, and his underlying message is 'it's too hard to try, so I'm ending it'. The truth is that he can't get over that I hurt him once, about 18 months ago, he can't go to therapy because he says he can't talk to a stranger about it, so this includes couples therapy. He says what I did just shows I am on a 'different wavelength'. I think it's all about his inability to be vulnerable. We were 11 years deep in our relationship when this thing happened. 11 years and 3 children. The thing? He overheard me complain about something he did to me on the phone to my mum. I was 8 months pregnant, at the beginning of lockdown and I felt his behaviour change. I wasn't sure what it was, so I asked him (from a position of fear) 'do you think you won't love this baby?' because I'd noticed he wasn't as engaged with this pregnancy as he was with the other two. He responded 'I don't love the baby'. I sat there, crushed, crushed isn't the word. I was hurt, upset, scared, worried, just lost in these thoughts and emotions. So I waited until I was out of the way and I called my mum and begged her to go and stay with her. She said no. Fair enough, she was actually shielding in April 2020, and I had two snotty nosed kids already. I begged though, she said 'luv, you just feel hurt right now, he is your partner, the father of your children, you need him'. My response? 'MUM, I don't need him, I don't need his money or his help with the kids, I'll be fine at yours, just let me stay'. He overheard this, and this, he says, kicked off the descent of his feelings and now he doesn't love me, want me, care for me, he feels nothing for me at all. It's over, the kids will be fine. He says when he heard me say that he felt sick his knees went weak, and he hasn't been able to get over it since. Je has spoken to people, men, who have said it's minor, but to him it means everything and it's over. Sorry, but he's changed and no longer loves me.

I spoke to my mum about the conversation we had this morning, which is 18 months after the 'I don't care' phonemail was overheard, and about 6 months since he actually told me our relationship was in trouble (he sat on this for a year, and made the first year of my baby's life bereft of love and comfort at home). I just wanted to let her know that it's over, I want to keep her updated, as I'm abroad with him and she was really worried about that, to let her know what is going on, and I wanted her to say something loving and supportive. She did.

She also said she's seen many men leave families over injury to their egos. Then she said " you know, no one makes me feel like a woman. I don't need to feel like a woman. I am a woman. every day, I know it, I just am. But men? Men need to feel they are men, and if you do anything which results in them not feeling that way, many will punish you, and many will eventually leave'.

I wonder what others think about that. I heard it and honestly thought my mum had a point.

And also writing about this has been pretty carthatic. 2022. It's ok. new beginning.

OP posts:
Nathlash · 02/01/2022 12:47

No, I don’t think your mother is right. I think you’re married to someone unpleasant. I also think you overreacted to him saying he didn’t love your unborn child — of course he didn’t. It was still inside you! I can honestly say I gave my own unborn child only the occasional thought until I was on maternity leave. It has in no way impacted on my feelings for him after he was actually born. It seems to me completely mad to phone your mother and beg to go and stay with her, unless the behavioural change you refer to was making you feel unsafe in your own home…

3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 12:51

It was that he was very engaged in the other pregnancies. This one, no. And he turned quite grumpy, short-tempered with me, acting exasperated. It felt unpredictable. He says he said 'I don't love this baby'. I actually remember asking him 'do you think you won't love this baby' and him saying 'yeah, I think maybe I` won't'.

I gave his recollection in the post above bevies he seems sure about it and I am not 100% sure about my recollection, but I actually think it was my recollection.

But, this is not black mirror, there is no record, so who knows.

But I did think what my mum said was interesting.

OP posts:
3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 12:53

and @Nathlash I think we might be very different people. I thought about my children a lot while pregnant with them. We both talked about loving my first two babies before they were born. They kicked, moved, interacted with us. I certainly felt emotion for mine way before they were born. But thanks for your post.

OP posts:
OrangeShark27 · 02/01/2022 12:57

Op, he's just a knob. Sometimes we just have to accept some people are selfish arseholes and he is one of them. This has nothing to do with you, nothing you have done or made him feel. No matter what you did he would have found a way to punish you for something or other. It's not innate male behaviour that he can't help, he has chosen to behave like this.

He said he didn't love his unborn child, this is clearly not new behaviour caused by your actions. No kind, genuine person says that so casually, even if they have worries or concerns that they may feel this way.

smugsparkle · 02/01/2022 12:59

he's a twat

how dare he tell you he doesn't love the baby, even if he felt it, why state it, when you are 8 months pregnant and feeling vulnerable, but then he holds it against you that you told your mum and wanted to leave him.
i would have felt exactly the same as you.

eagerlywaitingfor · 02/01/2022 13:00

What your mum means is that she thinks men have male pride, and we mustn't do anything to dent their fragile egos, or they will go off and find some other simpering woman to massage it for them.

3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 13:03

Thanks all. And yes, my mum doesn't think very highly of many men. Perhaps I'll get there too, in my 60s! I'm kinda on the way....

OP posts:
ABitOfAShitShow · 02/01/2022 13:04

Agree that he’s a dick but that aside, in a general sense, I think she has a point - and expected not to when I clicked. That said, it’s not excuse and the issue is his not yours!

Glad you’re feeling good and ready to take on the new year. Smile

3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 13:07

My kids are so cute too. We were a wonderful family until this. His major loss. Hopefully minor for my kids, they're young. A gain for me. I don't need it.

OP posts:
SuspiciousHumanoid · 02/01/2022 13:09

I think men spend enough time with their hands’ on their cocks’ to be constantly reminded that they are men.

Your mother is half right. Some, a lot, of men think their maleness means they are in charge and that their wants and feelings should be given priority.

This of course is not a characteristic of being male, it’s a symptom of our sexist society.

I’d also say that feeling as if one should constantly pander to mens’ need to feel superior is a constant reminder of being a woman.

merryhouse · 02/01/2022 13:37

Certainly I think the generally-accepted narrative is that men need to feel needed (think of all the angst over them not Being The Breadwinners any more).

Thus a man who is sulking over not being his partner's be-all and end-all will easily find socially-acceptable ways of framing this, whereas a woman in the same situation would be looked on as needy, possessive, a bit childish - and would know that so would work hard to overcome her feelings.

ravenmum · 02/01/2022 13:39

He heard you saying you wanted to leave him, would be fine without him and could raise the children on your own. Of course he was hurt. Anyone would find that hurtful, male or female.

Luredbyapomegranate · 02/01/2022 13:54

You did appear to have a very strong reaction to his statement that he didn’t love the baby - it was a foetus, inside you. Lots of people couldn’t bond at that stage, whether they did before or not. Similarly while it’s no wonder he was hurt at hearing you say you didn’t need him, walking out on a long relationship over it is crazy.

The pair of you sound emotionally immature and over-dramatic - this isn’t a soap opera OP, you need to realise raising kids without both partners in one house is going to be hard, and he needs to realise the damage he is causing by walking out.

I’d suggest you both go see a marriage counsellor and see if you can salvage it, if you can’t you can’t, but it would anyway we good for you to jointly see someone to close your current relational amicably and build a co-parenting relationship.

Just ignore your mother’s comment - it’s a generalisation and it’s not important to your current situation.

MeSanniesareBrannies · 02/01/2022 14:03

You’ve posted about this before, I believe? And everyone told you he was a pillock?

3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 14:10

Wasn't being emotionally immature. I went to a separate room to ask my mum if I could come stay for a while, a few days at most. I wouldn't leave over that comment. But I did need some space. He's aware of that and didn't think I was leaving.

I did post previously, but was still working at it then. I talked about what happened in the post for context mostly, but really it was to see what people thought about my mum's comments. About women just feeling more steadfast in who they are and what they are about. It just seems some men are so fragile. Like glass. I can't raise my son that way...

OP posts:
Nathlash · 02/01/2022 14:13

Shouldn’t you be concentrating on either leaving or attempting to work on your own individual marriage to this individual man, rather than wondering about gendered socialisation in general?

Tittyfilarious81 · 02/01/2022 14:28

I'm going to put my hard hat on for this but I think what you said to your mum would have been very hurtful for him to hear if you'd heard him say the same about you I think you'd be devastated too . What your mum means is that men do generally like to feel needed and have that role of the man of the house when you said you didn't need him that would have impacted how he sees himself in the family unit .

ravenmum · 02/01/2022 14:41

It just seems some men are so fragile. Like glass.
So it's his fault that he was upset when he heard you saying you didn't need him or his money and wanted to go to your mum's? His fault for being too sensitive?

TimeToDecideX · 02/01/2022 14:48

My guess would be that he had already decided the marriage was over but would look like a arsehole leaving a pregnant women or 3 children. He just waited for you to put a foot out of line (whether that be a large or small offence) and so he can blame you, now he doesn't get to look bad in front of everyone because it's all your fault. The fact he said he didn't love your baby shows to me that he was already detached and just biding his time.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 02/01/2022 14:48

Your mother is a female misogynist. He is blaming you for his appalling behaviour. Don't let both of them gaslight you. They are trying . Flowers

3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 15:28

@Nathlash

Shouldn’t you be concentrating on either leaving or attempting to work on your own individual marriage to this individual man, rather than wondering about gendered socialisation in general?
I've done both, but thanks.

Your messages are highly critical. Again, we aren't alike.

OP posts:
3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 15:29

@ravenmum

It just seems some men are so fragile. Like glass. So it's his fault that he was upset when he heard you saying you didn't need him or his money and wanted to go to your mum's? His fault for being too sensitive?
No, not at all.

I think being upset sometimes is par for the course in relationships. It's then what we do.

When we are upset at something someone has done that was unintentional, I think we might show some mercy or forgiveness. We'd been together 12 years, I had done that many times.

Thanks for your message

OP posts:
3lilbirds · 02/01/2022 15:31

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants

Your mother is a female misogynist. He is blaming you for his appalling behaviour. Don't let both of them gaslight you. They are trying . Flowers
Oh thanks - no, mum didn't mean it like that. She wasn't blaming me at all. My mum is very pro-me. She's actually typically balanced, just like that first response 'oh don't be silly, and go back to your family'.

Thanks!

OP posts:
Nathlash · 02/01/2022 15:35

No, we aren’t alike, but I’m not criticising you. I think you’re married to someone bristling with unresolved issues you should probably get the hell away from asap, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with your original declaration to your mother a year and a half ago — of course you didn’t and don’t need him, and could manage alone. I could absolutely, too — the difference is that my DH knows this and doesn’t resent it. And regardless of whether your mother is right about male fragility, I don’t think it’s women’s job to bolster that neediness.

It sounds to me as if your marriage would have ended 18 months ago if your mother had been able to let you stay.

Sn0tnose · 02/01/2022 15:59

I think that there might be more to his behaviour than meets the eye. What triggered the whole thing was you noticing that his behaviour towards you had changed, which came before him saying he didn’t love the baby and before him overhearing the conversation with your mum. It seems very convenient that you’ve now ‘killed his love for you’ with your hurtful comments and given him the excuse he needs to not love you anymore.

I would prepare yourself for the possibility that he will very soon be moving out and will then suddenly ‘meet’ a new woman. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I am.

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