What should I do about my friend? TW* Suicide

[Winecurestiredness]

I got in touch with one of my close friends from about a decade ago before I had children. We we were so close we were 'sisters' not by blood basically, very close and we always called eachother sisters. We both had awful times during our teenage years, we were both in abusive relationships and we both had mental health issues that began in childhood...also some learning difficulties, that meant we were bullied as girls and never felt that we fit in anywhere. She got pregnant at 18 and I had my son at 19. Unfortunately she never quite took to being a mum, had a lot of boyfriends from literally weeks after her son was born, the babys dad was an alcoholic who left her, her mum (the babys grandmother) later adopted the little boy and my friend lived with her, but as her suicide attempts and self harm got worse she had to move out and me and her shared a place for a while. I helped look after her baby and tried to help her bond with him. In the end I had to cut off contact with her after she got quite nasty with me due to a boyfriend of hers admitting he liked me...and ultimately her putting men before the little boy.

I met a lovely man, had two little boys myself and we live a fairly happy life, but unfortunately I do still suffer from depression and low self worth. I have been a fairly isolated SAHM for 9 years now due to my eldest son having been a very premature and sick baby, later autism and other behavioural issues causing problems with childcare (hence being unable to work!). I also had a very serious cancer diagnosis 3 years ago, lymphoma, where it was expected I would die without a stem cell transplant. Thankfully the transplant worked. But it caused a bit of a crisis in me...'a life's too short so fuck it!' One only accompanied with a wine habit and bad PTSD 1 year on. Frustration and still being stuck at home due to DS1, no freedom to 'live my life' after cancer. So wine in the evenings was my escape, somewhere I could be happy. This ultimately lead to me unblocking and contacting my friend. Going over old times, crying with laughter and happiness, and at the sad times she has gone through too

Her son was taken into care and adopted. She isn't allowed any access to him, not even letters. She has been in and out of MH hospitals for suicide attempts, many different boyfriends, in prison for GBH on a mental health worker who tried to restrain her from hurting herself. After her mum heard of us talking again (she apparently called her in excitement) I was warned by her about not letting her be alone in a room with my children, which was bizarre. I asked her why, and if my friend harmed her child or any other child, and all she said was 'no she loves children she would never hurt a child, but it mind land social services on your doorstep if they find out' she said she didn't want to say anything else due to feeling bad going behind her back which would really upset my friend apparently.

My friend apparently has a diagnosis of EUPD (emotionally unstable personality disorder) and she lives in a supported living home. I met up with her just before Christmas. It was lovely, it felt like no time had passed at all and we just accept eachother as we are no judgement..all my other friends are quite snobbish and judgey..they don't see me as an equal..neither does my husband. But this friend really is like a long lost sister. She behaves completely normal. The only thing that's a bit off is that she can sense people looking at her, she is a bit paranoid about others being out to hurt her, and her arms bless her they are covered in big SH scars. They are so big she couldn't carry her shopping on her arms they hurt so much. TBH my heart breaks for her, I want to be there for her as an equal as a friend. My PTSD makes me paranoid too, I barely leave the house and have social anxiety..but when I'm with her I feel confident and happy.

The only thing is the children. If I had no children this friendship wouldn't be an issue. But my autistic DS has for many years threatened to hurt himself if he doesn't get his own way, my youngest is just 5 and is too young to understand SH and I don't really want him to know tbh. My friend is desperate to meet my kids. She bought them Christmas presents, keeps asking if I will come and bring the children and meet her in the town she lives in (we met in a "neutral" town before just in case she got paranoid). My husband has said he doesnt want the children near her due to her MH issues.

I'm really not sure what to do because I don't want to ruin my marriage over this, I know I would never leave my children alone with her (it's common sense, really!) But if it would mean social services and a very unhappy DH I'm not sure I can take the risk. My friend would be very very upset if I tell her this and I'm worried it could lead to her self harming or worse killing herself. What should I do??

People with EUPD/ CPTSD are far more likely to harm themselves than anyone else.

Unless there's something you have not been made aware of, there is no reason why social services would contact you.

My husband has said he doesnt want the children near her due to her MH issues.

Many people are ignorant of mental health. I'm surprised you're not reminding him that you also have a mental health condition, and others as ignorant as him would be saying the same about you.

Please call him out on this.

I don't see any reason not to visit. Keep it short to an hour or 2 with the kids.
Can you meet for lunch at quiet place?
Just be aware of accidently getting drawn in to the effects of her disorder. If you have rescuing or caretaking tendency.

Am I the only person to think two lost and damaged souls coming together again could be a recipe for disaster here? Clearly her mum knows something very serious she's not telling you. Social services don't just turn up on your doorstep for a nice cup of tea if you invite a certain old friend over. There's obviously something gone on here, she might not harm a child but clearly something has happened to give SS and her own mother grave concerns about her being left alone in a room with children. It was alcohol that lead to you seeking out this damaged friendship again. Perhaps that's more where the focus needs to me.

Yes as I said my husband doesnt really see me as an equal. My parents know this too. It's because he had very old fashioned parents with very black and white views 'you're either all there or not right' etc. It's my husband who has a caretaking tendency. He is a bit controlling but not in a nasty or abusive way...more in a sort of parental way...he worries about me putting myself in dangerous situations. In the past he has said to me that I probably couldn't be a single parent due to my own MH issues. I don't SH or feel suicidal. I just have low self esteem, lack of motivation, anxiety and depression

Oh and I do have a job now. So some of that loneliness is starting to subside. I found something, finally, after all these years that is willing to fit around my son. But I really do miss my friend.

But sweetheart, in the kindest possible way time might be playing you a bit. It might be the idea of the friendship as it was you kiss, rather than the friend as she is now. My overwhelming feeling here is to seek a little more in depth with her mum and promise you won't breath a word if she will tell you exactly what she meant when she warned you off getting your own family too involved. There are red flags all over that for me. Please don't get swept away with the rekindled sentimental feelings and ignore them.

Miss not kiss. Damn autocorrect!!

What I mean is I could rekindle a friendship with any number of people from my past, but I wouldn't expect social services to turn up on my doorstep because of it. Clearly so etching very serious has happened that you are not aware of. Talk to her mum. She doesn't have to find out. The fact her mum has warned you not to leave her alone with your children and she herself after just one encounter is now gagging to meet them doesn't sit right at all. If you are going to potentially let your guard down where you could inadvertently put your children in a dangerous situation without realising, then at least get as much information as you can about why her mum warned you this could have serious consequences on your own family. Listen to her.

* There's obviously something gone on here, she might not harm a child but clearly something has happened to give SS and her own mother grave concerns about her being left alone in a room with children.*

^This. I am with your husband on the is.

Say you want child free time with her to escape for a few hours. Don't introduce her to your kids. If she makes an issue of it back right off and see her less. Try and find out what happened. Your dh is right.

Yeah there has been a 10 year gap of not speaking to her. She said when she was in prison she overheard a child molester bragging about something and she hit her because it angered her that anyone could attack a child. That's what made me think, well obviously if she feels like that can't of done anything serious. It might have been a boyfriend, perhaps she didn't know about a past of his or something...she dates A LOT..she seems to always have a different boyfriend, I'm not judging that, but because she has had so many boyfriends it wouldn't suprise me if anything bad in social services eyes was simply by association not by anything she herself did...

With meeting the children.. I do get a sense from her that it's because she is bereft from losing her own son and then finding out she cannot have any more children herself. She refers to herself as my children's aunty. I think she really is having regrets about her son, and we'll I suppose being an auntie is better than nothing.

You simply do not know who this woman is now. You need to some independent research.

Do not introduce your kids to this unknown quantity of a person. Nostalgia and loneliness is impairing your judgment.

Can you be absolutely sure it wasn't her that molested a child? Was she saying the reverse? Was it her that was attacked really? I think gut feelings are there for a reason, and there's a reason why you're questioning it. There is more than one person asking you to be careful OP. Maybe you should listen x

I think there are multiple issues here. It does sound quite likely that your friend is not a very safe person to bring into your children's lives - adults with MH issues and a history of unpredictable behaviour can cause children distress even if they mean no harm. This doesn't mean you should shut your friend out of your life, just that you should take things very slowly before you let her meet your DC.
I also think that you might benefit from more counselling and support for your own MH. Your spouse might have good intentions but if he is excessively controlling and rigid, that might not do you any good - you are an adult and do not have to 'obey' him all the time.

@Winecurestiredness

Yeah there has been a 10 year gap of not speaking to her. She said when she was in prison she overheard a child molester bragging about something and she hit her because it angered her that anyone could attack a child. That's what made me think, well obviously if she feels like that can't of done anything serious. It might have been a boyfriend, perhaps she didn't know about a past of his or something...she dates A LOT..she seems to always have a different boyfriend, I'm not judging that, but because she has had so many boyfriends it wouldn't suprise me if anything bad in social services eyes was simply by association not by anything she herself did...

But you only have her word that's what happened. Please don't be naïve. If you are going to bring this woman into the lives of your husband and children then at least be armed with the facts and speak to her mum first. She might not be capable of harming a child but given she lost her own under traumatic circumstances how do you know she's not capable 9f abducting one? Your protective maternal instincts seem a bit lacking on this. Wise up. I knew someone who once went to prison and fooled an entire community he was inside for GBH. Turned out he was serving a second conviction for sexual assault. Just because you know a person doesn't mean they always tell the truth.

@Winecurestiredness

With meeting the children.. I do get a sense from her that it's because she is bereft from losing her own son and then finding out she cannot have any more children herself. She refers to herself as my children's aunty. I think she really is having regrets about her son, and we'll I suppose being an auntie is better than nothing.

Oh, so no chance she might be planning to snatch a kid then? Jesus Christ wake up!

You don't know who this woman is now op, you know who she was when you were both going through some shit.

I wouldn't let her meet the kids purely because You don't know who she is, what she's done or what she's capable of.

If her mum has warned you not to let her near your children alone alarm bells would be ringing.

That's not to say you won't change your mind in the future but as it stands right now I wouldn't let her see the kids. Maybe in a years time when you've gotten to know who she is.

There's no easy way to put this but if your instincts to protect your children and keep the the hell away from her after the warning you've been given isn't getting through to you then there must be something fundamentally wrong with your comprehension of risk. If the fact you've just met her once for the first time in ten years and she's already calling herself your kids auntie isn't screaming out 'weird' to you, then nothing will. Good luck because I have a feeling you're going to ignore your husband, ignore all the advice on here, not speak to her mum to find out the full facts and stupidly give her access to your kids regardless. In which case I guess we'll be seeing you on here again in a few weeks when some disaster has happened involving social services and your kids.

Bloody hell, do not let your children near her. I'm not sure you should be around her either but definitely not your kids. If she had no interest in her own kid, then why should she see yours?

I’m sorry that you and your friend have both suffered so much trauma in your lives. The contact with her clearly helps you feel connected and understood at a really deep level of shared experience. People with an EUPD diagnosis usually have enormous difficulty in regulating their feelings in response to others and may oscillate between idealising someone and believing them to be a terrible person. They may also struggle with receiving kindness from others yet have very intense feelings for them and want them around. It’s a double whammy for them and for anyone trying to be a good friend to them. Your worries about the impact on your friend’s mental health if you limit contact with your children suggest that, much as you love your friend, you are finding her draining, too.

As pp have said, tread very carefully around contact. What could happen is that she tries to use your children to meet her emotional needs (and this can be totally outside of awareness and unintentional). She may have been involved with someone who was a danger to children and that accounts for the SS involvement. Her problems with anger may be another reason. You don’t have enough information at this stage on which to base a decision.

What about you? You don’t deserve to live in a situation where you feel looked down on because of your mental health difficulties. You’ve survived your own traumas, and that is deserving of respect. Is there anyone in your life who treats you as an equal and who listens without trying to control you? Do you have access to talking therapies?

The fact her mum contacted you and warned you would scream alarm bells at me.

All the info you have on her is things she has told you. She could be telling the truth or 100% lies.

I don’t blame your husband for not wanting your children to have anything to do with her. Prison, violence, social service. Involvement, losing a child and very visible and ongoing self harm issues don’t sound like a good combination with children.

Read back what you wrote and if you were reading this about someone else what would you think and say to them ?

What are you doing to deal with your PTSD, are you actively seeking treatment and recovery? This is not a safe person for you, or your family, your judgement here around keeping all of you safe physically and emotionally is massively questionable. Bless her? She's so unstable she can't live on her own as an adult woman and has been to prison. Raise your boundaries, safeguard yourself and your family. If something happens it will be you that SS look at, your decision making, even though you've been warned about her.

Please step away from this friendship and get some counselling for yourself and build yourself a more positive future now you have a new job. She seems intent on seeing your dc which is quite alarming considering she must know she's not allowed any contact with children. Social services and the courts haven't said this for nothing. Plus she's been in prison? What for? Please put your kids first. You can never undo it if something happened to them or if social services get involved, believe me that's a whole new level of stress you don't want in your life.