Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is it ever ok for....

40 replies

LifePartyRing · 30/12/2021 23:10

... a father to hit his children in any way? A slap around the head, a bigger slap when he's really angry. Never leaving bruises except once a slap on face left a big mark on face before school (I'm told)

Parenting using fear, using fear to get compliance ?

Shouting and being domineering to get his way?

Justifying his actions by saying his father dealt out much worse to him as a boy eg knocking him to the ground?

I know the answers, I am not stupid at all. It's a complex situation and it's hard to see the wood for the trees.

I'm divorced from him and get reports of the above from kids. Some of it I see (only the physical abuse once recently and I went bat shit at him but he is still doing it). Eldest is very enmeshed in this. Strongly attached. Tells me these things happen then screams about how I might (I will tbh) do something to stop him seeing her and she'd forever hate me (that won't stop me). Tells me he's awful but that she wants to be with him and she hates being with me?.

Very fragile mental health for one of the children and removing contact will be hugely impactful before it becomes helpful. I know he needs reporting- the fall out will be enormous however in many ways.

OP posts:
KiloWhat · 30/12/2021 23:12

This is absolutely horrendous. Please protect the child. Even if they don't thank you for it now they will realise when older.

CoedenNadolig · 30/12/2021 23:15

This is wrong, this is a child safeguarding issue. Bruising a child's face by hitting them so hard is not "discipline" it's assault.

Report him to social services or tell the children's school that you need help with this. Ask the school have they noticed bruising on the children and open the conversation up that way.

This can not continue, and sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind (re the eldest child). If she grows up thinking being hit as a punishment is ok, her boundaries are blurred it could lead to her entering DV relationship and not realising.

PurpleSproutingSomething · 30/12/2021 23:22

You need to report this to SS and tell school if you wish.

Yes the fallout may be huge, but your child needs to know they are believed and have you on side.

Original poster
LifePartyRing · 30/12/2021 23:25

Thank you. It's complexity also lies in fact that he is involved with school in a trusted position. I don't think they will believe it. This is now very outing.

OP posts:
KiloWhat · 30/12/2021 23:27

Tell them anyway. You need to try your best, don't worry about if they believe you, once you've told them they will have to take it seriously.

Original poster
LifePartyRing · 30/12/2021 23:30

Does anyone here have experience of this kind of reporting? What happens? Assume perpetrators don't get arrested ?

Is it better to go via school or via childrens services. I've got family services involved already due to the MH issues going on with one child. It would be easy to raise there but I'd almost rather get to the school first, myself.

OP posts:
NewLifeNow · 30/12/2021 23:33

OP, I'm in such a similar position other than the facial bruise. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I am also agonising over whether it's better to have Access to a parent who is half okay and half not okay, than no access at all. They would say they'd rather have him and out up with him, yet at the same time they report not feeling safe if I'm not there to protect them. It's heartbreaking.

Lacedwithgrace · 30/12/2021 23:34

Go to child services. Don't start a shitstorm in the school with no support.

NewLifeNow · 30/12/2021 23:36

For me, the custody is being argued in the divorce proceedings and I’ve been to the police through NCDV website.

They've taken it much more seriously than I expected. They're not taking criminal action against him but they are supporting injunction and occupational order, which will at least give us some peace while the divorce is going through.

Original poster
LifePartyRing · 30/12/2021 23:37

@NewLifeNow

OP, I'm in such a similar position other than the facial bruise. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I am also agonising over whether it's better to have Access to a parent who is half okay and half not okay, than no access at all. They would say they'd rather have him and out up with him, yet at the same time they report not feeling safe if I'm not there to protect them. It's heartbreaking.
I'm sorry you are in a similar place @NewLifeNow

It's so difficult. I've sat on this too long already really. I've written to him to say it's not acceptable and he went mental back at me threatening to never see kids again. I don't care but know they would.

I thought he'd get the message especially with family services sniffing about but no- he's continued since my letter. He thinks he's the fucking law.

What's to do? Happy to have a separate support thread if helpful ?

OP posts:
NewLifeNow · 30/12/2021 23:45

My ex does the opposite to going mental: he tells me what he SHOULD say but doesn't honestly mean it. But he also is settling with rage at the same time, which, when we live in the same house during a divorce, feels scary I'm embarrassed to say.

Weeteeny · 30/12/2021 23:51

CoedenNadolig is right and has good advice.

I've been through this with my boys and their father. With their father having exactly the same response. He was "brought up that way and it never did him any harm" thereby proving that it did.

It is heartbreaking and so so difficult as yes yor DC do love their father I am sure, however the safety of your children is paramount. Consider not just the physical but the emotional impact on your DC. Particularly if their father is justifying their abusive actions.

I spoke to a solicitor and the school. I would have contacted the police however my DC begged me not to.

.

.

Original poster
LifePartyRing · 30/12/2021 23:52

@NewLifeNow

My ex does the opposite to going mental: he tells me what he SHOULD say but doesn't honestly mean it. But he also is settling with rage at the same time, which, when we live in the same house during a divorce, feels scary I'm embarrassed to say.
I find the rage terrifying too.. it's closely linked to my historical trauma so complicated so have to cross check my reactions are in the right place or an over reaction to my past. I was recommended by a solicitor to get a anti molestation order at the point of my divorce. He was never violent to me (I was apparently lucky on that front he said!) but the fear he created was more than enough. Wish I'd done it now.
OP posts:
Original poster
LifePartyRing · 30/12/2021 23:53

@Weeteeny

CoedenNadolig is right and has good advice.

I've been through this with my boys and their father. With their father having exactly the same response. He was "brought up that way and it never did him any harm" thereby proving that it did.

It is heartbreaking and so so difficult as yes yor DC do love their father I am sure, however the safety of your children is paramount. Consider not just the physical but the emotional impact on your DC. Particularly if their father is justifying their abusive actions.

I spoke to a solicitor and the school. I would have contacted the police however my DC begged me not to.

.

.

Thanks for your story. I'm sorry you have been in this position

What did the solicitor suggest out of interest?

OP posts:
NewLifeNow · 31/12/2021 05:09

@Weeteeny

CoedenNadolig is right and has good advice.

I've been through this with my boys and their father. With their father having exactly the same response. He was "brought up that way and it never did him any harm" thereby proving that it did.

It is heartbreaking and so so difficult as yes yor DC do love their father I am sure, however the safety of your children is paramount. Consider not just the physical but the emotional impact on your DC. Particularly if their father is justifying their abusive actions.

I spoke to a solicitor and the school. I would have contacted the police however my DC begged me not to.

.

.

OP, I so much appreciate you starting this thread because I needed to hear what @Weeteeny has said here. You could have been talking about my ex, he has also said he's a good parent because this did him no harm.

I am wracked with guilt as I don't feel enough for my boys, but yet the desire to protect them has been the main reason I’ve stayed all this time. But now we're seeing huge cracks in the ceiling, with both boys adversely affected and needing counselling for their various struggles.

Unlike you, @Weeteeny, I did go to the police but only because I felt I had no choice. Ex is going after the children and I feel sick to my stomach at the idea that if ex gets his way, I won't be there to protect them anymore. Nobody will be. I would be besides myself with worry if that happened. So when I told my solicitor that, more than the house or assets I want to fight for custody of the boys, he referred me to the NCDV website and asked me to educate myself. He also referred me to see a therapist who specialises in DV. I did exactly as he advised and when I contacted NCDV they said I can get the injunction and occupational order to remove him from the house during the divorce. They told me to log it with the police, and that's why I went. It would scare the children shitless to know I did that. I'm not sure I can ever tell them! I wouldn't lie but I am not sure I would want to tell them because they love their Dad and want contact with him. Cruelly, so do I. And that's where the guilt and self doubt comes in: am I enough for the boys? What if a half good, half bad dad is better than no Dad? What if he shaped up and actually ended up being good Dad and not bad Dad at all? What if I’ve made it out to be much worse than it is? So much worry.

The sad thing is, if ex had been more willing to hear me and my concerns, and if he'd have agreed to go along with what I deem suitable for them to start with —especially bearing in mind he tells me I'm fair to a fault — then I'd have carefully navigated this through with him. But instead he was demanding 50:50 even though even practically it wouldn't work out as he'd have to send them to his parents ridiculously early every school day while he's working, and so I felt I had no choice but to block him. Not only is it not okay to get kids up at the crack of dawn like that, but it's also another sign he's not thinking of their best interests. And that's a worry to me, because for as long as he's not thinking of them, the emotional and psychological abuse will continue.

NewLifeNow · 31/12/2021 05:10

@LifePartyRing when you say you wish you'd done the non-mol order, why is that? I'm wondering what difference it made to you not to go down that road.

Kanaloa · 31/12/2021 05:33

It doesn’t really sound like that complex a situation, he’s abusing his kids. Horrifying but not that complex.

Personally I’d have gone straight to the police when my child told me they’d been slapped round the face hard enough to bruise. They might be ‘enmeshed’ but unfortunately kids just don’t always know what’s best for them. Kids who are removed from their parents often desperately want to stay despite it being the worst place for them - the love and attachment felt to abusive parents can be strong.

Whattochoosenow · 31/12/2021 05:39

OP it’s not ok and it doesn’t matter

Whattochoosenow · 31/12/2021 05:40

who or what your exes role is with the achool

Whattochoosenow · 31/12/2021 06:10

*school

Original poster
LifePartyRing · 31/12/2021 09:16

@Kanaloa

It doesn’t really sound like that complex a situation, he’s abusing his kids. Horrifying but not that complex.

Personally I’d have gone straight to the police when my child told me they’d been slapped round the face hard enough to bruise. They might be ‘enmeshed’ but unfortunately kids just don’t always know what’s best for them. Kids who are removed from their parents often desperately want to stay despite it being the worst place for them - the love and attachment felt to abusive parents can be strong.

I think this is what I need to hear. That it's not actually that complex.

It's complex to me because I'm enmeshed too to a certain extent despite no longer living / being married to him. I'm so heavily influenced by my children's positive and negative experiences with him that it gets tricky to see straight

It's straightforward. This is going to be awful not because of what I need to do but my very troubled older child is going to become extremely distressed short term. And the other one too.

OP posts:
CoedenNadolig · 31/12/2021 09:23

Doesn't matter about his influence with the school, the school by law have to take a child safeguarding report/concern seriously and escalate it. Weather they want to believe it or not.

You have a duty here OP. Start making noise, fuck what people think.

I say this as someone who whistleblowed and put their entire career and professional reputation on the line for child protection, nobody would listen to me, till eventually me and the community police officer worked together to collect evidence and ultimately the child was rightfully removed for their safety and well-being.

I retained my career and my reputation and was applauded by a judge for my perserverence. Other agencies didn't come out so well.

Make noise.

Original poster
LifePartyRing · 31/12/2021 09:48

@CoedenNadolig

Doesn't matter about his influence with the school, the school by law have to take a child safeguarding report/concern seriously and escalate it. Weather they want to believe it or not.

You have a duty here OP. Start making noise, fuck what people think.

I say this as someone who whistleblowed and put their entire career and professional reputation on the line for child protection, nobody would listen to me, till eventually me and the community police officer worked together to collect evidence and ultimately the child was rightfully removed for their safety and well-being.

I retained my career and my reputation and was applauded by a judge for my perserverence. Other agencies didn't come out so well.

Make noise.

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so glad you were successful. Well done for making a difference to the children's lives.

When you talk about evidence what kind of thing are you referring to? What would be legitimate?

OP posts:
Borderterrierpuppy · 31/12/2021 09:53

Hi Op I am probably 20 yrs down the road from where you are now. My exh ruled with verbal meltdowns when he felt like it when seeing our two sons. Neither of them have anything to do with him now, but what is worse has been the effect on their mental health and ability to form relationships.
Protect your children from this man the stress of having a parent behave like this is huge for children. X

ElectraBlue · 31/12/2021 10:18

It is not complex: this man is abusing your kids, you nee to protect them. Report him.

I had a similar father and my mother never did anything to protect me. I have been estranged from them for most of my adult life and my childhood/ teenage years left me with horrendous mental scars.